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Shadowrun Shadowrun: Hong Kong Pre-Release Discussion [GO TO NEW THREAD]

How much HBS is going to get for his Hong Kong campaign ?


  • Total voters
    161
  • Poll closed .
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Messages
1,387
Location
Australia
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
i'm more puzzled by the claim that writing a single story for a 20h campaign is fundamentally superior to writing two connected stories of 15h and 5h length. i mean HBS already got a clear vision of what the main story + companion side stuff of the HK campaign should be, further extending it by 5h would just encourage them to stuff some filler content into it imo. and in the end it's about the strength of the story itself not it's length.

I agree with what you're saying especially the strength of the story not its length. I like what HBS has done so far and I'll continue to support them as long as they keep doing it. Shorter games suit me better than longer ones these days.

However, the way you worded this got me thinking. It should still be possible to do a 30-40hr, or longer, game that has no filler content though, right? More characters, and a more complex story?

I've always thought filler was to some degree corner cutting or even laziness on a devs part. Is this thought erroneous in some way?
 

Gord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
7,049
However, the way you worded this got me thinking. It should still be possible to do a 30-40hr, or longer, game that has no filler content though, right? More characters, and a more complex story?

I've always thought filler was to some degree corner cutting or even laziness on a devs part. Is this thought erroneous in some way?

Of course it's possible, but it will surely be more difficult and require more resources. Although the definition of filler content may vary with different players.

In he case of the HK kickstarter, I suspect their main reasoning is that they want to release the main campaign on schedule.
The additional mini-campaign that way can be postponed until that has been shipped out.
 
Joined
Jun 20, 2014
Messages
906
Location
Malaysia
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
i'm more puzzled by the claim that writing a single story for a 20h campaign is fundamentally superior to writing two connected stories of 15h and 5h length. i mean HBS already got a clear vision of what the main story + companion side stuff of the HK campaign should be, further extending it by 5h would just encourage them to stuff some filler content into it imo. and in the end it's about the strength of the story itself not it's length.

I agree with what you're saying especially the strength of the story not its length. I like what HBS has done so far and I'll continue to support them as long as they keep doing it. Shorter games suit me better than longer ones these days.

However, the way you worded this got me thinking. It should still be possible to do a 30-40hr, or longer, game that has no filler content though, right? More characters, and a more complex story?

I've always thought filler was to some degree corner cutting or even laziness on a devs part. Is this thought erroneous in some way?

Very hard to do so because a story can only go for so long without needed to be wrapped up.
More is just added fan fiction tier stuff and bullshit nobody interested in.
This is worse in games and movies because you can tell a story in 10 minutes what takes 5 to 10 hours to read, even for fast readers.
If you believe otherwise and feel that it is easy as hell, feel free to prove it by making your own game.
Nobody will stop you.
 

zero29

Arbiter
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Messages
136
...
More is just added fan fiction tier stuff and bullshit nobody interested in.
This is worse in games and movies because you can tell a story in 10 minutes what takes 5 to 10 hours to read, even for fast readers.
...
tell that to peter jackson :lol:
 
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Messages
1,387
Location
Australia
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Of course it's possible, but it will surely be more difficult and require more resources. Although the definition of filler content may vary with different players.

In he case of the HK kickstarter, I suspect their main reasoning is that they want to release the main campaign on schedule.
The additional mini-campaign that way can be postponed until that has been shipped out.

I was thinking along the same lines.

Very hard to do so because a story can only go for so long without needed to be wrapped up.
More is just added fan fiction tier stuff and bullshit nobody interested in.
This is worse in games and movies because you can tell a story in 10 minutes what takes 5 to 10 hours to read, even for fast readers.
If you believe otherwise and feel that it is easy as hell, feel free to prove it by making your own game.
Nobody will stop you.

Oh, no, I don't believe otherwise. I've done a bit of research into game development. I don't think I'll be attempting to make a game in this lifetime.
 
Self-Ejected

Ulminati

Kamelåså!
Patron
Joined
Jun 18, 2010
Messages
20,317
Location
DiNMRK

Sheepherder

Augur
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
657
I don't much care about the added campaign. I would have preferred an "improved AI" goal. Cyber, magic and matrix will be improved, but AI is still stupid.
Make the AI generally more aggressive; fix npc casters; allow AI to use grenades against single foes; have AI concentrate fire to take out party members faster; allow enemy teams to take actions out of order; have them use combat stims; allow AI to use all their AP etc. etc.
It will be a free 4 hour dlc with bloated skill checks and tanky enemies.
 

zero29

Arbiter
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Messages
136
...
It will be a free 4 hour dlc with bloated skill checks...
still, it will be interesting to see what they'll come up with exactly. and nothing against higher skill checks, i just leveled the aztech pyramid and i haven't encountered a single stat/skill check so far in the game that was outside the racial limitations of my troll. not a single situation where e.g. a decking skill or charisma of >6 would have been neccessary.
...and tanky enemies.
i'm not a fan of hp bloat, too, but at least once i'd love to see my team pitted against 3-4 melee trolls with 17 body and 15 strength. just to shake things up a bit...
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
I don't much care about the added campaign. I would have preferred an "improved AI" goal. Cyber, magic and matrix will be improved, but AI is still stupid.
Make the AI generally more aggressive; fix npc casters; allow AI to use grenades against single foes; have AI concentrate fire to take out party members faster; allow enemy teams to take actions out of order; have them use combat stims; allow AI to use all their AP etc. etc.
It will be a free 4 hour dlc with bloated skill checks and tanky enemies.

Great suggestion. This would also make lower difficulties more desirable, since the game only propose a moderate challenge on very hard at the moment sadly.
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
...
It will be a free 4 hour dlc with bloated skill checks...
still, it will be interesting to see what they'll come up with exactly. and nothing against higher skill checks, i just leveled the aztech pyramid and i haven't encountered a single stat/skill check so far in the game that was outside the racial limitations of my troll. not a single situation where e.g. a decking skill or charisma of >6 would have been neccessary.
...and tanky enemies.
i'm not a fan of hp bloat, too, but at least once i'd love to see my team pitted against 3-4 melee trolls with 17 body and 15 strength. just to shake things up a bit...

Well if used sparingly HP bloat can be ok. That cyberzombie troll in Dragonfall could have also been a great surprise boss in a way, maybe with the option that your decker dukes it out with an enemy decker to take control of it in the Matrix while your team in real space tries to avoid it as much as possible.
 

krist2

Augur
Patron
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
164
Codex 2013 Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2 Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
Here's a few quick responses for you. Note that even if I didn't respond to your HEY HBS! comment, I did read it. I can't respond honestly to every "wouldn't it be cool" ideas but we're listening.

Mitch

>>>assets from from the previous two games in the SR:HK tools
That’s the plan.

>>>tip of the hat to Mr. Andrew McIntosh
He’s a good chap, that one!

>>>expanded magic vs. balance
You’re right. It’s too early to talk about that but I have confidence in the design team.

@daquack - Welcome to the shadows!

>>>DF & DMS chars imported into mini-campaign
Not in scope.
 

krist2

Augur
Patron
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
164
Codex 2013 Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2 Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
It has now reached 700K
Revamped Matrix: Art and Gameplay!


Someone took the 2,5K backer level, so can't be 100% sure it's serious. But one can hope :)
 

Gord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
7,049
Even if most of the high-level backers back down now, they would still make the Matrix stretchgoal within the next couple of days.
:incline:
 

Diablo169

Arcane
Joined
Oct 20, 2012
Messages
1,270
Location
Grim Midlands
The Matrix Unlocked

Huzzah!
Now that we’ve hit our funding goal for the Revamped Matrix, we thought you’d like to hear a bit more about what we’re planning. As we said, our goal is to evolve the gameplay along with the look & feel of the Matrix in Shadowrun: Hong Kong. Overall, we want the decker’s gameplay to feel like dangerous legwork, investigation, and hacking. One of the ways we hope to achieve this is with increased opportunities for risk & reward. The more chances you take outside the scope of achieving your core objectives, the more potential benefit to you… and the greater chance of being discovered. Combat will still be a factor, but it won’t be your entire Matrix experience.

To that end, we’ve created a list of new Intrusion Countermeasures (IC) that we plan to add to the game. The new IC is intended to expand Matrix gameplay beyond simple combat mechanics by adding new types of interactions. All have been designed on paper and reviewed by our engineers and artists. Once they’ve been proven out through prototyping and we’re confident in our ability to execute on them, we’ll share them in a future Backer Update.
As with DMS and DF, you’ll still break into a corporation's secure local systems during a run to gain access to a variety of tactical objectives but there will also be places in the story where you’ll travel through distinct areas of cyberspace to “sculpted systems” - distinct digital representations of their owners.

By revising the basic look and sound of the Matrix and creating small “set pieces” of sculpted systems, we hope to give you a better feeling of traveling through cyberspace (for illicit purposes, of course). Concept art for our updated Matrix environment, including an image of a sculpted system will appear in a future Backer Update.


Stay tuned!
 

RPGMaster

Savant
Joined
Feb 23, 2011
Messages
703
...
More is just added fan fiction tier stuff and bullshit nobody interested in.
This is worse in games and movies because you can tell a story in 10 minutes what takes 5 to 10 hours to read, even for fast readers.
...
tell that to peter jackson :lol:

Someone already did: https://tolkieneditor.wordpress.com/

(Remember kids: Torrenting is wrong and you shouldn't do it).

4 hours? A decent editor should be able to get it down to 2.5.
 

imweasel

Guest
So there were complaints that the early stretch goals "should have been in the game anyway". The matrix goal was probably their final aim, but just because they guaranteed an improved matrix at $700k doesn't mean they can't further improve on the matrix (and core game) with $800k or $900k. But now, faced with demands for more goals, they've added a free mini-campaign to backers which will come out later, giving them time after the release to focus on the "high-karma" campaign which could pave the way for longer projects in future.
I would have also prefered a "MOAR BETTER EVERYTHING" stretch goal myself, but more improvements and content require a larger scope and HBS isn't increasing the scope of the game any further. Shadowrun: Hong Kong is fully funded.

That is the reason for the DLC stretch goal.
 

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