Shadowrun Shadowrun: Hong Kong Pre-Release Discussion [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Abu Antar]

It'll be interesting to see how they handle a campaign with high level karma characters.

 

[Diablo169]

I like this stretch-goal. Mostly because I don't need to add any more money to my pledge and I get an extra 4-5 hours game-play.

:kwafuckyeah:

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Why the new campaign? Why not just make the game longer? If new missions takes place few months after the original story climax, just put a cutscene between the two no need for a different campaign.

 

[Transfiguring Roar]

It'll be interesting to see how they handle a campaign with high level karma characters.

Good point. There is a karma ceiling.

Why the new campaign? Why not just make the game longer? If new missions takes place few months after the original story climax, just put a cutscene between the two no need for a different campaign.

It might be a good idea to keep it a separate campaign so people can skip the main campaign if they like. A bit like NWN OC -> HotU, or NWN2 OC -> MotB, not to imply that Hong Kong will be no good! I'm sure it'll be on par with DF-DC at the least.

 

[Infinitron]

Why the new campaign? Why not just make the game longer? If new missions takes place few months after the original story climax, just put a cutscene between the two no need for a different campaign.

Hint: Three letter word, starts with 'D', ends with 'C'.

 

[Transfiguring Roar]

That's a good point, 'tron.

 

[SarcasticUndertones]

UPDATE: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/webeharebrained/shadowrun-hong-kong/posts/1114314

What a fucking stupid stretch goal.

"Have a second really short campaign." WHY????? Just make the main game the best you can. Why set yourself up in a situation where you're going to have to split your ideas.., and frankly, any idea good enough as a 'thank you' to the backers to stick into a second campaign SHOULD BE PUT IN THE FUCKING MAIN ONE..

HBS are doing good things with their game, but this idea is brain dead... AND it'll cost $300,000.. my fucking arse it will.

That stretch could have been for better mechanics or even an astral plain.. but this??????

 

[Infinitron]

Or is it? See my previous post.

 

[Abu Antar]

Hint: Three letter word, starts with 'D', ends with 'C'.

To be fair, they have been very good to their backers. I don't give a crap how they do it as long as backers get it for free. I don't begrudge them having that as DLC because it won't be anywhere near complete when the first HK campaign ships.

 

[Infinitron]

To be fair, they have been very good to their backers. I don't give a crap how they do it as long as backers get it for free. I don't begrudge them having that as DLC because it won't be anywhere near complete when the first HK campaign ships.

Remember that Dragonfall was also DLC. We have bitten of the forbidden fruit already...

 

[Wizfall]

Why the new campaign? Why not just make the game longer? If new missions takes place few months after the original story climax, just put a cutscene between the two no need for a different campaign.

Time.
No matter the money they got, HBS can't make too much new contents in a so short time.

 

[Abu Antar]

Remember that Dragonfall was also DLC. We have bitten of the forbidden fruit already...

And it tasted so good!

 

[SarcasticUndertones]

Or is it? See my previous post.

OK, that didn't dawn on me.

I still think it's a stupid idea though.

...and good luck to those excited to fund their own DLC.

Time.
No matter the money they got, HBS can't make too much new contents in a so short time.

Asking for an extra £300,000 to fund a 4-5 hr piece of DLC that DOESN'T include new assets is fucking outrageous

Remember that Dragonfall was also DLC. We have bitten of the forbidden fruit already...

They didn't ask their backers to fund that though.

 

[Transfiguring Roar]

Or is it? See my previous post.

You mean free for backers? Could still work as a low priced DLC post kickstarter, as opposed to full price standalone that DF-DC is. Still think it's a decent thought, 'tron. They get the funding for it so it doesn't cost them anything, and if they sell 20k copies post kickstarter at an average of $5 in the first year (not likely, I know, just throwing numbers out), that's 100k for the future. And at the very least it isn't horse armor.

This reminds me of something... http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...ith-more-regular-releases.96340/#post-3680637

I tried to start a conversation with Giph00, but got no response. Last activity was yesterday.

Asking for an extra £300,000 to fund a 4-5 hr piece of DLC that DOESN'T include new assets is fucking outrageous

Spread over 20k+ backers, average of $15 for a backer if 20k. Not that big a deal if it means helping keep them in business and producing more campaigns as well as expanded gameplay such as stealth and astral plane. Not to mention that they've stated how expensive stealth and astral plane would be to implement...

 

[SarcasticUndertones]

Spread over 20k+ backers, average of $15 for a backer if 20k. Not that big a deal if it means helping keep them in business and producing more campaigns as well as expanded gameplay such as stealth and astral plane. Not to mention that they've stated how expensive stealth and astral plane would be to implement...

It doesn't matter how it's spread, it's still asking £300,000 for 4-5 hrs of DLC.. there's nothing anyone could say that would make that right in my book.

That kind of money should be put into the mechanics or for making more assets..not for throwing together a few hours of gameplay from an editor.

As I said, HBS have earned a lot of good will, but this stupidity is a black mark.

Screw how much stealth and astral plain would cost, the game isn't complete without them that's where the money should go first, not some halfassed mini campaign..

The stretch should have been for the astral plain and if they couldn't implement that for $300,000, considering how much the entire engine cost to build, then they're doing something wrong.

 

[Abu Antar]

Maybe they have no clue how to make it good. I don't blame them for not wanting to say that because how good would that sound during an ongoing Kickstarter campaign? Maybe they aren't sure how to pull it off in a good fashion no matter the moeny they get? Who knows. I only know that I wouldn't want those to be included (I do want them) if they are half assed and just in because people were begging for it.

 

[almondblight]

Well, we're also talking a 6-7 month production schedule where they're updating a bunch of systems (matrix, magic, bio) in addition to creating a full campaign. It seems kind of idiotic to say "use the money to rush some broken stealth and astral plane mechanics and shoehorn it into the game just because." A mini-campaign let's them stay close to their August release target.

Though I do wonder - if the game isn't going to be delayed, how much longer than the initial 12-hour estimate will it be?

 

[Bleed the Man]

It's pretty clear that they don't want to go crazy with Hong Kong. I find this new mini-campaign stretch goal pretty damn good. Making the base game even larger with all the extra funding it's a very dangerous enterprise. You can fuck a lot your schedule by doing this, and also the paicing or even endanger the storyline (also, it would mean a notorious delay of the game). They have this campaign very clearly outlined, so adding a new campaign, as short as it might be, with a new storyline, is a good way to put all this extra funding to good use.

I was expecting before this kickstarter started something more ambicious, with stealth, astral plane, and all the good stuff, but when they reveled the inicial goal, and after all what they said until now, it's obvious that they just want to do for now a Dragonfall Director's Cut 2.0, which means tons of polishing mechanics and very small new features (although very useful, like being able to toggle turn based mode outside combat), and a small augmented scope. They didn't want to go crazy and make another Shadowrun Returns like experience (basically, falling short), so they kept their progression a bit more focused and controled.

Not a bad thing if you ask me.

 

[tuluse]

Hint: Three letter word, starts with 'D', ends with 'C'.

You also have to go up to $35 tier to get it.

(kickstarter dlc)

 

[Bubbles]

Asking for an extra £300,000 to fund a 4-5 hr piece of DLC that DOESN'T include new assets is fucking outrageous

We've gone over this before: HBS's play times are usually extremely conservative. They indicated a 12 hour play time for Dragonfall and that ended up taking about 30-40 hours to complete. It's likely that the "mini campaign" will last about 15 hours, which is about as long as The Banner Saga or Blackguards 2, and slightly longer than the SRR OC.

 

[Transfiguring Roar]

It doesn't matter how it's spread, it's still asking £300,000 for 4-5 hrs of DLC.. there's nothing anyone could say that would make that right in my book.

[Edit - ninja'd] It's way to early to say if it will end up being 4-5 hours, and it's not likely to be less than 4-5 hours. It's your call if it's not right in your books, but you sound a bit unreasonable. See my last point as to why...

Not that I'm entirely against what you're saying though, because I have said before that some of the stretch goals don't look good to me either. The companion quests for 50k look weak to me as stretch goals - they could have just as easily said the game was funded at 200k, hidden two of the quest stretch goals and put Gaichu and his quest together as a single stretch goal for 100k. As if they weren't going to include the quests - after what they did with DF-DC - or as if those goals weren't going to be funded. Those stretch goals look like real bullshit to me.

That kind of money should be put into the mechanics or for making more assets..not for throwing together a few hours of gameplay from an editor.

I imagine there'll be some new assets with it, it being a high-karma run.

Screw how much stealth and astral plain would cost, the game isn't complete without them that's where the money should go first, not some halfassed mini campaign..

The stretch should have been for the astral plain and if they couldn't implement that for $300,000, considering how much the entire engine cost to build, then they're doing something wrong.

They're running a business. The money should go to what they can deliver and will help keep them in business. And that's what they seem to be doing.

The game isn't complete without them? The game is complete if they implement everything that they plan to implement, in my books. Also, do you run a game dev business? Have you been observing kickstarter developments? I think with everything we've seen from kickstarter so far has made it abundantly clear that making games on a budget is difficult and that even non-AAA titles cost a shit load to make. Have you done a full cost analysis of what it would cost HBS to implement stealth and/or astral plane?

You also have to go up to $35 tier to get it.

(kickstarter dlc)

$15 and up on the graphic???

 

[SarcasticUndertones]

They're running a business. The money should go to what they can deliver and will help keep them in business. And that's what they seem to be doing.

Yeah.. not if it's $300,000 for a halfassed 4-5 hr mini effort. That is UNJUSTIFIABLE.

 

[Transfiguring Roar]

Yeah, I know it looks bad. I get that. Especially compared to some other, smaller kickstarters. These guys aren't that small though, and it's probably a more realistic estimation for a mini-campaign being made by a company HBS' size.

It prob won't be half-assed either - their content is decent at the least.

 

[SarcasticUndertones]

Yeah, I know it looks bad. I get that. Especially compared to some other, smaller kickstarters. These guys aren't that small though, and it's probably a more realistic estimation for a mini-campaign being made by a company HBS' size.

It prob won't be half-assed either - their content is decent at the least.

Considering that they are only aiming for a 20 hr main campaign they don't have a leg to stand on trying to justify a separate 4-5 hrs module.

It should never have been separate, there should just have been one big campaign, never mind asking for half again of their original goal for a smaller product.

I trust their ability to tell a story and to make a game... but I certainly don't trust their business acumen, not if that's what they think makes good sense.

 

[Lhynn]

Maybe they want to do something speshul with the separate campaign, a new mechanic perhaps.