Shadowrun Shadowrun: Hong Kong Pre-Release Discussion [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Jezal_k23]

Fair enough, I suppose I'll get them and back their new game as soon as I can.

Thanks everyone.

 

[Sykar]

I wasn't aware it had cellphone versions.

Tablets actually.

 

[Tigranes]

Just goes to show length is so variable for everybody. I can't imagine 30 hours on Dragonfall - maybe if I was restarting many missions multiple times after dying horribly (which I did a couple of times), I was reading every dialogue option at a pretty slow rate, and... I don't know. I suppose that's why some people literally spend 100+ hours on BG2?

Anyway, yeah, Dragonfall is worth a try, DMS not really at this point, since HK will likely at least be better than DMS.

 

[Starwars]

Dragonfall director's cut took me 23 hours with very little AFK time and a reload here and there. I'd say that's a damn good playtime considering how much I enjoyed myself through it in a consistent manner. It feels very focused to me.

I also think that's a strength of the hub/mission design they started. I posted about this before but I wasn't sold on it in DMS, but I think it really came into its own with DF. There is very little boring downtime or a feeling of being "spread thin". It feels like each mission had care and thought put into it (still vary in quality of course). I think that's a strength in development to have the game set up like that, I think it invites a certain focus.

Definitely wouldn't want every game to use that approach but I think it worked extremely well in DF.

 

[Infinitron]

I don't know. I suppose that's why some people literally spend 100+ hours on BG2?

They spend more time deliberating on what they're going to do next. This can be especially time-consuming in more complex games (like BG2) where you can spend a lot of time considering how to optimally equip your party. Who should wear what? What should I buy? Etc.

If you don't care about that stuff, if you just slap on equipment as you find it, and choose dialogue options and travel from place to place more-or-less on a whim, then your playthroughs can be considerably shorter.

 

[Gord]

DF: DC took me more than 30 hours according to Steam, the number is probably inflated a little bit by restarting once or twice with different characters (never went beyond Harfeld Manor, though) and then reloads due to me sucking at playing with a melee adept, checking out some alternative approaches here and there and one or two bugs.
I have to admit I'm a bit surprised myself that it apparently took me so long, though.

 

[Tigranes]

They spend more time deliberating on what they're going to do next. This can be especially time-consuming in more complex games (like BG2) where you can spend a lot of time considering how to optimally equip your party. Who should wear what? What should I buy? Etc.

If you don't care about that stuff, if you just slap on equipment as you find it, and choose dialogue options and travel from place to place more-or-less on a whim, then your playthroughs can be considerably shorter.

Like many other RPG players, I like to choose optimum paths, I like to check every dialogue option, I like to make sure I know all the options before I choose which mission, etc - and sometimes reload to find out. I think a lot of the variation actually comes from the little things.

It was only when I played MP with some of my friends, and then observed them playing games at their physical home, that I realised how different so many aspects of habitual game operations can be. I read quickly, and since dialogue like Dragonfall isn't particularly unpredictable, I think I spend, what, a second or less on many of the dialogue nodes? I see some other people read it as slowly as if you were reading it out loud. Some people I imagine might go to a shop, check out some gear, go back to the safehouse to check out the stash. Some people like to click on a grenade and literally see what the target AOE would be and then do that with other weapons, whereas I'll rely on memory more or less what's going to be more effective. And of course my threshold for "fuck it, I'm not running all the way back / reloading for this" may be lower than others. I think little things like that add up.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Just goes to show length is so variable for everybody. I can't imagine 30 hours on Dragonfall - maybe if I was restarting many missions multiple times after dying horribly (which I did a couple of times), I was reading every dialogue option at a pretty slow rate, and... I don't know. I suppose that's why some people literally spend 100+ hours on BG2?

Anyway, yeah, Dragonfall is worth a try, DMS not really at this point, since HK will likely at least be better than DMS.

You need to wait around for the romance triggers to kick in, so that accounts for a lot of them bg2 gameplay hours

 

[twincast]

RPS: The impression I got from the first Shadowrun Returns was that it was almost stuck on the fence between being a roleplaying systems game and a narrative game. By this point how much more sure are you about what it should be first and foremost?

Jordan: No, our goal was always to have very rich narratives. That’s what excites Mitch and I, we love that storytelling. I think as you said though, the challenge was that we needed to build a strong backbone to the engine and we knew we wanted strong tactical interaction, but we were also developing this editor so that players could develop their own stories. That is something we were excited to enable, because Shadowrun as a tabletop RPG has always been about everybody being able to tell their stories, not just us. It’s a shared universe. But we frankly underestimated how much extra load that was going to be to do, to create a releasable editor. So the time for us to tell our story got shorter, so what ended up in the first Shadowrun returns was maybe 40% of what we had already written. That’s also why it was more linear than we intended.

Mitch: Sorry, it was actually 25% [laughs]. I went back and did the maths.

25%?! I am well aware that there's always hefty cuts, but Beetlejuice, that game is in need of a Director's Cut.

 

[tuluse]

I've spent 80s in BG2 just finishing up chapter 4, don't think I finished that playthrough so I can't say the full play length.

SRR took me about 14 hours.

I haven't finished Dragonfall, and I put about 18 hours into it.

DA:O took me 50+ hours (can't remember exact length now).

 

[Sykar]

I've spent 80s in BG2 just finishing up chapter 4, don't think I finished that playthrough so I can't say the full play length.

SRR took me about 14 hours.

I haven't finished Dragonfall, and I put about 18 hours into it.

DA:O took me 50+ hours (can't remember exact length now).

And how much of the UGC did you play?

 

[DeepOcean]

Correct me then, because I honestly just want to learn about the game, so I can buy it or not / back this project.

The game is shorter than something like Wasteland 2 but your time will be alot better spent. Each mission on Dragonfall has an unique thing that make them really fun, the game is 12 hs to 20hs long depending on your play style and difficulty. You will have something like 13 missions, some longer and others shorter but most really well done just don't go expecting an epic rpg as outside the fun combat encounters and a nice atmosphere, the game doesn't has much going on in terms of C&C and has somewhat simplistic character creation options and options on equipment.

 

[tuluse]

And how much of the UGC did you play?

Almost none. Every module seems to have split opinions on it, and I've spent time playing other games.

 

[Jezal_k23]

On a similar note, I've also read some of the Dragonfall Codex review, which mentioned both games are fairly easy even though DF is a little harder. It also mentioned a limit on the number of actions the enemies can take, even though they have leftover AP, which sounded pretty fucked up to me. Has this been fixed or does it remain the same today? Are the games still too easy?

 

[tuluse]

On a similar note, I've also read some of the Dragonfall Codex review, which mentioned both games are fairly easy even though DF is a little harder. It also mentioned a limit on the number of actions the enemies can take, even though they have leftover AP, which sounded pretty fucked up to me. Has this been fixed or does it remain the same today? Are the games still too easy?

On very hard they provide a challenge about equal to what normal should be. Not that hard, but provides some interesting scenarios. There is no reason to ever play below very hard.

 

[Bubbles]

There is no reason to ever play below very hard.

Unless you're playing it for the story.

 

[Greatness]

Well if he's worried about the game being too easy then he probably isn't in it only for the story. I played Dragonfall at VH for my first run (I had previously spent a handful of hours in SR:R) and found it acceptable. I've seen some complaints about the difficulty settings hit chance modifiers unbalancing certain character types, but I guess that goes both ways.

 

[Roguey]

My Dragonfall:OR dumpbox stats say I spent 5.7 hours in combat, 6.95 in friendly conditions, and 6.15 are "lost" (paused and in menus?).

It also mentioned a limit on the number of actions the enemies can take, even though they have leftover AP, which sounded pretty fucked up to me.

Boss-level AI uses up all its AP, but they only put it on bosses of course.

 

[Infinitron]

UPDATE: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/webeharebrained/shadowrun-hong-kong/posts/1114314

 

[Ivan]

 

[Drax]

Nice!

 

[Transfiguring Roar]

Nice! I was hoping for another campaign, I like this high-karma run idea, so I'm in at the $75 tier.

 

[roshan]

Seems like they would much rather produce more content and improve existing systems than add new systems like astral plane or stealth.

 

[Transfiguring Roar]

If they make enough mullah off of Hong Kong then perhaps a following kickstarter can be 'co-funded' for the astral plane also, but for 750k instead of the 1.5 mill they've quoted. Leaves us wanting something in the future too - I think it's just smart business.

 

[Branm]

Seems like they would much rather produce more content and improve existing systems than add new systems like astral plane or stealth.

Well they had a hard time implementing a save system...so no surprises there....