Shadowrun Shadowrun: Dragonfall - Director's Cut

[Rake]

While I somewhat agree, it is still 1000% better than ANYTHING BioWare/Bethesda/CD Project have done.

It is like HBS discovered cRPG mechanics, and continue to work and include them. They are no where near as good as say what Obsidian does crpg mechanics wise, but at least they are trying. And if they continue this trend, hell yes. From a tablet company that makes (basically) casual action games, these are some good steps forward. Just please HBS, keep going forward AND GIVE US A NEW CAMPAIGN LIKE THIS.

What the fuck? Since when is Obsidian considered good in case of "crpg mechanics"? I love the studio, but good gameplay designers they are not...

crpg mechanics =! core gameplay

In an interactive medium, which CRPG no doubt is, the IMPLEMENTATION of mechanics is what counts in the end. And that is, especially in CRPGs, part of core gameplay. If Jaesun simply means C&C (in the most vulgar form), then I agree, Obsidian's games are reactive.

And the implemantation of CRPG mechnics in Obsidian's games are great. The things Obsidian regurarly fucks up, (camera, UI, shooting, combat in general, stability and bugginess of the game) are not CRPG mechanics

 

[Infinitron]

What appears as a low hit chance actually accounts for several unpredictable factors in the "real event", like dodging, recoil, nerves, luck, etc.

I can accept that, but if I have a team of professional Shadowrunners who couldn't even hit a barn door from less than 5 feet away, I just gotta question their competence.

You're right; it's a very brute force way of increasing the game's difficulty. But it does work, and it's way better than the DMS cake walk. Take it for what it is, use buffs to increase your hit chance and soldier on - your characters will get stronger later on.

 

[Shannow]

ds3 had good core gameplay,

 

[Athelas]

The things Obsidian regurarly fucks up, (camera, UI, shooting, combat in general, stability and bugginess of the game) are not CRPG mechanics

They're game mechanics though.

 

[SuicideBunny]

ds3 had good core gameplay,

what? for a coop hns it really did.

 

[DeepOcean]

I have not played DF before, only the base game, but I am also under the impression that it is much more difficult. Either that, or I suck at this game.

In the very first run I had to restart completely because I had used up so many medkits that I could not survive the 7 rounds in the basement. Second run was also harder than I thought. I am barely able to hit anything, percentages usually are about 20% while my own team members constantly get hit with criticals. I also don't really understand the flanking mechanic, it sometimes seems strange what counts as flanking and what doesn't.

To me the fights are still kinda easy, harder than it was before but not impossible. The flanking mechanics, on my experience, work this way:
The target is on front of your selected character and is behind heavy/medium cover, the target gets cover bonus and best of cases you are only going to do normal damage and, most of time, half damage and with enemies having armor, your damage will be low.
Cover only offer you protection if it is exacty between you and the enemy that is shooting, if the enemy is on your right or left (it doesn't need to be totally to your right or left) and the enemy can shoot you without the bullet passing through cover to get you, you are now being flanked by that particular enemy and are going to receive criticals like crazy from him with damage ranging from normal to double. If you hide behind a single box (doesn't matter if it is light, medium or hard cover.), it is extremely easy to be flanked as the enemy just need to move a bit to the left or right to shoot directly at you, ignoring the box.
If your character is stunned, prepare to be butt raped by flank shots as he is considerated out of cover.
Any character out of cover is automaticaly on flanked state and has a big chance of being raped by flank shots by everyone nearby.
Because a character is on flanked state, it doesn't mean all attacks are going to be flank attacks (but with high weapon skills is almost guarantee you gona rape an enemy that is out of cover) but there is a big chance.
You don't need to be exactly glued to cover to be protected by it, if the bullet has to pass through cover to get you, you won't be flanked.

 

[Rake]

The things Obsidian regurarly fucks up, (camera, UI, shooting, combat in general, stability and bugginess of the game) are not CRPG mechanics

They're game mechanics though.

Never said the opposite, nor i consider Obsidian great game makers. Outside of RPGs and maybe adventure games, the studio could not design a good game to save their lives.
I like them because (with the exception of strategy), i don't play other types of games.

 

[eremita]

While I somewhat agree, it is still 1000% better than ANYTHING BioWare/Bethesda/CD Project have done.

It is like HBS discovered cRPG mechanics, and continue to work and include them. They are no where near as good as say what Obsidian does crpg mechanics wise, but at least they are trying. And if they continue this trend, hell yes. From a tablet company that makes (basically) casual action games, these are some good steps forward. Just please HBS, keep going forward AND GIVE US A NEW CAMPAIGN LIKE THIS.

What the fuck? Since when is Obsidian considered good in case of "crpg mechanics"? I love the studio, but good gameplay designers they are not...

crpg mechanics =! core gameplay

In an interactive medium, which CRPG no doubt is, the IMPLEMENTATION of mechanics is what counts in the end. And that is, especially in CRPGs, part of core gameplay. If Jaesun simply means C&C (in the most vulgar form), then I agree, Obsidian's games are reactive.

The things Obsidian regurarly fucks up, (camera, UI, shooting, combat in general, stability and bugginess of the game) are not CRPG mechanics

Combat is a huge part of CRPGs and is not only based upon mechanics but overall gameplay design (and capable coders in the end). And Obsidian is yet to make a good game in this regard... They do earn their reputation as great narrative/quest designers but that's fucking it.

 

[DalekFlay]

There is a lot of content for deckers in later runs. I'd recccomend one

Decker with awesome pistol skills and not drones is the way to go, IMO.

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

Thanks for you recommendations guys. Another question: Do I need to buy stuff like consumables, medi-kits, grenades etc. for my party members? There doesn't seem to be a way to give them items so I guess they restack their inventory by themselves in between missions?

 

[dryan]

Thanks for you recommendations guys. Another question: Do I need to buy stuff like consumables, medi-kits, grenades etc. for my party members? There doesn't seem to be a way to give them items so I guess they restack their inventory by themselves in between missions?

You can at the loadout window before zoning into a mission. The item will even show as "loaned" when you give it to your companions.

 

[Jaesun]

Shadowrunner, Street, and Academic. Actually

I have seen many uses of them. Are you actually playing the directors cut?

Of course I chose Security and Corporate, of which I have had only ONE conversation use one of them so far. But I am not that far in. Had I picked Shadowrunner, Street, and Academic I could have used them several times so far.

 

[Volourn]

"ds3 had good core gameplay, alpha prot had excellent crpg mechanics tied to c&c,"

No.

 

[Whisky]

shadowrunner is one of the previously unused ones, iirc. which is really a shame considering the whole situation after the initial mission is so goddamn perfect for it. missed opportunity hbs.

It was used in DMS when you sell data to that one fixer in the Union to get better prices.

Could have sworn there was something in Dragonfall that used it.

 

[V_K]

The etiquettes in general are a bit of a missed opportunity. It would be much more fun if it weren't just passive checks, but you'd have to choose among several etiquette options, with different outcomes - some of them good, some neutral (aka "try again"), some disastrous. Given how rare etiquette checks currently are, it wouldn't increase their workload much. In their current state they feel more like an excersise in metagaming than a meaningful mechanic.

 

[Blaine]

You're right; it's a very brute force way of increasing the game's difficulty. But it does work, and it's way better than the DMS cake walk. Take it for what it is, use buffs to increase your hit chance and soldier on - your characters will get stronger later on.

I've finished Harfeld Manor, The Drug Pit, and notably the Humanis Policlub mission, am working on the sewers, and haven't had much of a problem yet, except when three more assholes popped out of a door during a certain mission and I realized I should have bunkered down in that room with the turret after all. I'm playing on Hard.

It does unfortunately have the side effect that any single-target offensive ability you're not maximally skilled at has at best a 20-30% hit chance from one fucking square away, unless perhaps it's a shotgun you're using. I haven't a seen whiff factor like this since I can't remember when.

 

[SuicideBunny]

It was used in DMS when you sell data to that one fixer in the Union to get better prices.

so? dms had totally different etiquette usage distribution. we are talking df here.

Could have sworn there was something in Dragonfall that used it.

maybe after the etiquette patch (i think there was one), but definitely not before.
it's even mentioned in roxor's review. i remembered it because friggin shadowrunner was the first etiquette i picked.

 

[Lujo]

You're right; it's a very brute force way of increasing the game's difficulty. But it does work, and it's way better than the DMS cake walk. Take it for what it is, use buffs to increase your hit chance and soldier on - your characters will get stronger later on.

I've finished Harfeld Manor, The Drug Pit, and notably the Humanis Policlub mission, am working on the sewers, and haven't had much of a problem yet, except when three more assholes popped out of a door during a certain mission and I realized I should have bunkered down in that room with the turret after all. I'm playing on Hard.

It does unfortunately have the side effect that any single-target offensive ability you're not maximally skilled at has at best a 20-30% hit chance from one fucking square away, unless perhaps it's a shotgun you're using. I haven't a seen whiff factor like this since I can't remember when.

I decided to go very hard and am regretting it, which means I'll restart unless there's a way to tone it down. Being a decker isn't helping things, either, but I did the first two missions, the sewers and trial run, and I still can't get past the Loose Ends pharmaclean-up job. There seem to be bugs with the final fight, namely, the way turns before the reinforcements show up are calculated v. strangely and the basilisks simply don't turn up or do anything even if you free them some (most) of the time.

Glory is much better now, Eiger gets hit really hard with difficulty increase and all the general miss chance. The also buffed the decker guy a ton, it seems.

 

[Zetor]

I'm playing a charismatic decker with a rifle on Hard, and getting reasonable hit%s so far (usually over 60%) in the early-midgame. I do use Dietrich's aim buff when facing tougher enemies. Eiger holds her own too, as long as I keep her in sniper range... Glory sometimes drops down to 30-40%, which is annoying.

BTW, Lockdown (one of the new runs) is one of the best/funniest side missions I've played in a while. It even has its own thematic battle music. FOR THE KNIGHT-KINGS!

 

[DeepOcean]

I decided to go very hard and am regretting it, which means I'll restart unless there's a way to tone it down. Being a decker isn't helping things, either, but I did the first two missions, the sewers and trial run, and I still can't get past the Loose Ends pharmaclean-up job. There seem to be bugs with the final fight, namely, the way turns before the reinforcements show up are calculated v. strangely and the basilisks simply don't turn up or do anything even if you free them some (most) of the time.

Glory is much better now, Eiger gets hit really hard with difficulty increase and all the general miss chance. The also buffed the decker guy a ton, it seems.

Don't invest all your points on decking at the start of the game, decking becomes really useful later but, at the start, it is better to invest on your gun to get decent accuracy. Aim spell from Dietritch + Eagle totem and my assault rifle on full auto almost kill an enemy each round.

 

[Roguey]

I decided to go very hard and am regretting it, which means I'll restart unless there's a way to tone it down.

You can switch difficulties anytime.

 

[Blaine]

As is typical in the 2010s, Hard in Dragonfall is actually a slightly easier version of what would have been Normal in the 1990s, while Very Hard is probably slightly too obnoxious to properly enjoy, and meant solely for challenging true veterans who know the game mechanics inside and out. In fairness though, I have played X-COM, TFTD, JA2 et al. extensively, so Hard is working pretty much as Harebrained described it. It's not keyboard-smashingly frustrating, but if you make mistakes or are sloppy, you'll definitely pay for it (in medkit costs if nothing else). The inability to fully heal multiple wounds between the typically several battles per mission further discourages derpy play. It's not so punishing as to completely emphasize super-cautious turtling, and bold moves can pay off, which is nice.

Still, Open X-COM on harder difficulties makes this game look like Kiddie's First Playskool Fun Set.

Why the fuck are Silence and Quiet Bomb in this game? They never implemented stealth, which is fine, but why the ballast? Are they there to support modders who do implement stealth, perhaps?

 

[Roguey]

while Very Hard is probably slightly too obnoxious to properly enjoy, and meant solely for challenging true veterans who know the game mechanics inside and out.

It isn't, they balanced the game on Very Hard and then scaled it down thrice. They could call it Easiest, Easier, Easy, and Normal but there are psychological reasons for not doing that.

Why the fuck are Silence and Quiet Bomb in this game? They never implemented stealth, which is fine, but why the ballast? Are they there to support modders who do implement stealth, perhaps?

Anti-magery.

 

[Blaine]

It isn't, they balanced the game on Very Hard and then scaled it down thrice. They could call it Easiest, Easier, Easy, and Normal but there are psychological reasons for not doing that.

Nah. Super-cool insult, though it's hamstrung by your completely wrong follow-up.

Anti-magery.

Silence (which cannot even target foes) and Quiet Bomb don't prevent spellcasting in this game. You seem to know as much about the game mechanics as you do about the difficulty settings.

 

[Lujo]

while Very Hard is probably slightly too obnoxious to properly enjoy, and meant solely for challenging true veterans who know the game mechanics inside and out.

It isn't, they balanced the game on Very Hard and then scaled it down thrice. They could call it Easiest, Easier, Easy, and Normal but there are psychological reasons for not doing that.

No need for that, the fact that I went with Very Hard at all should make it clear that I'm no lightweigth. The combat was quite trivial the last time around, so I decided to challenge myself this time around, but I found it frustrating rather than fun. I'm using all the buffs, but the miss chance is making it difficult to use the "mark target" which seems to miss very, very often, the sniper range makes it a mite difficult to utilize it in most situations, going full buff + jump in with Glory seems to work pretty fine, but when you're always outnumbered and outgunned a long fighting mission drains your resources hard enough that it's a mite difficult to have any left by the end fight, and if the basilisks and the decking are bugged (and they are because the countdown of how many turns you have left before the backup shows up is bugged) that mission is just a complete pain in the ass.

Being incessantly pelted with grenades which makes any enemy at all a ranged AoE AP drainer is also quite unfun when it happens all the time as not only do you have to waste your own moves healing, you also randomly have someone taken out of the fight every round, so every individual fight feels more like a cross between a puzzle and a lottery regardless of whether you solve the actual puzzles. When cracking open the console and giving yourself the correct skills to be able to use every single optional gimmick against the enemies still doesn't help you much then you know something is wrong.

So, err, how do I actually adjust the difficulty? There a menu function I'm blind about or do I have to use the console?