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Shadowrun Shadowrun: Dragonfall - Director's Cut

Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I was just joking about playing a first person shooter, dryan
 

almondblight

Arcane
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Aug 10, 2004
Messages
2,549
I'm playing through Stitch in Time (mod) right now, it's pretty decent, enjoying it much more than the OC. The SRR mods really deserve more exposure; the Codex should do a review of some of them.
 

Morkar Left

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I'm playing it on PC and it feels like I'm on rails. I mean, I get to pick the order I do jobs or whatever, but it never feels like I can escape or put to one side the main, "get 50 grand to give to the lady with the information", plot line. I also feel like I'm being railroaded into certain positions and politics. I don't hate the radioactive ghost dragon, I don't hate the ork with the skin grafts, I don't care about whatever stupid anarchist suburb I live in, that's not my choice or position; why is the game forcing me in to it?

Is the game going to open up soon and let me try to get a full time job as a security officer at a corporation, or team up with the dragon or whatever? Or is this another shit RPG from some myopic game designers? May as well play a first person shooter at this rate, it would be quicker.

And this is why I left it after trying 3 times; at least in OC you got Phantom Phat loot to pursue and then Vendetta against the Assasins as quest; here just some inbreed anarchists I couldnot care to care about; would rather play :obviously: Fallouts for 100th time than this.

You don't have to care for the chick (but it's intendend that you should). There is another reason you should care about the missions: they are trying to kill you and hunt you down. That should be reason enough to investigate what the hell is going on.
 

Tigranes

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Jan 8, 2009
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10,350
Waiting for the Android version, I liked the original the first time through but it's too thin to hold my interest now unless I'm traveling.
 

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
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I would have loved some consequences for taking some missions or failing/doing others differently.
For instance, getting out of AZT clean was just too easy. I would LOVE some shorn ones with wierd crazy jaguar shamans and blood mages coming after you.
And the employer hunting you down for double crossing him on the cyberzombie, or the black lodge coming at you for agreeing to work for them and not doing a single thing to help them, or in fact doing the opposite.
 

Gord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
7,049
Agreed, they have unfortunately missed several easy opportunities for providing some consequences to your deeds.
Same with e.g. the ghouls in the sewers or the short mission at Gesundbrunnen for Gunari Mettbach.

In some cases I almost suspect that they had intended to do more with it but either run out of time or into technical isues or such.
 

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
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Working for the gunrunner and getting paid in supplies and getting your inventory upgraded further would have been awesome as well.
 

Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
You don't have to care for the chick (but it's intendend that you should). There is another reason you should care about the missions: they are trying to kill you and hunt you down. That should be reason enough to investigate what the hell is going on.

They weren't trying to do that until a good number of missions in, but more importantly I have no input into the goals or method of the investigation, or the game as a whole. I don't want to be an anarchist computer programmer loser, sorry. I want to open a diplomatic channel with the dragon to see if we can be friends, sure, but more realistically I'd rather avoid the dragon and try to get myself a job with one of those cool corporations or societies. Let me make the goal of my game be, to leave the arse end of berlin and get a real job. Why present me with this grand vision of the future, but then force me to live in the gutter like a piece of filth?
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
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Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,394
You don't have to care for the chick (but it's intendend that you should). There is another reason you should care about the missions: they are trying to kill you and hunt you down. That should be reason enough to investigate what the hell is going on.

They weren't trying to do that until a good number of missions in, but more importantly I have no input into the goals or method of the investigation, or the game as a whole. I don't want to be an anarchist computer programmer loser, sorry. I want to open a diplomatic channel with the dragon to see if we can be friends, sure, but more realistically I'd rather avoid the dragon and try to get myself a job with one of those cool corporations or societies. Let me make the goal of my game be, to leave the arse end of berlin and get a real job. Why present me with this grand vision of the future, but then force me to live in the gutter like a piece of filth?
The biggest problem of the story wasn't even that it restricted you to the anarchist place, that was understandable the problem was the lack of three things: a)A proper introduction to the place and people you are supposed to care about (Monika dies and you don't even know who she is or why care about that damn place.), b) a lack of a proper antagonist for the most part of the story (No, the dragon hunter and the ork only become relevant in the end of the game and you have no concrete and personal reason to care about stopping them, saving the world is just too much of a ridiculous and cliche motivation.) c) Lack of any real choice and consequence making everything a railroaded experience.

The story of the OC is just way better but the gameplay improvements of Dragonfall still make it better.
 

Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
AoD would never pull this shit

AoD is such a good game

great job AoD team
 

Spectacle

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You don't have to care for the chick (but it's intendend that you should). There is another reason you should care about the missions: they are trying to kill you and hunt you down. That should be reason enough to investigate what the hell is going on.

They weren't trying to do that until a good number of missions in, but more importantly I have no input into the goals or method of the investigation, or the game as a whole. I don't want to be an anarchist computer programmer loser, sorry. I want to open a diplomatic channel with the dragon to see if we can be friends, sure, but more realistically I'd rather avoid the dragon and try to get myself a job with one of those cool corporations or societies. Let me make the goal of my game be, to leave the arse end of berlin and get a real job. Why present me with this grand vision of the future, but then force me to live in the gutter like a piece of filth?
You're living in the gutter because you can't get get a corporate job. One of the central themes of cyberpunk is the stratification of society, and once you're on the bottom you're going to stay there. Sure there's always a way somehow, but that wouild be a completely different story, this game is about the Dragonfall.
 

Gord

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Feb 16, 2011
Messages
7,049
The problems you mention are really problems for 99% of the RPGs out there - you either accept the story hook that's been thrown at you or you don't.
If you do not accept that Monika is an old friend of your char and he would care about her, well, too bad.
That they missed putting some more actual consequences into the game (and there have been numerous cheap and easy possibilities for that) is a pity though.


I want to open a diplomatic channel with the dragon to see if we can be friends, sure, but more realistically I'd rather avoid the dragon and try to get myself a job with one of those cool corporations or societies.
Yeah, go play a PnP session, because what you are asking for is basically a human DM managing the session.
Before we develop a real AI (ask Prosper about it, though), we won't see anything like that. Not even in AoD.

Let me make the goal of my game be, to leave the arse end of berlin and get a real job. Why present me with this grand vision of the future, but then force me to live in the gutter like a piece of filth?
You are a disgrace to all Shadowrunners. Real job. Pfff...
 

Spectacle

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The problems you mention are really problems for 99% of the RPGs out there - you either accept the story hook that's been thrown at you or you don't.
If you do not accept that Monika is an old friend of your char and he would care about her, well, too bad

If players were a bit more willing to accept the basic premise of the plot and give their character a reason to play along, we'd probably see a lot less RPGs with "You are Chosen by the Prophecy!" style plots.
 

Gord

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If players were a bit more willing to accept the basic premise of the plot and give their character a reason to play along, we'd probably see a lot less RPGs with "You are Chosen by the Prophecy!" style plots.

I certainly wouldn't miss all the "U R CHOSEN ONE!!!1!!1" plots.
At least it's one thing they have avoided in SRR. DMS did do a reasonably good job in presenting a motivation to the player, even if you didn't care about your "old friend", you still had the easy money in front of you.
Too bad it devolved into the same old save-the-world drek halfway through.
 

Morkar Left

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You don't have to care for the chick (but it's intendend that you should). There is another reason you should care about the missions: they are trying to kill you and hunt you down. That should be reason enough to investigate what the hell is going on.

They weren't trying to do that until a good number of missions in, but more importantly I have no input into the goals or method of the investigation, or the game as a whole. I don't want to be an anarchist computer programmer loser, sorry. I want to open a diplomatic channel with the dragon to see if we can be friends, sure, but more realistically I'd rather avoid the dragon and try to get myself a job with one of those cool corporations or societies. Let me make the goal of my game be, to leave the arse end of berlin and get a real job. Why present me with this grand vision of the future, but then force me to live in the gutter like a piece of filth?

And I don't want to be a guy from a vault in Fallout who has to search for a waterchip and fight mutants. I would prefer to be a common trader who travels with his brahmin from the Hub to Junktown and buy/sale. Or even better just be a brahmin shepherd in Shady Sands. No, forget that, that would be fucking boring. Like a normal corporate job in SR.
Btw. you can eventually talk and negotiate with the dragon if that's your thing.

What Gord already said, what you want is barely manageable in a crpg and would need a completely different design approach and would still be lacking. Even Darklands which comes really close to what you are looking for (openended, mostly nonlinear) is restricted to a linear mainplot and even the premise that you are a do-gooder.

SR: Returns / Dragonfall lacks in some things in the sense of reactivity but when I think at what the game was originally intended (SNES/Genesis SR gameplay with tb combat), they did a really good job. The writing is easily among the best ever presented in a crpg. It's only gameplaymechanics / reactivity which they should improve on whenever hopefully a sequel gets made.
 

Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
SR: Returns / Dragonfall lacks in some things in the sense of reactivity but when I think at what the game was originally intended (SNES/Genesis SR gameplay with tb combat), they did a really good job.


Yes, they made a console game with tb combat

:thumbsup:
 

almondblight

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2004
Messages
2,549
The guy who made Life on a Limb is back at it:

2592BCFD8B5E5E909AE162C48987F6FE9319D534


9C4F7EE324576C16B4C13FD48CBA29A45BE403D9
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
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I've completed Dragonfall. It took me two weeks, which is one week more than DMS. I thought the endgame was a bit too long for its own good, but at least the last map allowed you to bypass and skip encounters.

I enjoyed how it started at Telestrian-run difficulty and gradually ramped up; "Very hard" still isn't very hard, but Josh "My goal was to increment the difficulty above Fallout 3 without taking such a large step that F3 fans would be unable or unwilling to adapt" Sawyer would approve. Sniper rifles were fun to use, and it was well worth getting 7 points into strength to carry that minigun. My favorite set-pieces were bomb disarming in the sewers, that big mage fight in that apartment, protecting the terminal from the hordes (My decker was down and I was one turn away from failure/success, but my last -3 AP grenade saved the day), and the final battle. Of course most of these involve some sort of time pressure.

The writing was decent-enough genre fiction. I liked how the writers had the same idea about Eiger's name that I did. That rookie deserved what he got, would still want to climb. Women were handled well-enough, but a shame racial diversity wasn't anywhere near as good as DMS's. It does near-accurately reflect Berlin's current demographics I guess. Nevertheless, I don't regret voting for Berlin over Hong Kong (which will very likely end up becoming the setting for the third campaign anyway much to my annoyance).

As for what I'd like to see improved in the third campaign, I really want the option to enter and exit a combat state at will (of course making sure it can't be exploited to keep healing that last bit of damage, a feature of which I approve). Being able to hack security cameras was great (as were all those things in the levels that made taking a decker worthwhile), but not being able to set up my own ambush diminished the effect. They still need to improve when it comes to karma distribution; it made no sense to me how killing that one shadowrunner immediately gives you 3 karma, but talking to him first gives you 0. Sinking all that money into the shelter is purely a narrative reactivity option which is just strange considering the damn game gives you 1 karma for randomly giving a guard a beer. I hope they ramp up the difficulty a slight bit more, but not so much that Dragonfall fans are unable or unwilling to adapt. I dunno what to expect in that area though, since I've noticed quite a few complaints about it, but frankly they should just dial the damn difficulty down. My game glitched during the Humanis mission and wouldn't let me progress or save, so I redid the bridge ambush fight on easy to get by it asap and holy cow do the fights just fly on by when enemies have less health, and you have more accuracy and greater chance for criticals. Play on baby-mode or learn to play noobs.

Anyway this thing is another fine example of https://twitter.com/pedrothedagger/status/459192754275250176 https://twitter.com/pedrothedagger/status/459193281746714624, good job HBS.
 

Jaesun

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I just finished Shadowrun Returns (I liked it), will be playing this next week. Looking forward too it.

It's even Roguey Approved™ apparently...
 

ColCol

Arcane
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Jul 12, 2012
Messages
1,731
Nevertheless, I don't regret voting for Berlin over Hong Kong (which will very likely end up becoming the setting for the third campaign anyway much to my annoyance).

really, some of the dialog in the campaign made me think the next campaign would be in Latin America.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
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That would be better but I dunno.

By the way I forgot to mention how I appreciated how the writers reinforced the theme of "nothing is what it seems" in pretty much every character and mission. As JES has said, most people don't care about that or don't bother to do it in RPGs. This helps make it better-written than DMS which felt like it tried to have as much Shadowrun-y stuff as it could; probably inevitable when you make a game that also doubles as a toolset for people to make their own campaigns.
 

Metro

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I just finished Shadowrun Returns (I liked it), will be playing this next week. Looking forward too it.

It's even Roguey Approved™ apparently...
So that means it's better than DOS? Can't believe it.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
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I haven't actually played D:OS and it's entirely possible I'll enjoy its content as much as or more than Dragonfall's (except writing which clearly looks worse).

Both have terribad systems.
 

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