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NSFW Best Thread Ever [No SJW-related posts allowed]

tuluse

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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Games are art, dude. When I can paint a picture with the brains of my opponets through headshot multi kill, this is something I would call art. Just look at those blood splatters on the wall.
It looks something like this:

DSC_0444.JPG


Like real art, only a little more red/green/blue (depending on the game)
Halo is the artiest game ever made.
 

Tytus

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Because it's a fleeting art. Just like Hindu sand mandala, that monks destroy second after finishing it to start over.
Wrong analogy, if the monks can start over again it means they have sufficient memory to hold the pattern indefinitely.

But when they start over new sand mandala is different so the previous pattern was lost.
 
In My Safe Space
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I guess this is where I generally struggle with Sarkeesian. I admire her intentions (without trying to divine the motives behind it), but I don't think she's very good as a "youtube personality" either in entertaining or offer insights, and you do have to be able to do either one. Instead of analyzing, she keeps hitting these notes of "obviously" and "it goes without saying".

The claim was that Tropes vs Women would be an "academic" or at least analytical series. Now if I'm reviewing an academic series and the author keeps going "obviously" and "naturally", I frown and start looking for footnotes and elucidation. You just can't do that in academic setting, in fact that's one of the first pitfalls that got knocked out of me in university; just because something intuitively makes sense does not mean it is proven in any real sense. "It is a given" is not proof. That's the difference between academics and, well, just shooting the shit. Now if she just wants to be a youtube personality and analyse on that level that's fine, but if she wants to offer actual analysis you can't structure it like this. Just citing a bunch of examples and saying what they do over and over proves nothing except your own confirmation bias, no matter what point you make, and if you then want to pull it into a larger context you do actually have to prove your claim, not just go "it should go without saying".
She's a typical person with barely above average intelligence that thinks that is very smart, so smart that she can bypass any kind of intellectual discipline.
She can even override science and biology with her wishful thinking.

And all this despite the fact that I don't actually disagree with her point. The active-to-passive role of men and women in these narratives is lazy or even appalling, and the structuring of these plots to utilize women as plot devices is cliche and uninteresting even before it is worrisome. Like Josh Sawyer said in Infy's link above, it as simple as a call to more actively think about plot structure and gender instead of just defaulting to "gender roles", which again isn't just worrisome from a societal viewpoint, it's also just plain bad writing. But if I wanted to convince someone of this point, I sure as heck wouldn't link em to Sarkeesian's video.
I almost never encountered damsels in distress in my games. I guess they are in games for guys who actually come out and meet people in sufficient amount to realise that female characters with equal strength to men are pure bullshit and that if anything happens, it's not going to be a fight where women are going to stand by their side as equals, but rather men defending them or sacrificing themselves to let them escape.
I used to believe the equality stuff that I have been fed with by games like Fallout or Baldur's Gate, but later people told me/I've read in books/heard in female kickboxing champion interview that I was wrong. It was very disappointing and I became a misogynist because of it.
That's how games with equalitis are promoting misogyny.
 

Tytus

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Thundef00t a youtube user with some academic background. Made a response video to first part of her series. And while I don't agree with the guy on everything he says here. He has some good points.



 

Zewp

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So she thinks that these games are pro domestic violence and are making excuses for it? I can't even... I played a game when I had to save a girl by defeating a mage that was possesing her. YUP! IT'S TIME TO BEAT MY GIRLFRIEND WITH A CORD!

I was about say that she is not totally wrong, but after that line... she lost all credibily to me.

It's the same as saying that violent video games cause school shootings.


That's kinda missing her point spectacularly. Her point is that a lot of small things, like the damsel in distress trope, ends up contributing to a larger, casually sexist mentality within society. I don't necessarily agree with her, I think the damsel in distress trope is harmless, but her point certainly isn't that after saving a damsel in distress men round up a posse and go gang-rape women.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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These stories conjure supernatural situations in which domestic violence perpetrated by men against women who’ve “lost control of themselves” not only appears justified but is actually presented as an altruistic act done “for the woman’s own good”.

Yeah, I can't imagine a lot of people following her reasoning here. The situations depicted in this video game are in no way equitable to domestic violence, they are for the most part either a) self-defense against beings that have the capacity and are actively trying to harm the main character (beings, note, that are often no longer actually the woman they were before) or b) euthanasia of a woman who is in a situation where she is suffering too much to want to continue to live, and actively and consciously expresses this. You can argue the moral standards of both situations, but neither situation really fits domestic violence, at least not the active-against-passive domestic violence she appears to be thinking of. If a woman goes crazy (for reasons unrelated to the man & their relationship), grabs a steak knife, and comes running, then I don't think it counts as domestic violence if he punches her out. It's violence in a domestic setting, but it is also self-defense in which the main character or "the male" is the passive one, not the female.

Given the reality of that larger cultural context, it should go without saying that it’s dangerously irresponsible to be creating games in which players are encouraged and even required to perform violence against women in order to “save them”.

I guess this is where I generally struggle with Sarkeesian. I admire her intentions (without trying to divine the motives behind it), but I don't think she's very good as a "youtube personality" either in entertaining or offer insights, and you do have to be able to do either one. Instead of analyzing, she keeps hitting these notes of "obviously" and "it goes without saying".

The claim was that Tropes vs Women would be an "academic" or at least analytical series. Now if I'm reviewing an academic series and the author keeps going "obviously" and "naturally", I frown and start looking for footnotes and elucidation. You just can't do that in academic setting, in fact that's one of the first pitfalls that got knocked out of me in university; just because something intuitively makes sense does not mean it is proven in any real sense. "It is a given" is not proof. That's the difference between academics and, well, just shooting the shit. Now if she just wants to be a youtube personality and analyse on that level that's fine, but if she wants to offer actual analysis you can't structure it like this. Just citing a bunch of examples and saying what they do over and over proves nothing except your own confirmation bias, no matter what point you make, and if you then want to pull it into a larger context you do actually have to prove your claim, not just go "it should go without saying".

And all this despite the fact that I don't actually disagree with her point. The active-to-passive role of men and women in these narratives is lazy or even appalling, and the structuring of these plots to utilize women as plot devices is cliche and uninteresting even before it is worrisome. Like Josh Sawyer said in Infy's link above, it as simple as a call to more actively think about plot structure and gender instead of just defaulting to "gender roles", which again isn't just worrisome from a societal viewpoint, it's also just plain bad writing. But if I wanted to convince someone of this point, I sure as heck wouldn't link em to Sarkeesian's video.

Oh well.

I guess I agree with the basics of what you're saying here, but I think what you're trying to say is way more simple. Which is that while she may have a point, her analysis is superficial and her "study" amounts to some selective data mining and her very unscientifically extrapolating conclusions from that.

I think she is a problem. Right now she pisses the antis off to no end, which is always fun, but modern constructivism is hella complex, and she does feminism a very big disfavour by claiming she's doing anything academic to her material. She isn't just cherry-picking data selectively here, she's also claiming to use some very sturdy social theories, but she mauls them compeltely by applying them so superficially to her cherry-picked data.

Had this just been a datamine without the wild conclusions and the pseudo-academia, perhaps I wouldn't have cringed whenever I watch her. Though even then, the data mining is still selective as all fuck.

This is at best kiddy journalism, and if it hadn't been for the insane anti-feminist response, Sarkheesian would have hurt her cause more than helped it. You don't do research by cherry-picking, it's Rule Number #1.



This started so well. A good deconstruction. Then he came to the "acted upon bullshit" where his argument turns basically a gigantic strawman. Then his argument spirals downwards from there. Lesson here: If you're going to call someone out on their bullshit way to argue, you can't use the same bullshit.
 

Kane

I have many names
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Zewp

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Codex 2013
I actually think there's a very viable discussion to be had on her subject matter, I just don't think Sarkeesian is the one to be doing it. I can't help but shake this feeling that more than likely before these videos she was more than likely a Tumblr feminist.
 

Borelli

Arcane
Joined
Dec 5, 2012
Messages
1,268
Is it true that she also attacked ICO? ICO!?! I mean you handhold a woman from start to finish so it's an obvious candidate but with attacking ICO she will piss off the artfags and they are the only one who may be on her side. Woman needs to learn some realpolitik.
 
In My Safe Space
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Messages
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Codex 2012
That's kinda missing her point spectacularly. Her point is that a lot of small things, like the damsel in distress trope, ends up contributing to a larger, casually sexist mentality within society. I don't necessarily agree with her, I think the damsel in distress trope is harmless, but her point certainly isn't that after saving a damsel in distress men round up a posse and go gang-rape women.
No, her point is that if you see a women getting raped, you don't come to help her because it would be objectifications. Instead you walk away, knowing that you aren't patronizing her by thinking she may be too weak to defend herself.
 

dnf

Pedophile
Dumbfuck Shitposter
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Messages
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This started so well. A good deconstruction. Then he came to the "acted upon bullshit" where his argument turns basically a gigantic strawman. Then his argument spirals downwards from there. Lesson here: If you're going to call someone out on their bullshit way to argue, you can't use the same bullshit.

Funny you said that, because i stopped watching when he was doing that(pointing misandry in games for trolling purposes). Still i think it was a valid point tough, he was just using the same rethoric as her to prove that she is full of shit.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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Funny you said that, because i stopped watching when he was doing that(pointing misandry in games for trolling purposes). Still i think it was a valid point tough, he was just using the same rethoric as her to prove that she is full of shit.

Neither have a problem with rhetoric (or well, they do, but it's far from their biggest one). Both have problem with substance. Both use faulty arguments.

Her crime is trying to seem legit while doing so. His is arguing someone's bullshit using the same bullshit.
 

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