Development Info Scars Of War Will Be Politically Correct

[VentilatorOfDoom]

there should be a trait for that, for female players. +4 str, -8 cha, +2 intimidate. and this image as character portrait.

call this trait *steroine*.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

are there any screenshots or anything of this game? or is it still in blog-phase?

Don't derail the thread, please

 

[Naked Ninja]

are there any screenshots or anything of this game? or is it still in blog-phase?

These are old, more to come now that my artist has returned from the great wilderness of Real Life (I've been programming, sorry, it's less photogenic)

link


@Lyric Suite : Don't care dude, maybe you missed this. And no, it won't immediately lead to chainmail bikinis, those kinds of ideas arise from a completely different (and male designer-driven) impulse.

 

[Zomg]

Men playing as women want to be rough dudes

If women playing as men wanted to still be able to gestate a fetus and I guess pass it through the urethra leaving the penis a tattered ruin or something well that would be a fantasy game trope I guess.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

btw since we have a lot of experts for real life itt, how come that when I look at the world outside I see women who are smaller, more gracile and most likely weaker all the fucking time? I mean since women aren't really weaker and it's all but a social construct etc. Another things that buggers me, how do these real life women manage to not be weaker than men, I mean with all the testosterone they're lacking, testosterone you know, which is primarily responsible for muscles and stuffies.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

I'm all for a strength boost and a charisma penalty on that.

That all depends on what 'Charisma' is. I couldn't see many people trash talking her while she was around, or telling her she was wrong.

Would be a brave man

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

btw since we have a lot of experts for real life itt, how come that when I look at the world outside I see women who are smaller, more gracile and most likely weaker all the fucking time? I mean since women aren't really weaker and it's all but a social construct etc. Another things that buggers me, how do these real life women manage to not be weaker than men, I mean with all the testosterone they're lacking, testosterone you know, which is primarily responsible for muscles and stuffies.

What has real life got to do with a fantasy game. Perhaps I am not understanding you here. Elaborate your point a bit further.

Edit: oh, you are talking about the other people in here. Agreed, women are naturally weaker than men on average regarding musculature, once testosterone hits.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

That all depends on what 'Charisma' is. I couldn't see many people trash talking her while she was around, or telling her she was wrong.

Would be a brave man

That would be Intimidation, which I think is based on Strength.

edit: I misspelled your name, but it came out so weird, I'll just leave it as is

@VentiturdOfTurd: Muscles aren't all that great since all it takes is a firm grip on a giant's balls to stop him.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

What has real life got to do with a fantasy game. Perhaps I am not understanding you here. Elaborate your point a bit further.

Edit: oh, you are talking about the other people in here. Agreed, women are naturally weaker than men on average regarding musculature, once testosterone hits.

it was mainly in reply to

There is really no inherent difference in strength, agility or whatever. That's just some social thing, because women are not expected to work as steel workers, lift heavy weights or become master swordfighters. And they seem to be quite fine with these social institutions, which is without question. But in principle, and if the sheer need arises, they could perform like any male.

which is obvious bullshit because it goes against basic biology.

As you pointed out earlier one doesn't need überstrength to be a skilled warrior (eg fencing) so there's no need to penalize female characters in a computer game, where the character system is just an abstraction in the first place. otoh I wouldn't feel penalized by something like -2 str, +2 dex as long as dex fighter builds are viable.

 

[Zomg]

Retard fantasy imagines herodudes to be strong even to the point of physical implausiibility (like ignoring leverage and friction) so eh, failing to uphold a realistic statistical strength advantage for males of 2-3 standard deviations isn't a blow to my verisimilitude at that point. But it would have to be pretty retarded, like superhero retarded

 

[Alex]

Thank you Lyric Suite, you've shown me the error of my ways. I take it all back.

Don't be a dounce. Every escapist fantasy needs to have its own set of rules and suspension of disbelief is maintained based on the consistency in which the setting is able to respect said rules. Every time you move from the improbable to the impossible (within the parameters of the fantasy) you risk of braking the fourth wall, thus compromising the whole experience. This is why we are all up in arms with skimpy female armor and retarded spiky giant swords and pauldrons because they have no place in a proper medieval inspired setting. Saying that "lol itz just fantasy guyz" is not a proper argument, and is a very tired fallacy which i assumed it would be well below the Codex by now. If women see themselves as less in fantasy worlds as they do in real life its because they are trying not to brake their suspension of disbelief, it has nothing to do with social condition or any other libtard explanation.

Lyric, I agree completely that fantasy is not an excuse for doing whatever one wants in a setting without explanation or reason. But what is acceptable in a work of fiction depends a lot on what came before. A setting inspired by the dark ages usually won't explain how feudalism works unless its exact details are important to the plot. Likewise, if a fantasy game's elves work exactly like generic, nature worshiping elves, they probably don't need to have their nature explained.

My point is that equality between genders is present enough in rpg games that most people won't even blink upon seeing it is the case. In fact, nowadays I am more surprised when the revers is true.

 

[Naked Ninja]

The realism argument is a bit arbitrary. The game isn't going to force you to find a squire to help you get into or out of plate mail either, nor will it take 15 minutes to do so, both of which are also realistic. For things which make the game more fun for players, we're generally willing to suspend disbelief a bit.

The people arguing that letting female characters have equal stats to men is simply over that line and unacceptable, in terms of suspension of disbelief, when all the other little inaccurate things we ignore aren't, are generally all young males for whom this is some sort of gender pride thing.

I don't care about that stance, at all.


Right, continue then.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

That would be Intimidation, which I think is based on Strength.

@VentiturdOfTurd: Muscles aren't all that great since all it takes is a firm grip on a giant's balls to stop him.

Agreed regarding intimidation.

As for the ball crusher...perhaps that could be a female perk: false submission - allow an enemy male to believe you have submitted to his manliness, then, when he leasts expects it, take the 'balls' by the horn!

Double critical + 2-10 rounds of excruciating pain for target.

Target must possess 'Homosexual' perk/vice to completely resist.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Don't care dude, maybe you missed this.

Pretty much how you act everytime...

HEY GUISE IM TOTALLY OPEN TO IDEAS FOR MY GAEM.

Then when someone tells you something you don't agree with.

HAH LOSER I KNOW BETTAR!

 

[Lyric Suite]

What has real life got to do with a fantasy game.

I admire the persistence of your retardation.

 

[Naked Ninja]

Pretty much how you act everytime...

HEY GUISE IM TOTALLY OPEN TO IDEAS FOR MY GAEM.

Then when someone tells you something you don't agree with.

HAH LOSER I KNOW BETTAR!

I know, it's a cool trick hey?

Unfortunately, your clever detective work has caught me out. Kudos to you.

 

[FeelTheRads]

And then the obligatory sarcastic remark.

 

[Zomg]

The realism argument is a bit arbitrary. The game isn't going to force you to find a squire to help you get into or out of plate mail either, nor will it take 15 minutes to do so, both of which are also realistic. For things which make the game more fun for players, we're generally willing to suspend disbelief a bit.

The people arguing that letting female characters have equal stats to men is simply over that line and unacceptable, in terms of suspension of disbelief, when all the other little inaccurate things we ignore aren't, are generally all young males for whom this is some sort of gender pride thing.

Most of these retards think like that but not me bro. Male strength vs. female strength is a point of identity, what makes a male male, as concrete as differences in primary sexual characteristics.

The difference is that it's a statistical difference with overlap, the strongest woman is stronger than the weakest man - so you can mess with it in fiction in a way that like, you couldn't casually reveal that Thulsa Doom got Conan preggers from kissing, but people that are smart enough to ahve statistical conceptions of reality will be bothered at some level

 

[Clockwork Knight]

That would be Intimidation, which I think is based on Strength.

Agreed regarding intimidation.

Then again, people wouldn't dare to badmouth Hitler, not because he was a scary visage, but because he had a shitload of followers. Hmm...

Target must possess 'Homosexual' perk/vice to completely resist.

That's for resisting Seduction attempts. To resist the nutcracker, you need at least a level in "Post-op Transgender" class.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

What has real life got to do with a fantasy game.

I admire the persistence of your retardation.

Translation: I have nothing of concrete substance with which to offer a proper retort, however, since I am such a manly man, I must naturally offer the last gibe in this debate. I will grab a random line, and then post a dismissive comment that says nothing. Win.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

That would be Intimidation, which I think is based on Strength.

Agreed regarding intimidation.

Then again, people wouldn't dare to badmouth Hitler, not because he was a scary visage, but because he had a shitload of followers. Hmm...

Using a fantasy version, you could say that the Gnomes of Arcanum had a huge Intimidation factor. Small weaklings, armed with nothing but a monocle and pipe but possessing huge political pull, all backed up by a platoon of Half Ogre thugs.

 

[Lyric Suite]

My point is that equality between genders is present enough in rpg games that most people won't even blink upon seeing it is the case. In fact, nowadays I am more surprised when the revers is true.

I for one, blink. But i get what you are saying. We live in a society in which political correctness is so entrenched, the brain washing so complete, that most people do no see the impossible as inconsistent with a particular setting. Why then the need to discuss said inconsistency? It seems to me then that NakedNinja's blog entry was more about solving his own cognitive dissonances then any real concern with the design difficulties of implementing real life differences between the sexes while maintaining consistency within the setting.

 

[Lyric Suite]

What has real life got to do with a fantasy game.

I admire the persistence of your retardation.

Translation: I have nothing of concrete substance with which to offer a proper retort, however, since I am such a manly man, I must naturally offer the last gibe in this debate. I will grab a random line, and then post a dismissive comment that says nothing. Win.

You have already lost the argument, have fun pretending.

 

[Mastermind]

Thank you Lyric Suite, you've shown me the error of my ways. I take it all back.

Don't be a dounce. Every escapist fantasy needs to have its own set of rules and suspension of disbelief is maintained based on the consistency in which the setting is able to respect said rules. Every time you move from the improbable to the impossible you risk of braking the fourth wall, thus compromising experience. This is why we are all up in arms with skimpy female armor and retarded spiky giant swords and pauldrons because they have no place in a proper medieval inspired setting. Saying that "lol itz just fantasy guyz" is not a proper argument, and is a very tired fallacy which i assumed it would be well below the Codex by now. If women see themselves as less in fantasy worlds as they do in real life its because they are trying not to brake their suspension of disbelief, it has nothing to do with social condition or any other libtard explanation.

Is your brain disease creeping out again? I assume you answered my post, though chose the wrong person to quote. I will answer anyway.

A proper medieval setting has no place for fireballs spewing forth from fingertips. It has no place for Evil Gods. It has no place for Orcs, magical weapons, etc. None of these actually existed. There were a number of women that were renowned warriors back in medieval times, though their strength compared to men is not recorded. There are no recordings of Dragons, Orcs, Fireball flinging Magicians, Clerics that heal people with a prayer, and so on.

There are myths and religious texts that state this, but nothing concrete based on any evidence.

If myths and religious texts, saga's, etc are the par for course, then basically there is nothing against super strong females. Just as there is nothing against Lizard men, Dog men, Cat men, etc etc the list of 'not' medieval goes on and on. Perhaps a rocket ship, or laser cannons in a medieval setting (though what would stop an extra planetary civilisation from invading an Earth like medieval setting is beyond me. I guess they supposed to wait until humans have at least invented Cannon and so on) may break the wall a touch, but strong women? give me a break.

If it's a medieval FANTASY setting then magic is very much consistent with the world. If it's a historical setting, then you'd have a point.

 

[Alex]

The realism argument is a bit arbitrary. The game isn't going to force you to find a squire to help you get into or out of plate mail either, nor will it take 15 minutes to do so, both of which are also realistic. For things which make the game more fun for players, we're generally willing to suspend disbelief a bit.

The people arguing that letting female characters have equal stats to men is simply over that line and unacceptable, in terms of suspension of disbelief, when all the other little inaccurate things we ignore aren't, are generally all young males for whom this is some sort of gender pride thing.

I don't care about that stance, at all.


Right, continue then.

I don't think this is about simply ignoring things that make the game more fun (might be wrong, though). I think it has to do with missing opportunities for characterization. Like, instead of making both genders equal, you might have made women weaker by default (let's suppose, a bonus to one attribute and a penalty to str). Then you could have created female only traits that ignored these restrictions, like, say, amazon. Finally you could weave these traits into the story of the world, so if one chooses amazon as her trait, she will be treated differently in a lot of places. Thus, instead of simply ignoring something "boring", you make it into a hard choice that makes your game seem more alive.

However, I don't think this is really a good thing for your game unless you want to make the differences between genders a major point of your game's theme. What I am trying to say is that I think Lyric Suite is simply arguing on the principle of the idea that it is ok to ignore things without thought when writing a work of fiction.