Development Info Scars Of War Will Be Politically Correct

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Tags: Scars of War

<p>Yes it will. There won't be any male +2 STR, female +2 CHA fascist crap. Gareth Fouche, a.k.a. NakedNinja, <a href="http://scarsofwargame.com/DevBlog/?p=1487" target="_blank">explains why</a>.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>That was her <em>instinctive</em> reaction, based upon her prior experiences. Women are seen as <em>lesser</em>, even in escapist fantasy and &lsquo;play&rsquo;, even, to a degree, to themselves. That disturbs me. I&rsquo;ve made my fair share of off-colour or misogynistic jokes in my time, but always in the spirit of the jibe, the good-natured war of the sexes. Men bemoan women, women roll their eyes at men, we all carry on knowing that we&rsquo;re all really &lsquo;in love with the enemy&rsquo;, yes?</p>
<p>...</p>
<p>Which brings us back to SoW. You&rsquo;ve probably figured out where I&rsquo;m going with this. There aren&rsquo;t any real differences between the genders in SoW, beyond the cosmetic. Not in the <em>character system</em>. This is not to say that sexism doesn&rsquo;t exist in the world of Scars of War, that it&rsquo;s some homogenized, politically-correct fantasy world. There is sexism and rape and a whole host of suitably nasty things. But there won&rsquo;t be anything like &lsquo;Males get +2 Strength, Females get +2 to Charisma&rsquo; or whatever in the character system. There will be nothing that says to a woman who plays SoW &lsquo;hmmm, you want to be a warrior eh? Well, better play a man then&hellip;&rsquo;. If she wants to be Shannon the Barbarian, so be it.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Spotted at: <a href="http://www.gamebanshee.com/news/99732-scars-of-war-developer-blog-update.html">GB</a></p>

 

[laclongquan]

So?

And here I thought there's a definite NO on the tasteful rape. Or the porn posters. Or the skimpy outfits (not because it's sexy but because of the lack of materials, you know, all the islanders wear skimpy outfits).

 

[latexmonkeys]

There aren’t any real differences between the genders in SoW, beyond the cosmetic.

So few rpgs base stats on gender I'm surprised you're making a point of this. Who cares?


Also, I find it slightly amusing that you form opinions on an entire genders' psychological disposition based solely on your girlfriend's "instinctive reaction."

 

[PorkaMorka]

It's the easy way out.

While women do have a strength penalty in real life (among other things), certain systems may lack sufficient granularity in stats to reflect it. (Women can be significantly stronger than a male halfling, although obviously it's rare)

But you don't necessarily want to give halflings a double STR penalty.

You can work around this somewhat with STR caps but that may not fit every game.

Plus there is not much gameplay advantage of reflecting real life female characteristics in RPG stats.

If I'm extremely charitable, Females are worse at strength, speed and hit points at the very least, while having only an advantage in charisma (really, reaction modifiers). There is really no advantage to playing one as a melee fighter.

So you'd be limiting the player's choices in exchange for a minor gain in verisimilitude. I'd do it, but you can see why it might be a hard sell.

That is not to mention the potential for negative press in a world where something like 75% of people have internalized so much propaganda as to have flatly counter factual beliefs.

Although negative press might be a good thing for an indie game, still gets your name out there.

 

[Ogg]

There is sexism and rape and a whole host of suitably nasty things.

I'm sure this line is for the Codex

 

[Brotherman Bill]

Who plays as a woman anyways?

 

[Clockwork Knight]

While women do have a strength penalty in real life

Generic women, not your average amazon heroine, which is the one the player will be using.

So yeah, I agree that this difference doesn't serve much purpose other than remind the female player that she's weak and her talents would be better invested playing aas a sexy dancer or something, even though I don't see why people would be compelled to play as one gender or the other because of one measly point. Feel free to be Shannon the Barbarian either way, it's not like all barbarians must have max STR to be playable.

 

[hiver]

Very good.

Ill definitely play as a female character at least a few times so i salute this kind of thought process.


btw, there is no such thing as "strength penalty in real life" for women. - to the moron above.
Its all individual.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

It's okay bro, the PC police can't harm you here.

 

[Zomg]

As long as fetus gestation isn't implemented this is balanced

 

[Humanity has risen!]

Would you trust an army of women to defend your country?

 

[Azrael the cat]

Need to remember that the party members and main character in fantasy games are the 'heroes'. They aren't your typical peasant or even your typical soldier. It's irrelevant whether women, on average, can perform as well as men using medieval weaponry. Your character, if female, is the one genetic freak that can out-wrestle the strongest guys if that's your build. Gender averages have nothing to do with it.

Think of it this way: ordinarily no one individual is going able to be able to wield the kind of influence or kill as many folks undefeated, as the hero of a fantasy rpg. And a human certainly isn't going to be able to kill a fucking dragon. And if realism is an issue, humans can't exactly go around throwing fireballs out of their hands, can they?

Fantasy heroes are the 'exceptions' to the general order. Your average peasant can't throw fireballs or kill mini-armies by themselves either. Given that your character (and party members) is already a genetic freak, a one in a million the likes of which might never be seen again, then there's no problem having a female with uber-strength.

 

[Zeus]

If different stats for different sexes is sexist, then different stats for different races is racist.

Also, I know we're talking about heroes--not average people--but the real world has abnormally mighty champions too.

Becca Swanson is the only woman ever to squat over 800 pounds.

Paul Edward Anderson did 1,202.

Just sayin'.

 

[Lyric Suite]

btw, there is no such thing as "strength penalty in real life" for women. - to the moron above.
Its all individual.

Hiver cannot into bell curves.

 

[Naked Ninja]

If different stats for different sexes is sexist, then different stats for different races is racist.

Think you misread me. I didn't consider different stats 'sexist'. I just think, for the purposes of escapist entertainment and power fantasy/wish fulfillment, it's fine for women to be able to build characters that stand equal to the males in terms of physical power. They can make a 'Shannon the Barbarian' that's every bit a match for Conan, if they want to. It's their game and their fantasy, in that regard.

If you want to make a female fighter and feel that women should be a little weaker than men, feel free to spend less points on Strength.

 

[denizsi]

Need to remember that the party members and main character in fantasy games are the 'heroes'. They aren't your typical peasant or even your typical soldier. It's irrelevant whether women, on average, can perform as well as men using medieval weaponry. Your character, if female, is the one genetic freak that can out-wrestle the strongest guys if that's your build. Gender averages have nothing to do with it.

Think of it this way: ordinarily no one individual is going able to be able to wield the kind of influence or kill as many folks undefeated, as the hero of a fantasy rpg. And a human certainly isn't going to be able to kill a fucking dragon. And if realism is an issue, humans can't exactly go around throwing fireballs out of their hands, can they?

Fantasy heroes are the 'exceptions' to the general order. Your average peasant can't throw fireballs or kill mini-armies by themselves either. Given that your character (and party members) is already a genetic freak, a one in a million the likes of which might never be seen again, then there's no problem having a female with uber-strength.

Which is why fantasy usually sucks for relying on such tropes instead of showing how ordinary men and women rise to greatness despite the odds as opposed to bypassing the odds because they are so inherently Awesome!, where the former has far too many examples in history, possibly more than most if not all fantasy literature combined.

When was the last time any RPG had gender-based stat difference anyway?

If you want to make a female fighter and feel that women should be a little weaker than men, feel free to spend less points on Strength.

I think what matters more is whether there will be gender-exclusive options (traits, advantages/disadvantages) during character creation with meaningful reaction from game world.

 

[Zeus]

I just think, for the purposes of escapist entertainment and power fantasy/wish fulfillment, it's fine for women to be able to build characters that stand equal to the males in terms of physical power.

Women should be able to build characters who are every bit as strong the characters men build.

Provided both of their characters are male.

 

[Relay]

Very good.

Ill definitely play as a female character at least a few times so i salute this kind of thought process.


btw, there is no such thing as "strength penalty in real life" for women. - to the moron above.
Its all individual.

Yeah there is no strength penalty that's why there is such discrepancy between the strongest men and strongest women at, say, weightlifting. Also it is so well known that men tend to be victim of domestic abuse by the hands of their women.. in your alternative dimension.

As of the Athens 2004 Summer Olympics, the official world record for the Men's Clean and Jerk is 263.0 kilograms (580 lb). This record was set by Hossein Reza Zadeh of Iran.
The world record for the Women's Clean and Jerk is 187.0 kilograms (412 lb) as of 2009 World Weightlifting Championships. This record was set by Jang Miran of South Korea.[4]

If it was all about the individual we wouldn't need to segregate the sexes in sports events.

Moron.

Both the average (the group) and the best elements, record holders show there is no such a thing as being equal. There is a reason why most rape involve men abusing women. You aren't likely to see men coming out of the household with a blackeye and bloody face.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

Which is why fantasy usually sucks for relying on such tropes instead of showing how ordinary men and women rise to greatness despite the odds as opposed to bypassing the odds because they are so inherently Awesome!, where the former has far too many examples in history, possibly more than most if not all fantasy literature combined.

When was the last time any RPG had gender-based stat difference anyway?

Eschalon 2. It gave more strenght to men. But more dexterity to women in turn.

Which is bullshit too, women aren't more dexterous at shit.

I remember archery competitions when I was younger, the organization enforced some affirmative action bullshit to let girls play. But they performed so miserably that it was an embarassment, most couldn't reach a single target. So they kept it under the radar.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Strength is not the decider in many battles. This is more of a Dungeons and Dragons trope than anything else. Decent games have Dexterity/Agility as the major 'to hit' modifier, as it should be, along with training and experience.

A giant cleaver may well cause untold hurt, however, if a lithe fencer has already stuck his/her sword through your throat and/or innards, well, all the strength wouldn't help in the world.

 

[Naked Ninja]

I think what matters more is whether there will be gender-exclusive options (traits, advantages/disadvantages) during character creation with meaningful reaction from game world.

I'm not against gender specific traits, so long as it adds flavour instead of being a trait which is obviously a no-brainer for a specific build of character (say, a trait that is male specific and is super awesome for warriors, so that the only reason you wouldn't pick it when building a warrior is because you're not playing a male. )

(BTW, if you guys have any suggestions for traits, feel free to post your ideas, they may get added, so long as they are't lulzy crap.)

Outside traits and the like, the world reacts to your character gender, both positively and negatively. Factions and characters will treat the genders according to their prejudices, and the world itself isn't all PC, there are plenty of Lyric Suite-alikes and there are even more characters who get super helpful and friendly if they see you've got a pair of tits. There are gender-specific quest paths.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Which is why fantasy usually sucks for relying on such tropes instead of showing how ordinary men and women rise to greatness despite the odds as opposed to bypassing the odds because they are so inherently Awesome!, where the former has far too many examples in history, possibly more than most if not all fantasy literature combined.

When was the last time any RPG had gender-based stat difference anyway?

Eschalon 2. It gave more strenght to men. But more dexterity to women in turn.

Which is bullshit too, women aren't more dexterous at shit.

I remember archery competitions when I was younger, the organization enforced some affirmative action bullshit to let girls play. But they performed so miserably that it was an embarassment, most couldn't reach a single target. So they kept it under the radar.

Archery takes more strength than dexterity I hate to tell you.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Strength is not the decider in many battles. This is more of a Dungeons and Dragons trope than anything else. Decent games have Dexterity/Agility as the major 'to hit' modifier, as it should be, along with training and experience.

Except men are also more dexterous and agile then women.

 

[Haba]

There is a reason why most rape involve men abusing women. You aren't likely to see men coming out of the household with a blackeye and bloody face.

No, they'll come feet first after being stabbed/mauled in their sleep (1).

Hell, in pussified western socialist countries femmes are rapidly catching up to men in spousal violence charts.

*1) "Violence by Intimates Analysis of Data on Crimes by Current or Former Spouses, Boyfriends, and Girlfriends". US Department of Justice.

Also: http://www.menweb.org/battered/

 

[Humanity has risen!]

If different stats for different sexes is sexist, then different stats for different races is racist.

Think you misread me. I didn't consider different stats 'sexist'. I just think, for the purposes of escapist entertainment and power fantasy/wish fulfillment, it's fine for women to be able to build characters that stand equal to the males in terms of physical power. They can make a 'Shannon the Barbarian' that's every bit a match for Conan, if they want to. It's their game and their fantasy, in that regard.

If you want to make a female fighter and feel that women should be a little weaker than men, feel free to spend less points on Strength.

Come on now, backpedaling much? It's pretty clear that you said women's real-world inferiority was nothing but unfair prejudice.

That was her instinctive reaction, based upon her prior experiences. Women are seen as lesser, even in escapist fantasy and ‘play’, even, to a degree, to themselves. That disturbs me. I’ve made my fair share of off-colour or misogynistic jokes in my time, but always in the spirit of the jibe, the good-natured war of the sexes. Men bemoan women, women roll their eyes at men, we all carry on knowing that we’re all really ‘in love with the enemy’, yes?

I want to tease, not to instill an instinctive sense of inferiority. I’m happy for women to be the heroes of their own stories, for them to be the Lady Knight who rescues the fainting Prince, in their own personal imaginings. Fantasy worlds have always been my refuge since I was a child, the daydreams I go to, to escape from the hum-drum of daily life. Games, I see as a natural extension of that. They’ve enabled me to live out any number of personal power fantasies. The idea that female gamers can’t leave the burden of real world gender prejudice behind them even in escapist fantasy horrifies and saddens me.