RPG's that can be deep enough like books and movies.

[Cael]

Richard Garriott obviously felt quite passionate about the views that he was putting in the game, as shown by the abrupt change from Ultima 3 to 4.

Garriott is on record saying that he wanted U4 to be different because he was getting feedback that killing an end boss in a game was too cliche or Evil or violent or something similar. Hence U4.

He seems to be quite serious about it with the conversations I've had with him.

I have never spoken to him nor seen him speak about it and so will have to take your word for it.

Free speech comes with free criticism. Garriott, unlike you, is able to handle that criticism.

Criticism is one thing. Using the media establishment to hound people who don't have the same view as you is another. There is something psychologically unhinged about the way SJW pack huint people who don't follow their brand of orthodoxy.

He stood up to people who would have thought that his games were crap and his dreams unrealistic (e.g. his family), and is quite involved in political activism for the Democratic Party. I don't think he would sell his convictions out like that.

Again, there is a difference between standing up to a difference of opinion and opening yourself up to pack attacks, vandalism, physical attacks and worse.

 

[AbounI]

ITS taught me that only 0.03% know who to trust in the gaming industry.
Miltiades proves one shouldn't trust what any smiling man can promise you.

 

[fantadomat]

None for me,different media. I read book for the imagination part,in game you see it and there is no need to imagine it . As for good writing... BG games,Torment,Deus ex,Thief. Spider games have some really good realistic dialogue,the guys behind Technomancer. Witcher 3 have some great writing too,it have one of the best quests in a video game. Closest to a book for me is King of dragon pass.

 

[Iznaliu]

Garriott is on record saying that he wanted U4 to be different because he was getting feedback that killing an end boss in a game was too cliche or Evil or violent or something similar. Hence U4.

Well that was one element of his game, the personal convictions he had, especially after reading about letters from fans of the previous Ultima games that rejoiced in violence, were definitely an element in making U4 such a radical departure from previous Ultima games. If he had just done it to respond to criticism, then it wouldn't have been so deeply integrated into the design.

Criticism is one thing. Using the media establishment to hound people who don't have the same view as you is another

It's an opinion column; newspapers traditionally represent a wide variety of views within opinion columns, including views that contradict or serve as a response to previous opinion columns. If GG can't get its own opinion column, then maybe that says more about GG than the NYT.

There is something psychologically unhinged about the way SJW pack huint people who don't follow their brand of orthodoxy.

You need to understand that many anti-GG people view GG as dangerous, both in general and to the health of the gaming industry.

Again, there is a difference between standing up to a difference of opinion and opening yourself up to pack attacks, vandalism, physical attacks and worse.

Do you not remember the (then) straight-laced Garriott's account of the company culture at Sierra? He ultimately left that company due to differences with the management, despite having nowhere else to go. It is also noticeable that GG is far from morally pure.

 

[Cael]

It is also noticeable that GG is far from morally pure.

And so therefore it should never be supported at all and it will never have any good points to make? Got news for you: good luck finding ANYTHING that is morally "pure" and the fact tha SJWs define THEMSLEVES as morally pure and believe that justifies all the EVIL they do is why there is so much hate towards them.

 

[Doktor Best]

Video games taught me that everyone has some loot on them, so if I can actually farm normal people to get something of high value, why wouldn't I just kill some bandits in RL and live normally from loot I've looted?
Fucking society, in games they would at least thank me, or even give a reward. In RL everyone goes mad beceause of it and want me thrown to jail.

I have a vague feeling that in a society like that, you would be the one providing the loot (just like the rest of us here)

 

[fantadomat]

Video games taught me that everyone has some loot on them, so if I can actually farm normal people to get something of high value, why wouldn't I just kill some bandits in RL and live normally from loot I've looted?
Fucking society, in games they would at least thank me, or even give a reward. In RL everyone goes mad beceause of it and want me thrown to jail.

I have a vague feeling that in a society like that, you would be the one providing the loot (just like the rest of us here)

You can always walk the dark allays during the night and hit people with bricks in the head.But you must have some mighty high stealth skills.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Video games taught me that everyone has some loot on them, so if I can actually farm normal people to get something of high value, why wouldn't I just kill some bandits in RL and live normally from loot I've looted?
Fucking society, in games they would at least thank me, or even give a reward. In RL everyone goes mad beceause of it and want me thrown to jail.

Reminded me of:

 

[fantadomat]

Video games taught me that everyone has some loot on them, so if I can actually farm normal people to get something of high value, why wouldn't I just kill some bandits in RL and live normally from loot I've looted?
Fucking society, in games they would at least thank me, or even give a reward. In RL everyone goes mad beceause of it and want me thrown to jail.

Reminded me of:

The good old animes.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Whoa, I just called "friend" to someone who blame jews for the decline of western civilization !!! Hate speech is possible here?

Edit: nevermind, just saw that this forum is full of nazis and white supremacists. So sad. I will not be part of this.

In my country we use a legal doctrine, coming from the Constitucional Court of Germany, that crimininalizes hate speech. This is a very serious issue. Therefore, I will not be part of this, in respect of all the jews, and other minorities a lot of users here use to offend.

I am out.

so...you won't be joining our book club and reading Mein Kampf with us then?

 

[fantadomat]

Whoa, I just called "friend" to someone who blame jews for the decline of western civilization !!! Hate speech is possible here?

Edit: nevermind, just saw that this forum is full of nazis and white supremacists. So sad. I will not be part of this.

In my country we use a legal doctrine, coming from the Constitucional Court of Germany, that crimininalizes hate speech. This is a very serious issue. Therefore, I will not be part of this, in respect of all the jews, and other minorities a lot of users here use to offend.

I am out.

so...you won't be joining our book club and reading Mein Kampf with us then?

Ohhhh noooo we lost another one. Oh well lets go back to practising marches and salutes.

 

[Cael]

Ohhhh noooo we lost another one. Oh well lets go back to practising marches and salutes.

What the Hell?

Listen, Buckaroo Banzai. It is called a SECRET CLUB for a reason. Stop bringing home strays!

 

[fantadomat]

Ohhhh noooo we lost another one. Oh well lets go back to practising marches and salutes.

What the Hell?

Listen, Buckaroo Banzai. It is called a SECRET CLUB for a reason. Stop bringing home strays!

But,but to become part of the SECRET CLUB you first must become part of the normal club.

 

[Infinitron]

The idea that Ultima's Eight Virtues are an expression of Richard Garriott's social conservatism is ahistorical. He's as much as a social conservative as the legions of leftist hippies who idolized J.R.R. Tolkien in the 1960s. Values have changed and you're now seeing something the author didn't intend.

The Digital Antiquarian has a good article on the roots of Ultima's philosophy: http://www.filfre.net/2014/07/the-road-to-iv/

It's particularly relevant to the Codex that one reason Garriott came up with the Eight Virtues was as a corrective to the gameplay style of min-maxing grognards, whose approach to roleplaying he despised.

 

[KyivAfter12am]

One area where RPGs can work as well or even better than books and movies is immersing the player into ethical systems different from our own. A good example of this is King of Dragon Pass. If you play this game according to the humanist, pacifist and globalist ideals of our world, you won't get very far. You have to be ready to enslave, steal, raid and execute if the game world's ethics demand it.

The advantage of RPGs is that they can still fly under the radar of modern culture of judgement and censorship, at least the smaller indie ones. The bigger titles are already losing this luxury, e.g. when Witcher 3 was criticised for not including enough non-white characters.

Other good examples are Crusader Kings and Expeditions: Viking.

 

[Kev Inkline]

Whoa, I just called "friend" to someone who blame jews for the decline of western civilization !!! Hate speech is possible here?

Edit: nevermind, just saw that this forum is full of nazis and white supremacists. So sad. I will not be part of this.

In my country we use a legal doctrine, coming from the Constitucional Court of Germany, that crimininalizes hate speech. This is a very serious issue. Therefore, I will not be part of this, in respect of all the jews, and other minorities a lot of users here use to offend.

I am out.

I like this particular rating:

 

[Cael]

But,but to become part of the SECRET CLUB you first must become part of the normal club.

Don't make me come over there and "normal club" you *waves cattle prod*

 

[fantadomat]

But,but to become part of the SECRET CLUB you first must become part of the normal club.

Don't make me come over there and "normal club" you *waves cattle prod*

But the normal club is the nazi club and the secret one is for the marching and saluting.

PS:"Fuck that shit we are getting far too off topic.

 

[Cael]

But the normal club is the nazi club and the secret one is for the marching and saluting.

Oh God. He's mixed it all up again. To the ovens with him!

 

[ERYFKRAD]

The idea that Ultima's Eight Virtues are an expression of Richard Garriott's social conservatism is ahistorical. He's as much as a social conservative as the legions of leftist hippies who idolized J.R.R. Tolkien in the 1960s. Values have changed and you're now seeing something the author didn't intend.

The Digital Antiquarian has a good article on the roots of Ultima's philosophy: http://www.filfre.net/2014/07/the-road-to-iv/

It's particularly relevant to the Codex that one reason Garriott came up with the Eight Virtues was as a corrective to the gameplay style of min-maxing grognards, whose approach to roleplaying he despised.

So Garriott is a storyfag and mondblut is right.

 

[mondblut]

RPGs taught me that people fall into three categories: tools to exploit, obstacles to overcome, and scenery to ignore.

 

[Wayward Son]

Video games taught me that everyone has some loot on them, so if I can actually farm normal people to get something of high value, why wouldn't I just kill some bandits in RL and live normally from loot I've looted?
Fucking society, in games they would at least thank me, or even give a reward. In RL everyone goes mad beceause of it and want me thrown to jail.

Reminded me of:

The good old animes.

Which good old anime, if I may be so curious as to inquire?

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Video games taught me that everyone has some loot on them, so if I can actually farm normal people to get something of high value, why wouldn't I just kill some bandits in RL and live normally from loot I've looted?
Fucking society, in games they would at least thank me, or even give a reward. In RL everyone goes mad beceause of it and want me thrown to jail.

Reminded me of:

The good old animes.

Which good old anime, if I may be so curious as to inquire?

Slayers. Main heroine is a splendid bastard there.

 

[Leitz]

They can't be. Simple as that. THEY CAN'T BE.

 

[SausageInYourFace]

Video games are a medium just like movies and books so of course there is nothing inherently in them that would stop them from offering meaningful content.

I do have trouble however, coming up with moments, let alone whole games, who really made me stop and think, really engaged me intellectually or emotionally, or of which I could say that they shaped me as a real human bean in any meaningful way.

Considering the incredible possibilities of the medium - e.g. the engagement of the recipient, who in fact becomes a participant and agent - the medium has been pretty inept so far to offer a lot of really meaningful content. I wonder why that is.