RPGs that are unanimously praised by people of refined taste that you never could finish.

[Jasede]

I am not sure; I honestly never survived being hit by a Flamethrower. I only played this game twice, both times on realistic. It was good enough to be quite memorable despite that, so I hope you stick with it a little longer.

 

[RK47]

Well, I bought the game, I do intend to finish it once. and maybe hit DE2 - before getting on with Missing Link. Shd be quite a ride. I'm in the midst of playing Dungeon Siege sage (1,2,3) too, but man that game level up system...irredeemable.

 

[Grim Monk]

Should I pick up a fire extinguisher then?

Yes, use them to put the flames out if your on fire.

Also, they can be used to blind enemies instead of the pepper spray.

 

[RK47]

I just got to NYC . threaten some civvies about Ambrosia conversation they had in the tavern. They're not talking - drew my gun, and suddenly the bartender and another patron jumped on me. I killed the bartender but the patron can't seem to die. He even took a planted LAM, no problem.

 

[Jasede]

Invincible NPCs! What is this, a Bioware game?

 

[Yoshiyyahu]

yeah, hes kinda important to the story

 

[Ulminati]

I just got to NYC . threaten some civvies about Ambrosia conversation they had in the tavern. They're not talking - drew my gun, and suddenly the bartender and another patron jumped on me. I killed the bartender but the patron can't seem to die. He even took a planted LAM, no problem.

The sign at the entrance did say no guns. The bartender is augmented as fuck. also plot armor npc. It sucks but there you go.

 

[DraQ]

Flamer can be put out with extinguishers, I think jumping into water does the trick too.

Realistic? Nope. I just want a quick thrill and revisit (See if I can finish it. Ever).

Too bad. Realistic plays a lot better actually. Smoother, faster, more tense and more enjoyable. It's not damage sponge difficulty everyone so despises in games, it simply balances the rules for you and the NPCs making it pretty . Paradoxically it's also lighter on your medkit supply as it focuses less on damage control and more on damage avoidance.
Also paradoxically it's less frustrating because it conditions you into playing well really fast, so you won't have to put up with yourself missing from 2m away and press on cursing your ineptitude and scarcity of medkits - instead you will avoid such situations because they will make you reload, and soon enough you won't even notice the problem, opting for solutions that don't rely on you trying to hit a moving target while running around in the open.

And not playing on realistic gives everyone else this nice perk of being able to call you a faggot if they so desire.

Seeing how the aim works reminds me why I hate it so much. Advanced Pistol skill and I took 2 full second just to get a bead on the guy. If the guy drops out of sight - I have to wait for it to recenter again. That's bad. This is a pistol. Not an assault rifle

Too bad DX1 isn't STALKER and doesn't have handling stat.

I didn't run, I moved slow. Crouched. Nothing, it makes no difference whether JC moved in quick or slow.

It actually matters maybe not how fast, but how much you move, so if you make baby steps, you should be able to retain accuracy. Use crosshair to monitor your accuracy and try keeping it narrow enough. It's not a run and gun game unless you have at least advanced in weapon skill, laser sight, some recoil damper and accuracy mods, ballistic armour aug and preferably aggressive defence system for defeating heavier foes. Run fast and targeting augs are also helpful.

Upgrading weapon skills is actually desirable even if you have laser sight - apart from accuracy it reduces recoil (AR, for example, is next to useless without LS and advanced skill), reload time (I think), and in case of heavy weapons movement penalty. There is also damage scaler involved, but it's not outrageously huge.

We're too hung up on this 'RPG = Stats allocation' mantra = Good. Deus Ex didn't need this. Mass Effect didn't need it either.

But tell me - how is being frustrated at missing from pistol in DX1 because you moved a bit and have shitty skill any different than being frustrated because your character missed a dude one hex away from pistol in Fallout (twice)?

One point you may have is that skills in DX1 were poorly implemented because they don't affect the routes and problem solving that much which would be true, but this happens to not apply to weapon skills as they actually matter quite a lot for most of the range - other skills usually reach plateau early and few of them matter.

 

[RK47]

Because fallout is a top down RPG that is turn based and doesn't even rely on the player reflexes - or even time limit and real time movement as a factor? I just don't see why it's the same shit just because it's stats driven. Pistol grip is now stats? It's different. If you continue to call them the same, then we'll be forever disagreeing it. Just look at what Bethesda done to Fallout 3 - a crazed hybrid between VATS and real time combat that rewards more damage with higher skill point (isn't that the same as Deus Ex?) It's shit. It's not the same.

 

[Wyrmlord]

RK47
Higher weapon skill does not mean more damage in Deus Ex. It simply increases accuracy when still and while moving and reduces recoil.

Generally, the player is not expected to use any weapon in which he does not have maximum proficiency. This may mean sacrificing lockpicking and multitool skills, but since lockpicks and multitools are so abundant and since passwords and keys can be found by any diligent player, it is not a problem.

I have found that any combination of skills in Deus Ex is perfectly viable, and there is no biased preference towards any standard set of skills.

 

[DraQ]

Because fallout is a top down RPG that is turn based and doesn't even rely on the player reflexes - or even time limit and real time movement as a factor? I just don't see why it's the same shit just because it's stats driven. Pistol grip is now stats? It's different.

How is it different? If I'm aiming a gun IRL I know what am I looking at and what am I aiming at - my sight is my crosshair. My ability to keep the weapon trained on target I'm looking at and to aim it quickly and accurately will depend on my stats. My stats will also control how well I manage its recoil and how fast I can reload.

How is it different from RPG on top of FPS model?

Just look at what Bethesda done to Fallout 3 - a crazed hybrid between VATS and real time combat that rewards more damage with higher skill point (isn't that the same as Deus Ex?) It's shit. It's not the same.

No, it isn't the same because damage scaler in DX1 is pretty cosmetic and of minor consequence when it comes to using weapons effectively. Even if I don't like it it doesn't really matter all that much because even on untrained most weapons are pretty fucking lethal when they hit. The problem is hitting, especially in dynamic, actiony situations. Which is actually pretty realistic, because even a noob can be pretty accurate IRL if he's given optimal conditions and can take his time to aim, let alone stuff like using the opportune environment objects to support and stabilize his gun.

 

[RK47]

Pistol
Trained: You can use Pistols, Crossbows and Stealth Pistols.
Advanced: None.
Master: None.

Usage upgrades:

Untrained - Basic accuracy
- Basic damage
Trained: - Basic accuracy + 4%
- Basic damage +10%
Advanced: - Basic accuracy +12%
- Basic damage +25%
Master: - Basic accuracy +25%
- Basic damage +50%

 

[Wyrmlord]

Pistol
Trained: You can use Pistols, Crossbows and Stealth Pistols.
Advanced: None.
Master: None.

Usage upgrades:

Untrained - Basic accuracy
- Basic damage
Trained: - Basic accuracy + 4%
- Basic damage +10%
Advanced: - Basic accuracy +12%
- Basic damage +25%
Master: - Basic accuracy +25%
- Basic damage +50%

All the time I spent playing this game, and I had absolutely no idea.

My copy of DX came without a manual, so that's my excuse.

 

[RK47]

So...reflex based aim in first person shooter with zero-in timer based on stats in real time is the same as a game where you just hover a mouse cursor over a target, see the chance of hitting and click to spend AP + roll die?
I really don't see the similarity.

This aimed shot with % chance to hit mechanic is the same whether top down or first person, yes.

But outside VATS? No.

 

[Infinitron]

Wait till you see how they "solved" the problem of invincible NPCs in Invisible War.

 

[DraQ]

Wait till you see how they "solved" the problem of invincible NPCs in Invisible War.

How?


Wait, do I want to know?

 

[Infinitron]

Wait till you see how they "solved" the problem of invincible NPCs in Invisible War.

How?


Wait, do I want to know?

Whenever you meet plot-critical NPCs, they're always behind bulletproof glass windows.

 

[DraQ]

So...reflex based aim in first person shooter with zero-in timer based on stats in real time is the same as a game where you just hover a mouse cursor over a target, see the chance of hitting and click to spend AP + roll die?
I really don't see the similarity.

In both cases you use interface to specify the action and let the character skill determine outcome.
Both are pretty good abstractions of how this kind of stuff works (with FPS aiming being less abstract and more detailed one).
And finally, both can make people butthurt for completely stupid reasons.

Whenever you meet plot-critical NPCs, they're always behind bulletproof glass windows.

Has anyone made the trollface texture mod for those windows?

 

[Infinitron]

Speaking of textures, a guy named John P made a texture upgrade mod for DX:IW (and also Thief Deadly Shadows). It's excellent, although it makes the long loading times even longer.

(Somewhat bizarrely, this same John P seems to have recently resurfaced as a hardcore DX:HR hater.)

Unfortunately, his website is usually down for exceeded bandwidth.

 

[DraQ]

It's excellent, although it makes the long loading times even longer.

I'd imagine the main failing to be somethig different, though:

It's for IW.

 

[circ]

(Somewhat bizarrely, this same John P seems to have recently resurfaced as a hardcore DX:HR hater.)

Sounds like a sensible man if you ask me.

 

[DraQ]

(Somewhat bizarrely, this same John P seems to have recently resurfaced as a hardcore DX:HR hater.)

Sounds like a sensible man if you ask me.

Wasting time making IW retextures but hating HR?

 

[Infinitron]

My mistake. There is a "John P" who hates DX:HR and frequently comments on RPS, but it's not the same guy.

 

[Roguey]

So...reflex based aim in first person shooter with zero-in timer based on stats in real time is the same as a game where you just hover a mouse cursor over a target, see the chance of hitting and click to spend AP + roll die?
I really don't see the similarity.

In both cases you use interface to specify the action and let the character skill determine outcome.
Both are pretty good abstractions of how this kind of stuff works (with FPS aiming being less abstract and more detailed one).
And finally, both can make people butthurt for completely stupid reasons.

It's a failure of an abstraction because the game is already expecting you to use your reflexes to aim in their general direction and then undermining it. Plus waiting seconds for a reticule to close has never been enjoyable, ever. That is not a thing to be enjoyed, merely tolerated if there are other worthwhile aspects.

Fortunately non-autistic game developers like Josh Sawyer know better.

 

[Juuto]

Risen.

I decided to become a mage and then I realized I go OOM in like 3 seconds and I have to spend all my money on fucking potions or gathering shit. I was mad.