Incline RPG Codex's Top 50 cRPGs - Results and Reviews

[Higher Animal]

Nah, it promotes circle-jerking.

BUT CERTAIN GAMES DON'T BELONG IN THE TOP 50 RPG LIST!

Feels like we're giving a handicap to the pre-1997 games... also, we have a separate voting for consoles, and all that talk about "Codex is for PC RPGs"

We should handicap earlier games. It's entirely possible that Betrayal at Krondor is the greatest rpg ever made but will never be reflected in a list by people who have never and will never play it.

Nah, I think it's cool to see their voting results over the years. Also, with a long result list like ours, the Top isn't as important.

It would be totally cool to have a KKKodex seal of approval whereby it is confirmed that certain games just are excellence. Fallout/Planescape will be in the top spot for the next fifteen years. After that, newfags will up vote some J.E. Sawyer rock-paper-scissors simulator as the top game and what happened to Betrayal at Krondor will happen to Fallout/Planescape.

 

[felipepepe]

We should handicap earlier games. It's entirely possible that Betrayal at Krondor is the greatest rpg ever made but will never be reflected in a list by people who have never and will never play it.

I understand your concern... in the same way there's hidden gems that few played and will vote. I think that the Bayesian average is better to solve this than a hard handicap.

 

[tuluse]

We should handicap earlier games. It's entirely possible that Betrayal at Krondor is the greatest rpg ever made but will never be reflected in a list by people who have never and will never play it.

I understand your concern... in the same way there's hidden gems that few played and will vote. I think that the Bayesian average is better to solve this than a hard handicap.

Bayes is bad unless people can vote 0, and vote for as many games as they want. It's the wrong statistical tool for this.

I would like to see the codex's favorite rpgs of different eras. I've noted before we basically have 3 decades of rps to rate at this point and could separate them into thirds.

 

[Bubbles]

unless people can vote 0, and vote for as many games as they want

Let's do it.

 

[HiddenX]

To get things really right you have cluster the votes at least in 2 ways:

a) for several game eras: 1976-1980; 1981-1985; 1986-1990;...
b) for the current age groups of the voters: 11...15; 16...20; 21..25;...

that implies:
vote for a CRPG top 10 for each game era
and
each voter has to tell his true age (sorry ladies!)

 

[felipepepe]

Asking for age is silly. Some people may be anti-antediluvians and only played popamole shit, while some newfags are doing RPG peregrinations and trying out old games.

If you want to divide games, use Windows & pre-Windows game. That's usually around the 95-96 line usually drawn anyway... irrational fear of DOSbox and all that.

 

[HiddenX]

Why is this silly?

With that data you could exactly see which age group favors which games on average.
Nothing wrong with young gamers trying old games or grandfathers that started playing in 2010.

And for old gamers like me it is really easier to make several top tens for each era, than one top 10 for the last 30 years.

Example:
Bards Tale 2 would be much higher in the ranks on average in my age group than in yours. Because we played the game on release date on a shiny new Amiga 2000 and not on DosBox or WinUAE, without maps on the internet, exchanging tips & tricks on our way to school.

 

[Bubbles]

Some people may be anti-antediluvians and only played popamole shit, while some newfags are doing RPG peregrinations and trying out old games.

You never know unless you ask.

 

[felipepepe]

Bards Tale 2 would be much higher in the ranks on average in my age group than in yours. Because we played the game on release date on a shiny new Amiga 2000 and not on DosBox or WinUAE, without maps on the internet, exchanging tips & tricks on our way to school.

But then we're rating games on nostalgia, no? We've moved from "Great RPGs" to "RPGs that were great at the time"...

 

[HiddenX]

You can call it Nostalgia - I would call it: the right ranking of the game in their era - it's only fair.

I think it is somewhat unfair to compare games that are in complete different technology eras.
Not every gamer can abstract from that and rank on the gameplay only.
And even if we look only on the gameplay. Some things were simply not possible in 1985 that are possible today because they had less memory or disc space.

 

[Fenris 2.0]

I think the lists should show how much fun the games are today... while I loved i.e. the Bard's Tale Games back in the Day I wouldn't play them nowadays and I wouldn't recommend some young folks to play them either; they are better served with Fallout and Planescape Torment
On the other Side I still would rate Wizardry VI and the Realms of Arcania Triology far above the Games released in the last few years.

 

[octavius]

Bards Tale 2 would be much higher in the ranks on average in my age group than in yours. Because we played the game on release date on a shiny new Amiga 2000 and not on DosBox or WinUAE, without maps on the internet, exchanging tips & tricks on our way to school.

And we loved having to map the game on paper, being constantly harassed by random encounters every five seconds with monster having all kinds of nasty special attacks, anti-magic zones, darkness! areas, spinners and traps.
Tell that to kids today and they won't believe you.

Bards Tale 2 would be much higher in the ranks on average in my age group than in yours. Because we played the game on release date on a shiny new Amiga 2000 and not on DosBox or WinUAE, without maps on the internet, exchanging tips & tricks on our way to school.

But then we're rating games on nostalgia, no? We've moved from "Great RPGs" to "RPGs that were great at the time"...

It's only nostalgia if you only played it back then. The true test of time can only be done by (re)playing them many years laters.

 

[HiddenX]

Fenris 2.0

So you would rate them by current "playability" ?
That's a nice useful rating, too. But it doesn't feel all right for a real top-list.

It's something like: I don't recommend "Love Me Do" from the Beatles, because it was recorded in mono.

 

[Fenris 2.0]

Fenris 2.0

So you would rate them by current "playability" ?
That's a nice useful rating, too. But it doesn't feel all right for a real top-list.

It's something like: I don't recommend "Love Me Do" from the Beatles, because it was recorded in mono.

This would only work, when "Love me Do" would only have one and a half lines because a longer Song would have been to long for a record.

 

[garren]

We need the codex wiki up and running where we can have all this shit documented. Just start adding basic info (this top RPG list is a good start), then later we can make all sorts of edits and recommendations based on year, theme and whatnot. Best of X. Games other than RPGs that are worth playing (like, say, thief). Section on how easy the game is to get up and running, modding, general tips and starting out tips, how easy it is to deal with the interface fuckery (because if there's one thing that games generally are better in nowadays it's usability, some old game interfaces can drive you nuts, of course there's always dumbfuckery in some new games too like Skyrim for example)

Edit access only to members who are viewed worthwhile and have spent some time on the codex. If someone not with edit access posts some good suggestions/info, add them to the list. If a troll sooner or later gets edit access and posts shit, it's a wiki so reverting changes is pretty easy. Own thread for the wiki where people can discuss the direction the wiki should take. The wiki can also host all these yearly or quasi-yearly voting polls with commentary.

 

[octavius]

some old games interfaces can drive you nuts

Wizard's Crown.

 

[HiddenX]

you can rank games in many ways:

1) overall rank (very subjective -> maybe a mix from points 2) to 5) )
2) rank in their own era (more objective and fair) -> top 5 games every 5 years: 1976-1980; 1981-1985; 1986-1990;...
3) playability today (can it be run/emulated on modern computers?; is gameplay still fun?)
4a) historical value gameplay (invented/implemented new gameplay elements)
4b) historical value technology (invented/implemented new technologies)
5) influence to the genre (has this game many (game)-followers? Has it become a blueprint?)
...

 

[nihil]

you can rank games in many ways:

1) overall rank (very subjective -> maybe a mix from points 2) to 5) )
2) rank in their own era (more objective and fair) -> top 5 games every 5 years: 1976-1980; 1981-1985; 1986-1990;...
3) playability today (can it be run/emulated on modern computers?; is gameplay still fun?)
4a) historical value gameplay (invented/implemented new gameplay elements)
4b) historical value technology (invented/implemented new technologies)
5) influence to the genre (has this game many (game)-followers? Has it become a blueprint?)
...

How does the rank in #2 suddenly become more objective than #1, just because it's tied to an era?

Historical importance is noteworthy and interesting, but it has nothing to do with rating, in my opinion.

I feel the only sensible way to rate a game is to give it a subjective score based on how entertaining/rewarding it is to play, today.

 

[granit]

Darksouls better than Daggerfall in what perverted universe?

 

[Phage]

Darksouls better than Daggerfall in what perverted universe?

This one and every other real universe.

 

[Jasede]

Gee Phage, you're so dumb. Next you'll claim Fallout is a better game than Temple of Apshai.

 

[Black_Willow]

The list is ok. Dark Souls is better than Daggerfall and Witcher is better than Realms of Arkania.

 

[Phage]

Gee Phage, you're so dumb. Next you'll claim Fallout is a better game than Temple of Apshai.

I haven't played Temple of Apshai, so no, I won't make that claim.

Daggerfall on the other hand is pretty pleb tier unless you rate it in a vacuum for when it was released.

 

[Jasede]

It was just a joke; see, Temple of Apshai might be historically relevant, but it's relatively sub-par compared to newer RPGs like Wizardry.

 

[tuluse]

Sure thing, next you'll tell me Planescape Torment has a better story than pedit5.