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Incline RPG Codex's Top 50 cRPGs - Results and Reviews

felipepepe

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Someone else can try that next year. Grab the Top 100 games from this list, add whatever was released since then and make a online survey for people to rate every game.

Personally, I think that very few people will spare the time to do all this and that there will be some serious trolling, so I'm not into doing it. But I would be curious about the results.
 

hicksman

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You guys need to do a survey and collectively brofist the results of a What is an RPG survey that way you can stop spending 50% of your forum posts debating what is an isn't one and move on with your lives.
 

tuluse

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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Someone else can try that next year. Grab the Top 100 games from this list, add whatever was released since then and make a online survey for people to rate every game.

Personally, I think that very few people will spare the time to do all this and that there will be some serious trolling, so I'm not into doing it. But I would be curious about the results.
I agree with everything. I'm just saying unless you do that the bayesian average is a flawed at best tool.
 

HiddenX

The Elder Spy
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Divinity: Original Sin Shadorwun: Hong Kong
The Codex list gives a good overview over the last 30 years of good CRPGs. New fans of the genre can pick some titles, buy them on Ebay or flea markets and play them.

I think it is important to show younger/new fans, that CRPGs were not invented with Oblivion or World of Warcraft and older CRPG elements/mechanics can be very interesting, challenging and fun.
 

LundB

Mistakes were made.
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While it is true that many on the Codex don't seem to have touched any RPGs older than Fallout, and are a bit too accepting of RtwPshit, this is hardly a new or shocking revelation, and I'm not sure why GreatOne is presenting it as one.

The truth is, the Codex has never been especially 'old-school'. The Codex was founded in 2002, and back then the Infinity Engine games and Fallout (it was only 5 years old at the time, about as old as Mass Effect 2 is now) were contemporary, not 'old-school' in any way. While there were people who played and discussed older games (and there still are plenty, it's not like you don't find threads about Wizardry, Dark Sun, Gold Box, etc. anymore), for better or for worse a big part of the focus is and has always been on the ones of the late 90s and early 00s. Most of the later games that the average Codexer tends to gush about are the ones that remind them most of those games, not earlier ones. The only reason some people consider the Codex old-school now is because these games, games that were pretty new when the Codex started, are now considered old by many in the age of Xbox. As far as I know, the bulk of the Codex has never pretended otherwise, so I'm not seeing much of an 'ooh, caught you, you popamole faggitz' moment here.
 
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octavius

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I wonder how the list would look like if only counting the votes from the oldfags (those who were already playing CRPGs in the '80s or early '90s)?
 

Deuce Traveler

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
I wonder how the list would look like if only counting the votes from the oldfags (those who were already playing CRPGs in the '80s or early '90s)?

I think we need to ask @felipepe to do another vote like this again, but only for pre-Fallout games (pre-1997). This should give an indication of the best classic games.

We shouldn't push for it until the summer, though, since doing so now would take effort and attention away from this current all time list and dilute the audience.
 

Zetor

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Yep, there are just WAY too many good games even for a top 50 list... and a top 100 list from everyone would be kinda overkill. As I posted earlier, I consider (f'rex) DA:O "decent" and certainly worth playing, but there are over 30-35 games just from the pre-1997 era that I'd put above it! Of course the "rate/review every single game in our database" system would work best in the long run.

And yeah, this list is great for its intended purpose (gathering a list of really good RPGs for people who haven't experienced them yet)... which is a worthwhile goal on its own, imo.
 
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SausageInYourFace

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Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit. Pathfinder: Wrath
Not that hard to grasp tuluse, biowares popularity (negative as it may be) had a positive impact on the votes it got, which is all i was saying when someone implied otherwise.

This may be what you meant (a statement in itself debatable) but it is not what you said at first, Lynn. In a response to statement of mine, you said that if the vote had been anonymous, DA:O may have gotten less votes, thus implying that people deliberately voted for it in an non-anonymous vote, presumably so others may see they are voting for a BW game:

I wonder how significantly it would really change if the votes were anonymous. One guess is that DA:O would probably end up higher on the list.


You later statement that DA:O got more votes because it is from a well known company may be defensible (though I think it is unlikely) but it has nothing to do with the vote being anonymous or not.
 

Lhynn

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Not that hard to grasp tuluse, biowares popularity (negative as it may be) had a positive impact on the votes it got, which is all i was saying when someone implied otherwise.

This may be what you meant (a statement in itself debatable) but it is not what you said at first, Lhynn. In a response to statement of mine, you said that if the vote had been anonymous, DA:O may have gotten less votes, thus implying that people deliberately voted for it in an non-anonymous vote, presumably so others may see they are voting for a BW game:

I wonder how significantly it would really change if the votes were anonymous. One guess is that DA:O would probably end up higher on the list.


You later statement that DA:O got more votes because it is from a well known company may be defensible (though I think it is unlikely) but it has nothing to do with the vote being anonymous or not.
Fair enough, i had forgotten about the original post. :retarded:
I just meant to say that it could have gone either way, as shown by the average no voter felt strongly about the title. Highly doubt anyone was protecting their reputation in this thing (and if they were, then they should rethink their life).

And as for my other point yes, it tend to believe publicity works and that no one is immune to it. DA:O is kind of forgettable, but we have hundreds of pages about bioware fuck ups, so they are easier to remember than other mundane shit that hasnt been talk about it years.
 

TripJack

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It is, at least relatively.
relative to what? when you're not grinding through the mindnumbing hordes of wow-style trash mobs you're doing a mindnumbing tank and spank against wow-style bosses, tactical as fuckkkkk

Right now I'm trying to decide whether you're one of the "Fallout is tacticul lol"-guys or one of the "no rpgs r tacticul lol"-guys. I need info, so tell me more.
i thought i was the latter, but JA2 is apparently an RPG now so I suppose not
 

Servo

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lol I love that DAO comes before any of the SSI Gold Box games.

Edit: oshit Witcher also lol
 
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Reviews:

Now that we have 72 great cRPGs ranked, I'd like to add short recommendations/reviews for each game (maybe screenshots as well later), so one can decide what to play next. I asked for this on the DISCUSS thread and got various good entries (as well as some poetry), and now that the full list is out, I think we can finish this.

Just write a short review/recommendation of any of the 72 games (50 Top + 22 runner ups) you like, that will help people understand why that game is great. It should be short, one paragraph long at most, and posted in spoiler tags.

Here's a good example:

Baldur's Gate
Generally considered inferior to its much-acclaimed sequel, Baldur's Gate will let you embark on a journey through the Forgotten Realms' Sword Coast to discover a plot that is both personal an world-changing. And by Sword Coast I mean through every square foot of it, because, while not truly open world, the game has a huge number of wilderness locations. For most people, the sheer vastness of the world and relatively low density of content are BG1's major flaw, but some, myself included, consider these traits to be an advantage over Baldur's Gate 2 rather artificial quest overload, as it makes the world feel more believable and alive. Granted, the dungeons in this game are much less interesting, the fights much less epic and the loot much more sparse (again, a good thing in my book), but the adventure is just as true, if not more.
[
Nice! Great job!


I have to say that it pains me to see some true genre defining classics overshadowed by newer, arguably derivative games.
Reviews:

Now that we have 72 great cRPGs ranked, I'd like to add short recommendations/reviews for each game (maybe screenshots as well later), so one can decide what to play next. I asked for this on the DISCUSS thread and got various good entries (as well as some poetry), and now that the full list is out, I think we can finish this.

Just write a short review/recommendation of any of the 72 games (50 Top + 22 runner ups) you like, that will help people understand why that game is great. It should be short, one paragraph long at most, and posted in spoiler tags.

Here's a good example:

Baldur's Gate
Generally considered inferior to its much-acclaimed sequel, Baldur's Gate will let you embark on a journey through the Forgotten Realms' Sword Coast to discover a plot that is both personal an world-changing. And by Sword Coast I mean through every square foot of it, because, while not truly open world, the game has a huge number of wilderness locations. For most people, the sheer vastness of the world and relatively low density of content are BG1's major flaw, but some, myself included, consider these traits to be an advantage over Baldur's Gate 2 rather artificial quest overload, as it makes the world feel more believable and alive. Granted, the dungeons in this game are much less interesting, the fights much less epic and the loot much more sparse (again, a good thing in my book), but the adventure is just as true, if not more.

So, if you wanna spread your amazingly good taste to others, this is it!

My methods of analysis rely a great deal on comparisons. I nearly always explain something by means of something else. Doesn't lend itself well to these short, concise commentaries. But I'll give it a shot and you tell me if you want more.

Arcanum
Arcanum belongs to the "Elder Scrolls" family of open world exploration-driven cRPGs, where the action is carried out less through an overarching narrative and more through hundreds of stories emerging naturally from the interrelation of the world and its environs. It was the least polished and grimiest looking, underselling the contemporaneous Morrowind by a factor greater than 10 to 1. Nonetheless, it went on to become a cult classic and is often credited as the best of the bunch. The ghost of the Baldur's Gate 2 companion system is carried out in a host of NPCs that vary wildly in the quality of their back stories and personalities, through dialogue boxes checked by fitful progression, clumsy interfaces, and random triggers that nonetheless communicate a charm that resonates strongly with the themes and norms of the setting. A combat system split between turn based and real time frustrates beginners with its uneven hurdles while allowing veterans to run through the same species of amusing abuses that cemented Morrowind as the apex of its kind. Barely comprehensible directions and horrific mapping and path finding made every step a challenge, with the best hope being to ask NPCs where to find stuff until you finally pick up a knack for it. But the opaqueness of these core systems only adds to the allure of the nuggets of gold intrinsic to the challenge mechanics. The simulation required to resolve quests is as genius as it is demanding, with most solutions entailing the same logical steps that would be required in reality, and many options available to resolve specific difficulties along the way. If you want to find someone who has died, you find someone who would have known them or go to Townhall to search for obituaries, which you find in old newspapers that you can you read in your inventory. You then go to the town where it says they were buried and ask around until you find a graveyard. You look around to find a store or professional who owns a shovel you can use to break open the grave, but not before waiting for nightfall so you don't raise the attention of townsfolk or guards following the natural movements and patterns of their careers. That's the level of detail you can expect from the average Arcanum quest, and there are dozens of them.
 
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laclongquan

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I wonder how the list would look like if only counting the votes from the oldfags (those who were already playing CRPGs in the '80s or early '90s)?

I think we need to ask @felipepe to do another vote like this again, but only for pre-Fallout games (pre-1997). This should give an indication of the best classic games.

We shouldn't push for it until the summer, though, since doing so now would take effort and attention away from this current all time list and dilute the audience.

I think there's one or two attempts of that kind in the past. It flop badly because so few people respond and results were not great. Pre-1997 games sound :obviously: and all, but :shrug:
 

Servo

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I think we need an Amazon-like rating system: each user can rate a game once, 1-5 stars or something. Each game shows its rating along with how many votes, so if a game gets a solid 5-star rating but only one user then its up to the reader to decide how legit that is.
 

Minttunator

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Codex 2012 Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Wrath
That does sound really nice in theory but I don't think most posters here could be arsed to objectively rate 100+ games and it would likely devolve into people just giving min/max scores to games they hate/love (just like Metacritic).

Edit: to clarify, I don't think the Metacritic user scores are worthless (I often check them out before deciding whether or not I can be bothered to investigate some game more closely), I just don't think they're a great measure of a game's actual quality.
 

Servo

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No, they are worthless. But this is the Codex, and our ratings would be accurate.
 

Cowboy Moment

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There's nothing wrong with only using min/max scores, that's how Rotten Tomatoes works, for example, and it's way better than Metacritic's shitty system.
 

tuluse

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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
There's nothing wrong with only using min/max scores, that's how Rotten Tomatoes works, for example, and it's way better than Metacritic's shitty system.
Rotten Tomatoes also shows the mean score among reviewers.

The problem, which has been stated at least 3 times now to this exact same inquiry, is the amount of work needed to run such a system and keeping audience participation high.
 

Akratus

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
No, no, it's not the codex's taste that's wrong, that's absurd! We just have to keep changing the system untill the outcome is correct!
 

Turjan

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No, no, it's not the codex's taste that's wrong, that's absurd! We just have to keep changing the system untill the outcome is correct!

This. It's funny to what length some people want to go until the poll shows exactly what they personally want to see.
 

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