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RPG Codex Top 50 cRPG's 2013 Edition (poll results)

Dorateen

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The Crystal Mist Mountains
For me, the list stops at number 23 (counting down to the best). Then we would have a respectable top 10.
 

octavius

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I started playing computer games in 1983 and to me it's not just nostalgia which resulted in 17 games from 1993 or older making it on my top 25 list. I've played all of these games and enjoyed them during the past two years.
OTOH, I haven't played all of the newer games like the Fallouts (only barely played F1), PS:Torment, Arcanum, Bloodlines and ToEE yet, so things may change once I've played them also.
But generally I find the older CRPGs still as enjoyable as most of the more modern games. I still haven't found any games to best Chaos Strikes Back and Ultima Underworld/System Shock in their respective categories, for example. I still can't believe System Shock didn't make the top 50 list. :?
 

Jaesun

Fabulous Ex-Moderator
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If we has a DOS only based top 20 cRPG list, it would finally be actual :incline:

Fallout would STILL come out number 1 though. heh
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2010
Messages
3,524
It's a circle jerk exercise

Giving a "BEST/WORST GAME/RPG ON THE CODEX EVER" title to a game or even a number ranking to a given game is sensationalist BS that obscures the more important discussion of what specifically is good about a given game and what isn't. This doesn't achieve anything other than to give people impetus to make pointless arguments like "But this game came #1241 whilst better game came #9581276 RPGCODEX DECLINE PROOF" and "Yes, but THE CODEX voted THIS WAY on this matter!!"

I don't want to encourage any of this stupid stuff. We don't even have a thread that attempts to break down all of the important components of an RPG to attempt an objective analysis or comparison between games so this to me is such an empty and superficial gesture. How is it any different to the stupid Best Ever lists of other websites?
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,236
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I started playing computer games in 1983 and to me it's not just nostalgia which resulted in 17 games from 1993 or older making it on my top 25 list. I've played all of these games and enjoyed them during the past two years.
OTOH, I haven't played all of the newer games like the Fallouts (only barely played F1), PS:Torment, Arcanum, Bloodlines and ToEE yet, so things may change once I've played them also.
But generally I find the older CRPGs still as enjoyable as most of the more modern games. I still haven't found any games to best Chaos Strikes Back and Ultima Underworld/System Shock in their respective categories, for example. I still can't believe System Shock didn't make the top 50 list. :?

System Shock is a great game but it isn't actually a CRPG.
 

octavius

Arcane
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Messages
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Bjørgvin
I started playing computer games in 1983 and to me it's not just nostalgia which resulted in 17 games from 1993 or older making it on my top 25 list. I've played all of these games and enjoyed them during the past two years.
OTOH, I haven't played all of the newer games like the Fallouts (only barely played F1), PS:Torment, Arcanum, Bloodlines and ToEE yet, so things may change once I've played them also.
But generally I find the older CRPGs still as enjoyable as most of the more modern games. I still haven't found any games to best Chaos Strikes Back and Ultima Underworld/System Shock in their respective categories, for example. I still can't believe System Shock didn't make the top 50 list. :?

System Shock is a great game but it isn't actually a CRPG.

Well, it's been a while since I played it (will probably replay it later this year in glorious 1024x768 resolution), so I don't remember much of the game mechanics. What makes it different from the UU games and SS2?
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,236
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I started playing computer games in 1983 and to me it's not just nostalgia which resulted in 17 games from 1993 or older making it on my top 25 list. I've played all of these games and enjoyed them during the past two years.
OTOH, I haven't played all of the newer games like the Fallouts (only barely played F1), PS:Torment, Arcanum, Bloodlines and ToEE yet, so things may change once I've played them also.
But generally I find the older CRPGs still as enjoyable as most of the more modern games. I still haven't found any games to best Chaos Strikes Back and Ultima Underworld/System Shock in their respective categories, for example. I still can't believe System Shock didn't make the top 50 list. :?

System Shock is a great game but it isn't actually a CRPG.

Well, it's been a while since I played it (will probably replay it later this year in glorious 1024x768 resolution), but what makes it different from the UU games and SS2?

It doesn't have any stats, skills, levels or experience points. The only character progression is from weapons, items and software upgrades you find in the world. There's just no recognizable CRPG mechanic there.
 

buzz

Arcane
Joined
Apr 1, 2012
Messages
4,234
I don't understand what's all the fuss about "nostalgia" in this thread.
My first RPG was Gothic in 2002. Then Fallout. Then I played lots of god damn RPGs, some that were released during the time that I was learning how to read. I think the oldest games from my selection are Wizard's Crown and Ultima IV, released in the same year that I was born.
This games aren't fucking OLD and outdated. They're genuinely good, maybe flawed in some areas but then again, so are the ones in the top positions. Wizardry 7 had 4 different beginnings, 3 were based on what ending did you get in Wiz6. What modern game even does something like that? Gothic 2, for much how I loved it ... gave the amnesia bullshit as an excuse.

Lots of people praise ToEE for its awesome combat system, which is fine. But then again, Pool of Radiance (or PoD in my case as I like that one the most) had a great combat system combined with one of the best encounter system and with a general lack of boring shit.
People praise Morrowind because of those questions at the start of the game which shape your character and because of the freedom. And I agree, I love Morrowind. But don't tell me that Darklands doesn't have a great character generation system (IMO the very best) and is not a great open-world RPG. Or don't tell me that Betrayal at Krondor doesn't have excellent writing and we're just enjoying it for nostalgia value.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
^ Pretty much. Nostalgia has nothing to do with it because these games were much more complex and engaging than most 21st century games. They are also replayed quite often on the Codex, so it's not like people praise Wiz 7 and 8 because they played them once a hundred years ago. Daggerfall is more complex than Morrowind. Darklands is still the most complex and best designed open-world RPG. Realms of Arkania beats the crap out of BG1 but BG1 is pretty and RoA isn't because the starting town isn't immersive enough.
 

Zetor

Arcane
Joined
Jan 9, 2003
Messages
1,706
Location
Budapest, Hungary
I'd call Wizardry 7 an exception, not the rule. Party-based TB blobbers age well (I guess the M&M series goes here too, but I didn't like 4-5 that much back in the day either).

Just going off my list (FWIW, 14 of my 25 picks were DOS games): Betrayal at Krondor was great for the time mostly because it had an actual writer doing the story, but honestly there's not that much special about it gameplay-wise and the early digitized graphics didn't age well at all. Goldbox games? The plot can get downright silly at times (anyone remember the gully dwarf town in DKK where you have to steal the "Ambushing made Easy" book to prevent an ambush?) and console srpgs have more depth in combat. I tried to replay Lands of Lore 1 a few years back and it's really not a very good RPG, plus the sidestep dance is annoying. Ditto EOB and Dungeon Master, to a lesser extent (levelling ninja in DM1, fun!). Superhero League of Hoboken is still good, but it's more of an adventure game than a RPG. The Summoning pales next to any modern ARPG. Ultima Underworld and System Shock 1... man, how did we even EXIST before mouselook?! Etc etc.

You can say that these games did x first, but I just don't find them better than Fallout or PST, is all. That, or I'm getting senile in my old age and can't appreciate the golden oldies anymore. :p
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,158
The list if not really accurate in my opinion to a real top 50, is at least presentable, theres no titles to be really ashamed inside, the only problem is old titles not making up to the top simply cause many forumers are too young to know them. Of course theres a part of nostalgia (up to 1982 or so for me), but theres plenty of old titles nothing matched them yet, nothing like an ultima 7 anymore, nothing like a chaos strikes back, grimrock is cool and all, but theres not the sense of danger and lacking supplies you had .
 

dnf

Pedophile
Dumbfuck Shitposter
Joined
Nov 4, 2011
Messages
5,885
If we has a DOS only based top 20 cRPG list, it would finally be actual :incline:

Fallout would STILL come out number 1 though. heh
Yeah, keep putting exclusive rules on the list until morality improves. Or put people that are actually experts in the field to make a decent lists
 
Self-Ejected

Excidium

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experts in the field
14008.jpg

Lots of people praise ToEE for its awesome combat system, which is fine. But then again, Pool of Radiance (or PoD in my case as I like that one the most) had a great combat system
Eh...let's slow down a bit. First, I wouldn't call streamlined AD&D a great combat system. Those games are nowhere near the same level on that. Even though ToEE lacks grappling rules.
 

Bruma Hobo

Lurker
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Messages
2,409
People praise Morrowind because of those questions at the start of the game which shape your character and because of the freedom. And I agree, I love Morrowind. But don't tell me that Darklands doesn't have a great character generation system (IMO the very best) and is not a great open-world RPG.

No, people praise Morrowind because of its detailed gameworld, exploration rewards and numerous generic mechanics which allow some emergent gameplay and unscripted solutions to its quests (unlike those mandatory predefined solutions for every Darklands or Daggerfall quest). Unlike some mediocre crap like Icewind Dale or Baldur's Gate 1, Morrowind deserves its place, even with all its flaws

I agree with everything else.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
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Messages
35,660
Yes, that's all very well and good but the fact remains that the majority of votes are for mediocre stuff from the mid/late90s-through the mid 2000s and there are hardly any votes by comparison for anything from earlier, including the golden age of the late 80s/early 90s. In a poll where you could list 25 games. I didn't say everyone was like this, I said most.
 

felipepepe

Codex's Heretic
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Joined
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Terra da Garoa
It's as Kz3r0 said, at least people were honest. With 25 games to list, farming KKK by namedropping Wizardry, Darklands Gold Box games and the likes would be really easy... or maybe butthurt is more valuable than KKK nowadays. :roll:
 

SearchEngine

Learned
Joined
Dec 17, 2012
Messages
158
I agree with buzz (wish I could brofist) but I find it ironic that a few of the posters brofisting him(?) are the same ones who'll say that the reason games like Fallout and Planescape: Torment are on the top positions as they are because it is the majority of codexers' first rpg.
 

Gozma

Arcane
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Messages
2,951
I played a lot of the very old shit but I didn't have the start of "genre awareness" of CRPGs until Fallout, which felt like an expanded version of a single-player module of D&D or GURPS. I can't easily retrofit my "give a shit about a game" to the wider definition of CRPG. To me Wolfenstein 3D and console games and Civilization and Gold Box games were just different games, not different ideas (except maybe shareware vs. comes in a box).
 

LundB

Mistakes were made.
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
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The only relevant list is my one in the vote thread :smug: . This one just confirms my suspicions regarding the nature of the average Codexer.

the TOP15 games on this list ... are better games than the Ultima series.

:lol:x1000
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
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Messages
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Hey let's compare RPG Codex tastes with the mainstream, circa December 1999

http://www.ign.com/articles/1999/12/21/vote-for-the-rpg-of-the-millenium

Baldur's Gate


By far the big winner in our RPG write-ins, Baldur's Gate is also the recipient of one of IGNPC's highest game scores. AD&D rules, great game engine, and a multiplayer option. What more could you want?

Final Fantasy VII


It's hard to believe, but a console RPG was your second biggest choice for RPG of the Millenium. Still, with its incredible graphics, memorable characters and wide accessibility, Final Fantasy VII is definitely a major contender.

Fallout


Coming in close on the heels of Final Fantasy VII was Tim Cain's masterpiece Fallout. This game not only had a powerful storyline, but it also introduced an amazing play engine that gamers' just couldn't get enough of.

Fallout 2


Yep, that's right... Only a few votes behind the original Fallout came Fallout 2, the game's 1998 sequel. While it may be hard to pick between 'em, this is a reader's choice poll. You decided they both belonged on the list, now you deal with the consequences.

Ultima 7


As a series, Richard Garriot's Ultima was definitely the big winner. By far your favorite game in the series was the last one not based on arcade engine, Ultima 7: The Black Gate. This game is definitive Ultima ¿ great storyline, loads of tough moral lessons and almost everything in the game can be affected in some way by the player. Great stuff.

Ultima 4


One of the big surprises in our write-in results was the inclusion of Ultima 4. This was the first game in the venerable series to introduce the concept of the virtues, the Avatar and the shrines and was one the next to last of the series (the long delayed Ultima V is the last) to be completely title-based.

The Elder Scrolls: Daggerfall


Bethesda's follow-up to Arena is the perfect game for those who like their roleplaying games big. Loads of character classes, an unbelievable complex world and sheer size make this game a strong contender for the top spot.

EverQuest


To date, IGNPC has written more on this game than anything else out there. For months Trent, Steve and Tal were lost in the depths of Sony's ultra-rich gameworld. The biggest point that needs to be made here is that it's massively multiplayer and it looks really, really good.

Ultima Online


The final entry from the Ultima contingent was Ultima Online, Origin's massively multiplayer portrayal of their famous RPG world. Fans of this game are absolutely rabid and gave us pages of text explaining why this game deserved to be the RPG of the Millenium. We didn't read a word of it ¿ this is your vote, not ours.

Wasteland


The last game to make our list was another surprise. For those of you who don't remember it, Wastleland was an incredibly rich (and fairly complicated) post-apocalyptic RPG from the 80's. Players had to deal with everything from mutant rabbits to snake oil salesman, which makes this game okay in our book.
Ignoring the MMOs and Fainaru Fantaji, we end up with the top three pretty close and a lot less love for Ultima 7 and 4, Daggerfall, and Wasteland. I'm sure at the time there was a forum full of grognards gnashing their teeth at this lamestream list and going back to their Pool of Radiance and Wizardry. They probably didn't consider Jagged Alliance 2 a RPG.
 

SearchEngine

Learned
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Dec 17, 2012
Messages
158
Who on filthy planet is still under the delusional belief that Final Fantasy VII is one of the best rpgs?
 

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