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Review RPG Codex Review: Wasteland 2

Achiman

Arcane
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Jul 19, 2012
Messages
810
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Australia
Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech
WL2 is my GOTY. D:OS is a very close second.

Wasn't much about WL2 that I wasn't able to overlook for two reasons; a) I got 2 copies for 50 bucks... b) who else is making games like this?
I can forgive a lot if developers are going to make RPGs that don't hold your hand, allow you fuck up your party, allow you to kill everyone, allow to you exploit the game mechanics and are a 40+ hour main quest.

So many people are crying about camera control, graphics/art (for a indie game!) or not enough combat abilities... I mean really...you are clutching at straws if your enjoyment of the game was SIGNIFICANTLY impacted because there was no flashbangs or aimed shots.

No other game has made me look around this year after I finished it with a mixture of regret that I had completed it and a loss at what else to play next for a similar immersion and enjoyment.
 

Invictus

Arcane
The Real Fanboy
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Nov 3, 2013
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Divinity: Original Sin 2
I wouldnt go as far as GOTY for me but definetly a Damn good game.
I think that critizicing a game for what it is is laudable, but picking on a game for what it isnot seems kind of biased and agenda driven tbh
I happen to like Silent Service and X-COM but those were combat driven games and this is an RPG, and while combat is rather simplistic compared to say JA2, it simply works here, it is fun and gets the job done.
Maybe I am a glass half full kind of guy or the Joy of playing an honest to godness old school game which doesnt hold your hand, allows you to make mistakes and actualy encourages restarting the game to try further party and skill combinations, is simply too much of a delight for me.
I agree with some of the points raised by Grunker and Rexor, but the game is simply better than the sum of its parts, and most of my issues with the game (like the super Movement bug) have already been addressed I simply dont care to pick a bone with the rest
In the end, after such drought of quality modern RPGS (besides The Witcher and Souls series) I am simply Loving the few precios hours I get to play a game like this, and cant wait to see what will Torment and future games will look like
 

Invictus

Arcane
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Divinity: Original Sin 2
Why yes jaesun I stand by that; name 5 RPGs made after 2005 up to this year that qualify as good or great RPGS (never mind old school) and you will see my point; KotCh? DA O? Some Spiderweb indie? Grimrock?
Now as I was saying before you might not like The Witcher or Souls but dont put your foot in your mouth and tell me they are not heads and shoulders above 95% of the other RPGs out there for almost the last decade
 

Sceptic

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Divinity: Original Sin
Why yes jaesun I stand by that; name 5 RPGs made after 2005 up to this year that qualify as good or great RPGS
Just good is enough? Lazarus, DOS, MMX, Divinity 2, Avernum 6, MotB. There. Completely off the top of my head and without any actual thinking or recollection whatsoever, otherwise I can come up with a much longer list and actually sub-group by "good" vs "great".

I mean, I don't dislike Witcher as much as most do, but singling these 2 out is odd.
 

Invictus

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Divinity: Original Sin 2
Sceptic DOS and MMX came out this year so that is why up to this year meaning 2005 to 2013 and Divinity 2? To each his own I guess
 
Unwanted
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I am surprised this got such a rave review. I think it has potential and the parts I played are fairly solid, but it falls a bit short of what I was hoping for. At least in the small amount of the game I've played so far. I think it can use a patch or two before I give it an honest go, but so far it seems more like a 7.5 than the 9 I was hoping for. Still one of the better RPGs in some time though.
 

FeelTheRads

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
13,716
In combat maybe, but when exploring?

I can't believe there can be a worse camera than NWN2. It's just not possible.
 

Carrion

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Lost in Necropolis
You have to keep rotating the camera quite a lot, which is pretty annoying especially in the larger areas, but the camera controls are fine and you always see what's happening. Object highlighting helps a lot too. Being able to zoom out a bit more would've been nice (mainly because of the size of some areas), as well as being able to fix the camera to a specific angle, but I guess you can't have everything. The camera is mildly annoying and makes exploration a bit of a chore at times but it definitely doesn't ruin the game.
 

Surf Solar

cannot into womynz
Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Messages
8,831
The camera simply has such a weird viewing angle that I always felt cramped and claustrophobic with no real overview over the area. As a side effect of this, maps felt more like 'levels' instead of actual locations thanks to this. All the corridors didnt help either. Maybe I am missing out, but together with the constant camera rotation this made me stop playing the game.
 

Athelas

Arcane
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Jun 24, 2013
Messages
4,502
NWN2's camera is clearly better because it gives you the option of viewing the shitty character models from up close for maximum emotional engagement.
 

eric__s

ass hater
Developer
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Jun 13, 2011
Messages
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I get it, you're editors and you're defending the article because you were the final pass on this. You have final responsibility.

Unfortunately it's an indefensible position. Meet the standards that the Codex has been building its reputation on tearing down for other sites or accept the hypocrisy of the stance.

VD and Eric are exceptionally qualified to discuss these matters with authority. There are no questions there whatsoever.



Just amend the review to cover these basic aspects. It's pretty simple
I'll take responsibility for this oversight. Don't want to speak for VD, these are my own thoughts:

I just went back and skipped through the original Fallout and Wasteland 2 soundtracks and it's amazing how many songs from the first two Fallouts I recognized immediately after 2 seconds of listening and how few of the Wasteland 2 songs I recognized despite spending dozens of hours with them. Is it my familiarity with the Fallout soundtracks, or did they have an emphasis on character that Wasteland doesn't? Strange sounds, textures, chants, rhythms - elements of new age, ambient, industrial, maybe even indigenous music. Despite being background music, there is a distinct "Fallout sound" to each song, something I've never heard in anything else. By contrast, I feel like I've heard this song in any number of recent games. Splinter Cell? Alpha Protocol? It wouldn't be out of place in either.

Depending on how you feel about Mark Morgan, you will either like the soundtrack or not notice it. It does what it is supposed to do, and that's take up space. The game is not silent. That's not to say the soundtrack isn't competent or good - it is very good at what it is supposed to do and that is support the atmosphere of a post-apocalyptic hellscape. It is never at odds with the game's aesthetic, but there isn't a single moment of music I remember. I've heard the argument for the existence of God that goes, "if He's doing a good job, you won't even know He's there." Maybe we can say the same for game soundtracks. Is Mark Morgan God? You Be The Judge.

The game has very good voice acting and there are a handful of standout characters - the stern and intimidating Kekkabah, the commanding but weary General Vargas, the sanctimonious Father Enola, whose cadence and fervor are reminiscent of southern evangelists. What I appreciate most about the voice acting is its restraint. Its infrequent use indicates the importance of the dialogue or character. It adds depth to characters but never overstays its welcome. I wish more games would take this approach.

I enjoy the game's visual atmosphere and it does a lot to support the game's aesthetic of a world utterly ruined by nuclear war. You encounter burned out cities left abandoned for years, ramshackle cities built from their remains, dying Arizona wastelands, the ultra-modern, maybe even space age Ranger Citadel. I especially appreciate the lush, overgrown Californian cities, retaken by nature. As a DC native, something that bothered me about Fallout 3 was that its landscape was indistinguishable from the Southern California deserts depicted in the first two games. Before the city was built, DC was a swamp. If people were to suddenly disappear, it would once again become a swamp. The uncontrolled vegetation of California was an interesting and welcome take on an aesthetic dominated by tired and sometimes geographically inappropriate Mad Max-esque desert imagery.

With one exception, the game's portraits are excellent. What's frustrating about them is that they're reused frequently, including some of the portraits selectable in character creation. It's possible to run into NPCs, some of whom are even recruitable, that have the same portraits as your own characters. Players think of the characters they create as unique to the world they exist in. When they encounter another character that is visually identical, the illusion of their character's identity and uniqueness is shattered.

One thing in particular I appreciated was that your characters' appearances are independent of the armor they're wearing. By the end of most RPGs, you've got a team of people wearing ultimate power armor +10 and they're visually indistinguishable from one another. In Wasteland, you set your characters' starting appearance in character creation using a huge variety of wasteland-appropriate clothing - one of my characters wore makeshift body armor, another wore a Clint Eastwood-inspired poncho and sombrero - that can be modified over the course of the game as you run across new pieces of clothing. It is completely cosmetic, but it is nice that you have so much control over your characters' visual identities, that they don't all turn into same thing like they do in so many other RPGs.
 
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Invictus

Arcane
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
2,789
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Mexico
Divinity: Original Sin 2
Nothing like the smell of nerd rage in the morning...now VD is even getting called out for his own game for liking Wasteland 2
So much angst and its not even contained by the Codex, poor Hiver must suck to be such a cool demaning guy in an imperfect world
 

Lord Azlan

Arcane
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Jun 4, 2014
Messages
1,901
I dunno about you guys.

I read the review very carefully a few times as I do with all Codex reviews on games I am thinking of buying.

I am new here - but the review read very dis-pationately and logically. It read like a cold harsh look after a few months of people playing it.

It definately did not feel like a glowing recommendation or even a recommendation at all. It went into both good aspects and bad aspects.

"For instance, the main issue I have with it is that the skills are completely disconnected from the stats."

"Another issue is that not all stats are created equally"

"One of the issues I have with the game is random loot"

"Basically, it’s a good example of a minor decision undermining the character system instead of strengthening it"

"is that different types of ammo have the same stats and are thus flavor only"

"Once again, a solid foundation that can use some fine-tuning and balancing."

"most battles will devolve into enemies abandoning their advantageous positions to charge you."

"The biggest problem is that the AI is often at odds with itself"

"Unfortunately, the skill checks are fairly sporadic and stat checks are extremely rare."

Need I go on? Even more - it would be strange of all these points were not raised in the review as Codex has been talking about this stuff on the other Wasteland 2 threads. A review is not supposed to note EVERYTHING the reviewer did not like.

So - the Reviewer liked WL2 - a lot of people did. A lot of people didn't.

I think the review was excellent - a cold harsh look at this game after a good night's sleep and after some deep thought.

I lot of guys bought this game whilst in development - not knowing what the outcome would be.

I didn't - but I will buy it now. I just need for the price to drop a bit and finish Blackguards and Elminage Gothic first.
 

maverick

Cipher
Patron
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
504
Location
Brazil
Codex 2012 MCA Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera
With the haaammer and the boook!
With the haaammer and the book!
This great wooorld of siiin he shook!
With the haaaammer aaand the book!

You guys waste too much time here instead of having fun playing the game. :obviously:
 

St. Toxic

Arcane
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
9,098
Location
Yemen / India
am i only one who thinks that camera is atrocious. NWN2 camera was fucking masterpiece compared to W2

5313546.gif
 

Nikaido

Arcane
In My Safe Space
Joined
Sep 14, 2013
Messages
521
Location
9th Hell
I just went back and skipped through the original Fallout and Wasteland 2 soundtracks and it's amazing how many songs from the first two Fallouts I recognized immediately after 2 seconds of listening and how few of the Wasteland 2 songs I recognized despite spending dozens of hours with them. Is it my familiarity with the Fallout soundtracks, or did they have an emphasis on character that Wasteland doesn't? Strange sounds, textures, chants, rhythms - elements of new age, ambient, industrial, maybe even indigenous music. Despite being background music, there is a distinct "Fallout sound" to each song, something I've never heard in anything else. By contrast, I feel like I've heard this song in any number of recent games. Splinter Cell? Alpha Protocol? It wouldn't be out of place in either.

Depending on how you feel about Mark Morgan, you will either like the soundtrack or not notice it. It does what it is supposed to do, and that's take up space. The game is not silent. That's not to say the soundtrack isn't competent or good - it is very good at what it is supposed to do and that is support the atmosphere of a post-apocalyptic hellscape. It is never at odds with the game's aesthetic, but there isn't a single moment of music I remember. I've heard the argument for the existence of God that goes, "if He's doing a good job, you won't even know He's there." Maybe we can say the same for game soundtracks. Is Mark Morgan God? You Be The Judge.

Mark Morgan is only as good as the artists he's ripping off. Fallout's OST was good because it ripped off Aphex Twin. I don't know who he ripped off for WL2 but he clearly picked the wrong target.

Edit:

And Mark's most obvious and lazy attempt shown on jewtube doubler :
http://youtubedoubler.com/?video1=h...h?v=dn3UDyLf9-A&start2=&authorName=snoopsagan
 
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St. Toxic

Arcane
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
9,098
Location
Yemen / India
Mark Morgan is only as good as the artists he's ripping off. Fallout's OST was good because it ripped off Aphex Twin. I don't know who he ripped off for WL2 but he clearly picked the wrong target.

But I've got at's entire discography, and the songs aren't nearly as recognizable as fo ost.
 

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