Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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Review RPG Codex Review: Underrail

Discussion in 'RPG News & Content' started by Crooked Bee, Feb 2, 2017.

  1. commie The Last Marxist Patron

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    Not good enough. This is the Codex. You have to find any flaw and blow it up to be the embodiment of cancerous Ebola AIDS and that if you play the game, you and your loved and lusted after ones, will die a horrible arse bleeding death. Read threads about anything Obsidian related to get the idea.
     
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  2. Make America Great Again Kem0sabe Arcane

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    I agree, hysterical codex is bestest codex.
     
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  3. Lurker King Arcane The Real Fanboy

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    MMOs are the natural consequence of the sandbox approach of FO and the traditional unimaginative cRPG design, “Mom, I want things to kill!”, but without decent character building. Underrail just adds decent character building to the formula.

    But muh system is so innovative! Well, it doesn’t fix the problem it was designed to solve.

    Which makes the infamous teleports in AoD seem so cool and well thought, huh?

    This one thousand times. I think that Underrail is what we would have if a combatfag tried to imitate what he liked in Fallout. Fallout is a classic, a great game, but it’s also a very mixed bag. You have mature themes and good writing, but you also have retarded jokes and exploding heads. Saying that you are influenced by Fallout it’s not great with you were more influenced by its retarded features. Underrail was inspired by some of the good stuff we have in FO (SPECIAL, perks, setting, interaction with the environment, etc.), but was also influenced by silly things, like being able to exterminate a whole city by yourself, sandbox approach, etc. You have the ability to kill everyone in one city, but almost zero dialogue checks. You have a post-apocalyptical setting, but that doesn’t have any depth, because it is presented in a childish way and with childish writing. Nobody will be quoting a sentence for the intro of Underrail, or remembering a twist in a quest or a memorable NPC ten years from now, because it’s all childish. The combat is much better than Fallout, but the game is also designed around grinding and backtracking in Diablo style. The list goes on and on. The fact that is obviously heavily influenced by a lot of other tendencies that have nothing to do with Fallout, results in a completely different game that is only faithful in the looks. If the game is good, it is not because of Fallout influences, I can tell you that. Dropping “Fallout” name is a good way to attract old-school fans that doesn’t know the game, but it is not honest.

    I disagree with that part. The things Underrail does well (crafting, perks, combos, itemization, etc.) it does really well. You say that the game doesn’t have the atmosphere that made Fallout 1 special, but it has its own childish atmosphere. The quests and characters are superficial, but they come across as part of a pre-existent world. The worldbuilding in Underrail is strong. I only wished it had more sophisticated content.

    To be fair, you also have additional quests regarding your choices in the faction quests, but since they don't make any difference whatsover to the main story and present just more stuff to kill, it fells just additional quests to kill stuff.
     
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  4. Florian Gheorghe Savant

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    This is the best game that I have played since Arcanum. Finally RPGCodex has a review.Thank you!
     
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  5. Lurker King Arcane The Real Fanboy

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    Some myths we need to break with a fucking hammer:

    • Underrail is the heir of Fallout

    No, it isn’t. See the comments above.

    • Styg is like Mozart, because he made Underrail alone

    Not, he isn’t. The Wikipedia shows that he worked at least with seven people to finish the game. He made the engine, kudos for him, but he didn’t made most of the art, etc. Another thing I noticed is that while he is gifted to implement combat related stuff, he struggles to design everything that is not combat related, like the use of non-combat skills, for instance. I give you an example. The game offers you so much fucking money, which makes skills like Mercantile completely redundant. Of course, balancing money was always a problem in cRPGs, but becomes practically impossible when you implement a sandbox approach. Styg’s solution was to make the best metal in the game (super steel) cost you a fortune. That wouldn’t be bad enough if he didn’t make you wait for the steel to be made and still make its quality random. That is awful design. You have a problem in one part and you tell the players to grind more to compensate for your own mistakes. The facts that he didn't implement basic features like maps and the ability to run, and ignored players' feedback about these things sucks big time. So the next time you assume that you cannot be a developer because you cannot be a God like Styg, check some facts first.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2017
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  6. Make America Great Again Jack Dandy Arcane

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    There is absolutely nothing wrong with cooldowns
     
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  7. ArchAngel Magister

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    You are obviously jealous that Stygs dick is much bigger than yours :M

    Or maybe you offered to :mixedemotions: him and he said no, I am not gay like you.
     
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  8. an Administrator Arcane

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    The setting of the game reminded me of Metro. There are little similarities such as surface being inhabitable, mutation and weird mushrooms being one of the sources of food. This underground post-apocalyptic setting certainly has a great potential, but Underrail fails to generate an interesting atmosphere out of it. Many dialogs are dry and can’t make a personality for characters. Only memorable NPCs imo are Jon the Beautiful, Gortsky and Al Fabet(which is basically a meme character). There are questions that the game fails to answer. Like where all the air is coming from, what happened to the surface, what made people refuge to the metro system or how did humans get psionic abilities(certainly just throwing the words like “genetic mutation” around doesn’t help).

    Also i wonder how OP forgot to mention the best quest of the game. You have skillchecks, mystery and C&C. What else do you need to make a prefect quest?

    Sure, the character system allows you to make different builds, but the encounters are rather easy and badly-placed, basically most of them are trash filler enemies. For me, The most challenging fight of the game before Deep Coverns was the fight with Cornifax(and he cheats and gets higher initiative base point).
     
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  9. Make America Great Again Darth Roxor Prestigious Gentleman Wielder of the Huegpenis, Hater of Eternity

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    if only there was some sort of middle ground that could be attained :philosoraptor:
     
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  10. Fenix Arbiter

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    I should agree here.
    But enough with criticism of rewiev.

    True.

    Bullshit, never had this problem. The only who might have problem those are without stealth and equipment that add stealth.
    There was a shadow of such problem, but in one of updates many groups stop to respawn.

    Well, this is a turn-based game.

    Playing it since 2011 and never made a trap build. Or I don't understand what do you mean.

    They shoudn't have been there? You are psionic, we have no trainers, go get a knife and kill enemies with knife next 3 hours?

    There are different fractions and sides.

    For me Avernum looks like a bigger source of inspiration, which is fine.
    The advantage of Underrail is that it different RPG than AoD.
    We have choice and exploring different pathes in RPG.
     
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  11. an Administrator Arcane

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    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Ludo Lense Arcane

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    If it was a glowing article about how awesome Underrail is I wouldn't have cared, I would have filed it under "Different strokes for different folks"

    But lines like "Underrail was both lauded and criticised for its lack of in-game map upon release" ; "Now before you all groan in unison at the plague of modern day crafting systems, hear me out" ; "Unfortunately due to the nature of the Deep Caverns it seems likely that many players would miss out on this kind of content, perpetuating the myth of a simple story" means the subjectivity defense doesn't work anymore. You are now moving into trying to tackle complaints which is quite different and requires striving for objectivity which you didn't do thus resulting in fanboyism.
     
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  13. MediantSamuel Erudite Patron

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    Fair enough, I take your point. It seems I unintentionally injected a little too much of my love for the game when my intention was to try and cover both sides of the argument (which I clearly failed at.)

    Thanks for pointing it out, though. I appreciate it if I'm to improve. :D
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2017
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  14. Lurker King Arcane The Real Fanboy

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    We have a bunch of retards saying this game is the best thing since chocolate cake; some mongrels even cheated on the last GOTY to make this game win, but no one bother to make a review, which suggests that they were just praising this game out of despite for AoD or were just paying lip service. Now this guy finally makes a review and you shit all over it. It may not be your dream review, but it has a great virtue: at least it exists! Give him a break, will you?
     
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  15. Make America Great Again toro Dumbfuck! Patron Dumbfuck Village Idiot Weasel

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    Codex 2012 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Proof please.
     
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  16. Iluvcheezcake Learned

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    I'm gonna write a Balkan review. Its only fitting.

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Make America Great Again Kem0sabe Arcane

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    Muslim or Christian Balkan review?
     
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  18. naossano Cipher

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    Thanks for the news. I thought it would never be released.
     
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  19. Black Angel Savant

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    Haven't really read the review, but here's my two-cents on the statement of the game being a spiritual successor/heir to Fallout. The thing about Underrail being 'a successor' to Fallout is only on a relatively superficial level (top-down isometric turn-based RPG), and sadly the game doesn't have the feature that I loved in Fallout (free, multiple, possible interaction with the environment through the use of right-mouse button clicking; aimed shots at different body parts (despite of being prone to abuse); and GORE!), but what little inspirations it draws from Fallout, it improved upon it so well:
    1. Guns now depended on Perception instead of Agility (or Dexterity)
    2. Different guns have different limitation like THC penalty upon moving and close-quarter
    3. There's very little amount of 'boring' perks like simple stat and skill increasing perks which the older Fallouts had
    4. Stealth is ABSOLUTELY fun to play with, especially with the sound design AND (this is probably not mentioned in the review, but correct me if I'm wrong) the level design of the game
    5. The mechanic for pickpocketing eliminated the need to savescum once and for all
    6. Lockpicking and hacking is separated, instead of Lockpicking only for both mechanical and electronic locks
    7. The Fallout's Science and Repair skill was split into 5 different groups of skills mainly for Crafting and skill checks, even though only Mechanics and Electronics were checked very often, while Chemistry and Biology very rarely checked, and Tailoring doesn't even get any love at all!
    8. Throwing is much, much more viable, if only as a secondary offensive skill (and raised only to the point where the 'nades throwing % is at satisfactory level, so you can allocate the SP to other, more important skills), but it's still possible as primary offensive skill (and Styg supposedly had a plan for future patches implementing new features to make it actually work as primary offensive skill).
    9. And some other things I've probably forgotten, since it's been a month since I last played Underrail.
    Having said all of that, I think there are some references and parallels that can be drawn between Underrail and Fallout:
    Show Spoiler

    1. At the very start of the game, you are thrown against groups of rats in the cave. Yes, this is extremely superficial, but still...
    2. Junkyard is absolutely a direct reference to Junktown, and even the soundtrack somewhat sound similar. There's also two opposing forces vying for dominance here, which is the Scrapper vs the Black Eels, just like Killian vs. Gizmo. The differences is, however, is that neither faction in the Junkyard represent polar opposite of morality/alignment, and there's a continuous third party presence in the form of the Protectorate-United Stations.
    3. Camp Hathor is a reference to Klamath (both main source of surviving/maintaining the economy is hunting), and the Rathound King is a reference to the Rat God (Ke'eng Rat).
    4. The Protectorate and all of their ideals is a reference to the NCR, as in the NCR we knew by the time of New Vegas (i.e "push to civilize its neighbors." as of Fallout 2's canon ending of NCR). United Stations is somewhat a reference the Followers of the Apocalypse, only that the United Stations fully embraced the Protectorate ideals but push it through diplomatic means. Also, the Free Drones nicknamed the Protectorate as 'tin-cans', as a mockery to the Protectorate's soldiers use of metal armors, so it's somewhat a reference to the Brotherhood of Steel in that regard, and this is kind of noticeable from how the Protectorate soundtrack sound similar to Metallic Monks in the militaristic part of the soundtrack (believe it or not, listening to the Protectorate soundtrack DO reminded me of Metallic Monks).
    5. The Institute of Tchort is absolutely a reference to the Children of the Cathedral, especially with their use of hooded robes
    6. And Tchort itself is a reference to the Master, especially with the way Tchort was created.

    On-topic of the MMO-ish design of Underrail, I can see that this is a legit concern. Underrail is my first (!) cRPG ever, but I've noticed right away that the game does influenced by MMORPG's design. I saw it in the UI, with the way multiple slots for shortcuts was designed, which is very MMORPG-ish. Cooldown, on the other hand, isn't really that bad on its own. You DO need cooldown for the Psi spells, 'simpler' spells like Cyrokinesis and Neural Overload already doesn't have cooldown already, but the more sophisticated, 'complex' ones like Bilocation had to have cooldowns.

    I'm indifferent to grenades having cooldowns, however. On one hand, grenades are EXTREMELY powerful in this game and cover pretty big area when compared to bombs like in AoD, so you ought to find a way to balance it and prevent abuse. On the other hand, balancing and preventing abuse of grenades can be done with other ways, like increasing the AP requirement. I don't know, maybe Styg once playtested grenades with no cooldowns at all and find it too OP. Either way, I understand the criticism of grenades having cooldown, so I guess Styg should really find a better implementation for grenades.
     
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  20. thesoup Arcane

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    Considering the picture, it will be bribed / fixed with a dash of creative insults.
     
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  21. Make America Great Again Jack Dandy Arcane

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    I'll never understand the problem with cooldowns.
    It's a game mechanic at the end of the day -- somebody says it's "Not realistic"? And is having guys take turns while they move around shooting eachother, that's realistic?

    Cooldowns end up simply being another mean of conveying an "Action that can't be done repeatedly by a normal human". Come on!

    It is a gameplay mechanic - if it makes combat fun and thought-provoking, then all is good.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2017
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  22. Cosmo Arcane

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    Morons and their knee-jerk reactions.
     
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  23. FeelTheRads Arcane Patron

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    :roll: :roll: :roll:

    I suppose you're also in the school of thought that a sci-fi game can have any kind of retarded shit in it because hey, it's sci-fi.

    And no, it's not as much about realism as it is about causing repetitive behavior: as in run around in circles waiting for your best shit to cooldown

    Even Styg admitted he used them because it's an easy way to balance abilities, not because they're some awesome thing. And they're not.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2017
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  24. Make America Great Again Darth Roxor Prestigious Gentleman Wielder of the Huegpenis, Hater of Eternity

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    like throwing a grenade?
     
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  25. ArchAngel Magister

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    And probably written inside a jail where the guy in the picture is going.
     
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