Codex Review RPG Codex Review: Long Live the Queen

[Jasede]

Stupid furry.

 

[Jaesun]

First they started to cover jRPG's and I said nothing....

 

[agentorange]

So we get a review of this but not Legions of Ashworld. Thank you codex. Can't wait for the Sakura Spirit review.

 

[TigerKnee]

Where's the Codex review of the critically acclaimed RPG with lots of C&C - Sengoku Rance?

 

[CSM]

What is this

Why

I can't

 

[Deuce Traveler]

Where's the Codex review of the critically acclaimed RPG with lots of C&C - Sengoku Rance?

Do it!

 

[Norfleet]

is this what we want? is this our Mission? Are we to bow before the entropic forces of decline?

The Decline cannot be fought. Decline is inevitable and inexorable. The entropy of a closed system must always increase. Any action taken can merely accelerate the decline.

 

[Gragt]

Too bad it's so random and game is deadlier than AoD

It isn't random. LLtQ is a visual novel and everything happens exactly in the same way every game. Some decisions/skill checks might send you in a different route, and that's why you may experience different things in another playthrough, but do exactly the same things in two plays and you will get the same results. The goal of the game is simply to "map" out the various skill checks and their conserquences and then plan the development of your skills. That's all.

Anyway this piece does the same mistake as many others have and compares LLtQ to Princess Maker 2. They do have some superficial similarities, which is probably why people get stuck on these, but belong in different genres. LLtQ is a visual novel and PM2 is a simulation. As already stated, LLtQ is all about finding the right order to build your skills to get the most positive outcomes from skill checks, and some mistakes on important ones lead to a game over. PM2 on the other hand lets you develop the girl in different ways, which in turn opens new options on things to do and also unlocks some events, including some C&C—one of them is when you are asked to give your daughter in marriage to the dragon youth, and doing so gives you a big sum of money but in turns means that she will be forced to marry him by the end of the game. There is some randomness, as a schedule may not go as planned, and there are no instances of having to pass a skill check or suffer a game over. And then there is the adventure section that further opens up the things you can do in the game—and contrary to popular belief, you do not need to develop Olive as a fighter to do it. If anything, LLtQ is much more similar to Princess Maker 3 as that game dropped all the randomness and is all about finding the right order to develop the daughter's skills in order to succeed.

 

[Shadenuat]

It isn't random. LLtQ is a visual novel and everything happens exactly in the same way every game

What I meant was, it's very random and unpredictable in it's skill checks. Some skills are used way more than others, while some that might be useful in particular situation game forgets they even exist. That makes finding certain paths to different endings hard. It also kinda takes away from the beauty of it's skill system. I don't think you can be pretty princess who wins the game by playing harp and looking pretty AND knows history well/versed in intrigue/casts magic.

 

[papillon]

If you see a case where something isn't checked that really should be, submit it and it might be added. I intend at least one more decent-sized content patch, and many things have been added since the beginning.

Other times, people just aren't paying attention. The most common request is probably to use

Spoiler

'resist magic' against the arrows, which makes no sense, as they are not magic arrows. Nor can you shoot the bandits with magic, given that it's an ambush and you don't see it coming.

 

[Shadenuat]

Oh yeah, that plot point. I remember thinking it definitely could use more skill checks. It's not even like, "military" path, you are just going to a meeting, but it asks plain "military" checks (I think it was something like bow/perception/speed/horses) and they are higher than you might have at the moment you get the event.

As for magic, it is never established what exactly can it do, you get the ton of descriptions of all the little "what can you do and understand now" (I think first thing you learn is to how move small objects with your mind), and your standard RPG player would always ask why can't you cast something when you are in danger etc.

That dating/Hogwarts game RK47's LP'd with small dungeons and Magic The Gathering magic schools did it a lot better... even if it was all about magic.

I guess what I was most surprised with was that under the cover with cutsie magical weeabo girl hides merciless fantasy/medieval political simulator.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

Eh, SLG can be closer either to RPGs or to interactive movies. So I don't really mind them on codex, if they fall to former sub-category. Although I think if the staff really wants to review ゲーム, then thematically Himegari Dungeon Meister is more suited to 'dex's tastes.

 

[SCO]

For a moment there i thought i had fallen into a timewarp to a year ago, i had the idea the rpgcodex already had reviewed LLtQ, but it was obvs only a bitching thread.

 

[MicoSelva]

I hate trial and error gameplay, so I would not be interested in this game, even if the theme was exciting. Which it isn't, so decline, etc.

But mechanics-wise it seems to be more of an RPG than many games today.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

If you see a case where something isn't checked that really should be, submit it and it might be added. I intend at least one more decent-sized content patch, and many things have been added since the beginning.

Other times, people just aren't paying attention. The most common request is probably to use

Spoiler

'resist magic' against the arrows, which makes no sense, as they are not magic arrows. Nor can you shoot the bandits with magic, given that it's an ambush and you don't see it coming.

While you are here, I never did find the route that would let you discover the family secrets that are subtly discussed. Would someone have to go down a path of magic mixed with faith to discover more of those? I didn't uncover much with history and espionage, but perhaps I made the wrong choices.

 

[TigerKnee]

Ok, outside of my Sengoku Rance joke and on to this game in question...

I've never actually played this game but it kind of seems strange to me to try to slap Princess Maker 2's stat building system into what is essentially a CYOA gamebook, considering the former was built for a more free-form game. Does it actually work out well? If the game wasn't so railroaded/trail and error, that is.

Maybe it would be much better to try to go with a system more akin to... I dunno, the Lone Wolf gamebooks or something if you absolutely need to have gameplay elements.

(By the way, lolz at the Slave Maker comparison. I'm sure that's definitely a common frame of reference for your average Codexian)

 

[Black]

 

[SCO]

It's not much of a game to be honest, more like a mapping exercise, basically extremely unforgiving. It's also not particularly non-linear - the crisis and some opportunities will follow linearly - the only difference will be on where you will be cut-off. Choice of games, fabled lands and lone wolf seventh sense (they're free, try it bums) are still my favorites for this form of gameplay.

The moods are a real bitch too, planning ahead is necessary but it's a bit tedious to map all the relationships and synergies, and changing course if you are on a extreme takes too long. Naturally i cheated my socks off to see the visual novel parts and forgot the game, probably forever, so if you think it's great fun i'm just mistaken kthxbye.

 

[Black]

The moods are a real bitch too,

Good, makes you feel like you're really playing a female.

 

[SCO]

I wish way of the tiger and freeway warrior had a game book player too. They sound cool..

 

[papillon]

While you are here, I never did find the route that would let you discover the family secrets that are subtly discussed. Would someone have to go down a path of magic mixed with faith to discover more of those? I didn't uncover much with history and espionage, but perhaps I made the wrong choices.

Which family secrets? The 'better left unsaid' achievement? That one involves the clusterfuck that is the family of the Duchess of Lillah. A high level of Internal Affairs will fill in important parts of the story, but to get the achievement you need to:

Make it to the birthday party alive
Befriend Briony and bring her back to the castle (this requires enough Lore or History to know what she's on about)
Avoid civil war or getting Briony killed (You don't have to go to the Old Forest though)

If you do this, Briony's mother will come to fetch her, and shortly afterward Briony will write you a letter. If you have the Ciphering skill, you can read the extra details she's added to that letter in code.

This also unlocks some effects in later plot -

Spoiler

If you've saved Briony, Kevan will no longer attack you at the tournament, and he becomes available as a marriage option. If you actually marry him after knowing the terrible family secret, you find out slightly more detail about what happened.

 

[Excidium]

I don't wanna be mean but this /really/ isn't an RPG in any sense of the word.

To quote from an old blog post on the subject:

If the ongoing plot of LLTQ were written in gamebook format, you would need a character sheet to play it. Your character skills are absolutely crucial at all times to what text you see, what options you have, how your choices turn out. You even have, to some extent, an inventory of items that boost your stats. And if you're playing through an adventure with a character sheet and inventory, it becomes harder to argue that this isn't, in fact, some kind of RPG.

What a load of bullshit

 

[Drowed]

I get it. So this game is like AOD without combat?

 

[Deuce Traveler]

I wish way of the tiger and freeway warrior had a game book player too. They sound cool..

Freeway Warrior was good, but Way of the Tiger was better. I liked the horrible and surprising way the WotT series ends for your main character. The author was feeling a bit bitter that day, I think. And I completely agree that CYOA fans should really try the Lone Wolf series out, especially since they were released in electronic format for free.

 

[Surf Solar]

So this is what it has come to