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Review RPG Codex Review: Dragon Age: Inquisition

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Lurker King

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A lot of people really love these timesink activities or are addicts who can't not do it. It's been a part of open-world action-adventure design for over a decade.

A lot of people really love mongoloid romances in cRPGs. It’s been a part of cRPGs more than a decade now, since BG2. A lot of people also love mindless streamlined combat. In fact, a lot of people really love many inane and stupid things for many thousands of years now, since the beginning of the humankind, because a lot of people are stupid and have no taste. This counting of causal heads and years has nothing to do with the real value of genuine gameplay.
 
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Lurker King

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Roguey also forgot to mention is that a lot of intelligent developers really don’t love the fact that they couldn’t make genuine cRPGs over a decade now because the publishers wanted them to make cRPGs to a lot of people who don’t like cRPGs.
 
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A lot of people really love these timesink activities or are addicts who can't not do it. It's been a part of open-world action-adventure design for over a decade.

A lot of people really love mongoloid romances in cRPGs. It’s been a part of cRPGs more than a decade now, since BG2. A lot of people also love mindless streamlined combat. In fact, a lot of people really love many inane and stupid things for many thousands of years now, since the beginning of the humankind, because a lot of people are stupid and have no taste. This counting of causal heads and years has nothing to do with the real value of genuine gameplay.

Yeah, but there's something about those MMO mechanics that goes beyond that. It took me a while to click to it, but once you see it, it's there staring you right in the face.

Pokie machines. They're fucking pokie machines.

There is no area of gambling that have seen more research focused on swindling people out of their money, that makes more profit and does so from the most vulnerable members of the community than electronic slot machines. There's an incredible amount of science behind it - you could almost say that casinos have driven psychology research for the past 20 years in the same way that porn accidentally created the modern internet. They're meticulously crafted to create addiction - the lights that flash when someone wins a token amount calibrated at just the right level to stimulate mood, the timing of the small payouts given just the right amount of unpredictability to create a rush instead of feeling like a slog, rigged odds buried under tons of visual and aural cues that suggest a completely different system to that which controls the odds beneath the hood (showing graphics of cards as though you're actually playing poker instead of feeding coins to a fixed algorithm that guarantees overwhelming losses), just enough selection and button pushing to make the psychological reinforcement mechanisms tick over while remaining repetitive enough to be hypnotic, the timing between the button push and the animated response - nothing is left to chance.

Okay, so some people are weak, lots of us play cards with friends, few of us develop a gambling problem - it's not like it's a physical addiction like booze or drugs, hey? Well, there's truth to that - gamblers only have to beat the addiction itself, they don't have to take on the double whammy of addiction and withdrawal sickness simultaneously. But pokies addiction isn't just gambling addiction. These machines are designed to create a chemical response, manipulating the body's own production of opiates (the natural function of opiates in the body is to make you crave food, so you don't ignore that hungry feeling and starve - even the body's natural opiate output is designed to override your decision making and reinforce necessary behaviours) and dopamine (ie the stuff that cocaine simulates). Unless you're naturally inclined towards gambling addiction, or you just lack willpower, you can play cards every week and never become an addict. Pokies might not create withdrawal symptoms, but they still function more like drugs than card games - it doesn't matter who you are, or how much willpower you have, if you play them long enough or often enough, the chemical mechanisms will kick in and you'll become addicted.

Look at the design of electronic poker machines, then look at what has become the standard MMO mechanics. Hidden drop rates with just the right level of unpredictability and false audio visual feedback, the timing, the use of lighting and animation, the big 'you're a winner' symbols at constant but not quite predictable intervals, the timing between button press and effect, fuck even the actual gameplay. I wouldn't be surprised if they even have the same algorithms running under the hood!

That's why, in computer games of all places - one of the most innocent hobbies around, one so innocuous that parents trust their kids to play them unsupervised - you've started to get people talking, completely unprompted, about feeling like they're addicted. It's why people play MMOs for such absurd hours that they damage their jobs and social lives until they only associate with other addicts...even though they recognise all the while that they aren't having fun for over 95% of their play time. It's why they wait in queues for battlegrounds and instances that they're grinding for the 100th time instead of going 'fuck it, I'll do something else and play when it's less busy'.

Sure, people have always liked crap computer games (fuck you too 'Ghosts and Goblins', the 8 year old in me still wants his quarters back), but this shit, no this is entirely new. Even during the arcade era, with the flashing lights and rigged time limits, there was nothing that resembled this kind of behaviour - there were people who spent way too much time on it, but never this widespread feeling of not having fun yet feeling compelled to play them anyway. Now, designers boast about how good they are at creating 'just one more click, click click' gameplay, not even realising that they've dropped 'fun' from their design goals, or that they've been relegated to making fake animated poker cards.

They crossed the fucking line when they introduced real money auction houses. Once they did that, gambling addiction wasn't just their game design anymore, it became their business model.

I'm not saying we should be playing the world's smallest violins for the poor MMO addicts. There is always a point where you can feel an addiction kicking in, before it takes hold, and people dig their own graves. But fuck, man, this is an industry that makes entertainment for kids. There are 10 yr olds all over the world playing this stuff, and I don't blame their parents because whilst there's a place for games aimed at adults, gaming's soul has always been that you can make money by bringing fun and joy to children. Developers forgetting that is one of the biggest drivers if the decline, and it's why AAA developers with their gritty sexy game plots had their asses kicked by minecraft. The same way that comics went to shit when they decided that their market was pathetic man-childs instead of actual kids and adults who aren't ashamed of indulging their inner child.

Parents expect their kids to be at risk when they're crossing the road, playing football or sneaking down to the park to smoke pot, but for all the media scares, if there's one time parents expect to be able to take their eye off the kids so they can do the vacuuming, it's when they're playing a computer game.
 

felipepepe

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Which games?

I think that in oldschool games that had a more abstract representation of things, it was more common for the player to treat randomly generated loot not as something that needs to be sucked dry out of the world, but more as a kind of residual resource to be selectively "foraged" as necessary.

You do see this in modern open world games as well. For example, a non-completionist player in Fallout 3 might realize he's low on money at some point, and go on a selective "scavenging expedition" in D.C. to get some loot and sell it. After he's done that, he goes back to non-completionist mode, following the main quest and not looting everything he sees.
Thinking back, most old-school games didn't have randomly generated loot, but hand placed loot. That's already a HUGE difference.

Or at the very least, they would tier containers. You always open the golden chest after the boss, but the 20 barrels at the corner of the dungeon are just vendor trash stuff. That you can say that would turn it into a resource to forage. However, modern games don't give a fuck, better loot everything because RNG or a troll designer might fuck and hid the legendary drop in the bathroom's trash bin.

I do agree that this is a somewhat "casual"/non-hardcore way of playing RPGs, but it is a valid way of playing, and something that "filler loot" can support.
Is not about being casual, most roguelikes are like this. It's about being a type of design that serves a specific type of gameplay, but since it's easier to create, addicting and serves as filler, it's used as the blueprint of every modern RPG. Fuck actually decent loot tables, solid itemization or hand-place loot, everything must be Diablo-like and even feature fucking DPS indicators.
 

SCO

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LARIAAAAAAAN :rage:


or even the faggots that were complaining of items in blackguards 1 (no i didn't like that there was only one armor for mages either, disregarding their inane 'solution' in BG2)
 

Achiman

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Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech

Spotted an Australian. Does anywhere else in the world refer to slot machines as Pokies?

Anyway, you might find Addiction By Design: Machine Gambling in Las Vegas interesting. It's very dry but it goes into the minute details casinos and the pokie machines themselves go to in order to keep people playing. Must be a depressing industry to work in.


I'm in WA where they aren't legal in the "clubs" like in the eastern states of Australia. You have to go to the one casino we have (yeah we are backwards like that).
My brothers friend is a croupier there and he has told me that christmas eve is the worst day of the year, because it is the most hardcore gamblers and they are all, on that one day especially self-aware and full of self loathing to their addiction.

The Eastern-State clubs however, are are without exception just a poor man's casino. They have cheap food, grog etc etc all propped up by the sad bastards feeding money into the pokies day after day.
On the odd occasion my old man has dragged me in there for a cheap feed I'm always depressed, to look around and see that it's mostly old pensioners, the unemployable and others on the fringes of society who are feeding money they can't afford day after day into the machines.

I remember reading somewhere that NSW has more pokies than the entirety of Las Vegas, a city dedicated to gambling. Australia also has pokie machines that are banned in USA cause you can (and do) lose money incredibly quick on them. Anyway they are fucking awful, but the clubs industry and various other "gaming" organisations are cashed up to the eyeballs and can run advertising blitzs against any changes to the laws.

http://grogsgamut.blogspot.com.au/2011/04/dont-bet-on-joys-of-pokies.html

This is one of the best articles I've read about them and his graphs illustrate just how much of a sad bastard you've become if you think that you can win putting money into a pokie/slot-machine/one-armed-bandit etc ect.

Back on topic, I remember fishing in WoW for stonescale eels back in the day, and I knew that it was a incredible waste of time and the fishing is pure skill-less busy work, but I had to catch those eels for 1g or w/e they were worth. Something in the deliberate addictive nature of MMO's and poker machines for sure.
 

sser

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We got video poker out in the States. Not sure what the laws are on them for reach individual state, but I've seen a few around here. They're notorious wallet sponges and Az's summation was dead on. A lot of local governments use them to shore up the budget, same for the lotto and what not. I'm sure you guys know fuck all about Texas politics, but they don't strictly allow casinos in this state - but there are two very large casinos in the bordering states where Texans flood to literally every day. I'm convinced that those casino owners are greasing Texan politicians to keep a casino out of Texas so they can keep their own business strong. Gambling has always been a big fucking racket. The lottery especially, but the lottery doesn't siphon peoples money so much as gives them fleeting, dream-like hopes of a future that isn't going to happen. The video poker machines feed on addictions like a drug dealer making phone calls to people trying to get off his product. Only difference is these particular gambling machines got nice little stamps of government approval.
 

Malpercio

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A shame there isn't much interest in the game anymore, so many people won't check this review.

It would be interesting to post it in the middle of 12/10 on a doritos scale reviews storm and see people reaction.
 

Apexeon

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MMO's are a disease and its infecting the main stream trash now. All blending together into one giant pile of soulless ****.
 
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Lurker King

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Is not about being casual, most roguelikes are like this. It's about being a type of design that serves a specific type of gameplay, but since it's easier to create, addicting and serves as filler, it's used as the blueprint of every modern RPG. Fuck actually decent loot tables, solid itemization or hand-place loot, everything must be Diablo-like and even feature fucking DPS indicators.

It is about being a degenerated genre. I have no problems to admit that there are other genuine forms of gameplay in other genres. Super Mario Kart games are classics of racing video games. No doubt about it. The point is that MMOs are due to its own nature a stupid genre. They were designed to make people spend time doing the same things repeatedly. The only skill you need is the availability of time to lose in timesink activities and the lack of brain process for not being bored outta your mind. There is no genre that encapsulates better the suit-profit mentality towards causals than MMOs. The only thing that matter is to keep players busy and paying their subscriptions on time. MMOs are hell. The fact that some people try to justify their existence pointing to number of players or other stupid games is frightening.
 
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MicoSelva

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I probably prefer this style of informative review to a purely lulzy one, but to be honest, I was kind of hoping for both, as it used to be in the Good Old Days (TM). The review was a bit like the game itself - too long and not very interesting, unless you skipped everything except the best parts (but how would you know where they are), so I am somewhat disappointed.

Still, I appreciate the effort and the result, reviewer bros. Thank you. :salute: Oh, and the screenshots were great and well-signed, so good job to whoever did that.
 

Roguey

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A lot of people really love mongoloid romances in cRPGs. It’s been a part of cRPGs more than a decade now, since BG2. A lot of people also love mindless streamlined combat. In fact, a lot of people really love many inane and stupid things for many thousands of years now, since the beginning of the humankind, because a lot of people are stupid and have no taste. This counting of causal heads and years has nothing to do with the real value of genuine gameplay.

Looks like we have ourselves a genius right here.

Most games will contain elements you don't like unless you have one commissioned particularly to your tastes. :smug:

Roguey also forgot to mention is that a lot of intelligent developers really don’t love the fact that they couldn’t make genuine cRPGs over a decade now because the publishers wanted them to make cRPGs to a lot of people who don’t like cRPGs.

Intelligent developers? Who might those be? Certainly no one at Bioware or inXile.
 

GloomFrost

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I still can not understand one little thing. When the game came out a lot of people on different forums were saying: "I played for 50 hours and there is still shit load to do GOTY!!!!!", "I played for a hundred hours and havent even started the plot quests, game of the decade!!!!!" etc What I could not understand was WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE???, why the hell would you play this game for a hundred hours. I was bored out of my skull after about 20 hours and just wanted to finish that "goty" as soon as possible and forget about it for good. I mean its literally almost nothing but mindless monster grinding and dumb FED-EX quests straight out of some budget MMO. But the funniest thing is that most of other reviews were trying to convince you that dozens of simple short quests is not only not boring but like the best things that ever happened to cRPG genre.
But the hell with them anyway coz only 56 days left till the REAL party based cRPG comes out.
 

tuluse

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There's a qualitative difference between quests and loot.

It can be argued that "filler loot" exists in the world not for the purpose of you taking every single bit of it, but to serve as a kind of "residual resource" which you partake of only as necessary, like resources in a strategy game, a survival game, or a procedurally generated roguelike.

"Filler quests" are harder to justify, because they incorporate actual plot and lore content, which a player of a story-driven RPG should want to see as much of as possible.
I can't think of any strategy game where you don't gobble up as many resource as possible. The only times you're not trying to get a resource are 1) when there is some danger either preventing you or making you cautious, 2) you are choosing a different resource to go after instead or 3) the game is already won, but shit end game design means you need to hit end turn 20-100 more times.
 

Shannow

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I got this game for free, finished the "tutorial" area, watched the cutscene and decided that in all its shittiness it somehow may pull something interesting to at least keep me playing out of sheer boredom.
Then you get to the "Generic forest area" and Mining Trainer some NPC tells me to get him 10 iron ore, all with mmo-ish yellow "!" above his head. Even the enemies respawn, jesus christ this was so obviously supposed to be an mmo game but tortanic flopped so badly that they quickly jury rigged the rest of the single player game to salvage something.

:killit:

This really isn't an MMO engine. The devs simply mimicked MMO design because they noticed how many people put hundreds of hours into MMOs.
Seems to be EA's way of obfuscating their numbers for the shareholders (and the interested public).
Instead of saying "We sold so and so many copies.", they say "The single player campaign alone has been enjoyed for more than 113 million hours." .
Obviously that sounds more impressive if the game has more padding.

As far as loot and containers go:
I hate the way the majority of games dealt and deal with it. Pixel-hunting and bashing barrels are not my concept of fun.
If I were to design it:
Whenever you're in a safe place with lootable content and enough time you can loot. Simply by hitting a button that yields a loot screen. What and how much you get depends on your party's stats and skills and the area you're looting. Your back yard will obviously yield less results than the bottom of a dungeon.
By this you can also reward non-violent gameplay. (EG.: As long as the guards are unaware you can pilfer to your hearts content. But if you're fighting a retreating action, looting would cost combat-actions/time, could only be applied to obvious stuff like corpses and chests and skill checks for lock-picking/traps/etc would be a lot more difficult due to stress, etc. Overall your haul'd be vastly diminished. Stuff like that.)

I realize few people would be interested in such a mechanic, but I'd be interested in seeing such a concept implemented.
 

Doctor Sbaitso

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Didn't once consider buying this. Every non-trivial NPC / companion person you encounter is gussied up to look like an androgenous, oiled-up fuck doll (gotta cover all the bases). Fucking creepy and blatantly obvious.
 

tuluse

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Didn't once consider buying this. Every non-trivial NPC / companion person you encounter is gussied up to look like an androgenous, oiled-up fuck doll (gotta cover all the bases). Fucking creepy.
Actually most people were complaining that the characters—especially the women—looked particularly ugly.
 
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Lurker King

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Looks like we have ourselves a genius right here.
Most games will contain elements you don't like unless you have one commissioned particularly to your tastes.

Not really. It doesn't need a genius to realize that is a fallacy to mention causal gamers tastes in a vain attempt to justify popamole games. The fact that mindless timesink activities are stupid is not just a matter of opinion, is a fact. But let me get this straight: everything is just a matter of opinion, but your opinion that Fallout is “not good enough when it comes to systems, dialogue, and inventory UI” is an objective truth?
 
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DarkUnderlord, have you been doing drugs lately?


CrpswtW.jpg
 

Doctor Sbaitso

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Didn't once consider buying this. Every non-trivial NPC / companion person you encounter is gussied up to look like an androgenous, oiled-up fuck doll (gotta cover all the bases). Fucking creepy.
Actually most people were complaining that the characters—especially the women—looked particularly ugly.

Most of what I saw were androgynous Pats though some with facial hair. Could be a woman/man/trany for any preference in the HLGBT spectrum - ie: somwhat passable for anything at all... unappealing to most I would imagine.
 

GarfunkeL

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But don't you dare to post that the women look ugly at BSN, the social justice league will nail your balls to the wall. Apparently it's okay to fantasize about Tali's sweat but wanting feminine women in muh fantasy game is crossing the line.
 

Doctor Sbaitso

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SJW requirements:

Any NPC, either by supposition or preference by the player or by scripted choice of association by the NPC must have sufficient pretext and representation of any path which may bring the NPC to its current state of conciousness to current gender identification or sexual preference.

Translation: hetero, homo, trans should all have sufficient stimuli to fuck anyone (even without any understanding of 'what' the NPC is) because each character must be believably of any identity, from any path. This is why women look fugly to straight men, because we must consider that they may be perceived as trany men (initial self-image projected upon them by the malignant society), butchy lesbians or suitably ambiguous so as to support experimentation.

As I said, fucking creepy shit.
 

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