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Codex Review RPG Codex Review: Divinity: Original Sin 2

Darth Roxor

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hmm

you mean the island with the armor Roxor complained becomes obsolete too quickly?

yes, the same armour that you will probably assemble close to the end of that island

and for the record: singular pieces of it are useless because they are cursed if not used with the full set

Yeah, I got that. Do more damage, take less damage. Still not that unusual for RPG stats, is it? It's not a problem in itself without context.

there is no ability that makes you take less damage

nigga maybe you should read it again

Fail the persuasion check, have to fight. Doesn't sound out of place, really.

it does if the fight results in quest 'fail'

it does even more if fighting is not an option that will accomplish anything

you referred to all Larian games to justify goofy writing.

quite the jump between goofy writing and unbalanced shit combat

uhm ok, so it's got da lulz, how exactly is it grimdark then?

i meant divinity 2 as ego draconis, not dos2

As in, animal abuse doesn't exist (especially in faux-medieval times where we can assume people to use beasts of burden), or you don't want to hear about it?

there is a difference between the utilisation of animals for various purposes like farming and transportation, another whole different thing is gratuitous animal cruelty, which is precisely what i write about in the revio

you did read it, right

Good. Not that any of this would belong in a review of the game written for RPG fans.

ok i will now proceed to mention in every review i write that there was no contribution from MCA (including for games such as AoD and ELEX).

if anything, i even forgot that MCA was supposed to contribute to this game to begin with

I can respect you not liking the style, it's just that that's not really what you wrote in the review ("ubiquity"). Also bringing up mental illness in the context of presentation of sex and abuse simply makes people seem retarded, sorry not sorry.

ubiquity is a part of the presentation and style, the ubiquity of these things in dos2 is fucking ridiculous, and everyone is going to tell you that, so please stop being obtuse just for the sake of it

and again given how the subjects are handled and presented in the game is imo a clear sign of mental issues the writers might have, especially for animal cruelty - but i guess if you think no such conclusions can be drawn based on the "presentation of sex and abuse", i assume you are ok with child pornography?
 

Diggfinger

Arcane
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So in summary: D:OS2 sucks (big-time!) but DOS1 might be worth checking out. But normal version better than extended?
Btw. extended costs 33 EUR on GOG:outrage: worth it?
 

Perkel

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So in summary: D:OS2 sucks (big-time!) but DOS1 might be worth checking out. But normal version better than extended?
Btw. extended costs 33 EUR on GOG:outrage: worth it?

If you buy extended or classing you either way get both.
EE mostly adds voice acting and polishes up few things (and makes some things easier)
 

cvv

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Codex+ Now Streaming!
Pretty much. "Balancing" a game by making all action equally pointless, boring numeric tackons is what is wrong with these games.

No idea when exactly that happened but at some point people apparently started to think that this is what balance means and then proceeded curbstomping everyone advocating for balance. Puzzling.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
So in summary: D:OS2 sucks (big-time!) but DOS1 might be worth checking out. But normal version better than extended?

DOS1 is good for what it is. I did finish it (twice) so it's clearly in my top 50% but eh. It has some really well set-up encounters and it's fun -- for a quite a long while -- to find increasingly cheesy ways of beating them. But other than that, there's not a whole lot of there, there. It's a casual game masquerading as hardcore because it's turn-based and has insta-debilitate effects.

I especially did not care for the writing and worldbuilding; it's an obvious egotrip/themepark which doesn't even try to be internally consistent or pull you in that way. The continuous wink-wink-nudge-nudge really started to grate.

DOS2 was worse in every way, other than presentation/production values.
 
Self-Ejected

Sacred82

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Yeah, I got that. Do more damage, take less damage. Still not that unusual for RPG stats, is it? It's not a problem in itself without context.

there is no ability that makes you take less damage

nigga maybe you should read it again

more HP = less relative damage, dawg

Fail the persuasion check, have to fight. Doesn't sound out of place, really.

it does if the fight results in quest 'fail'

it does even more if fighting is not an option that will accomplish anything

y u no write in review then

you referred to all Larian games to justify goofy writing.

quite the jump between goofy writing and unbalanced shit combat

you think that because you don't care that much about writing but you care very much about combat. DivDiv had shit combat but at least the tone of conversations wasn't super cringey, that's why it's still my favourite Larian game.

As in, animal abuse doesn't exist (especially in faux-medieval times where we can assume people to use beasts of burden), or you don't want to hear about it?

there is a difference between the utilisation of animals for various purposes like farming and transportation, another whole different thing is gratuitous animal cruelty, which is precisely what i write about in the revio

you did read it, right

dude, you are aware that there is a connection between utilisation of animals for physical labour, and what we nowadays consider animal cruelty? Do you think people whose meager livelihood depends on driving animals to exertion every day have the same emotional connection that people have with their pets nowadays?

ok i will now proceed to mention in every review i write that there was no contribution from MCA (including for games such as AoD and ELEX).

if anything, i even forgot that MCA was supposed to contribute to this game to begin with

lol, I forgot the Kodex idol was brought up repeatedly in interviews in connection with this game.

You do understand that people will point out stuff like that being missing from your review, yes?

ubiquity is a part of the presentation and style, the ubiquity of these things in dos2 is fucking ridiculous, and everyone is going to tell you that, so please stop being obtuse just for the sake of it

ubiquity can relate to volume and timing, but it doesn't say anything about the quality of the writing.

Btw people, in a semi-realistic world, reproduction is a vital part of life. That means the subject should be prevalent in conversation. And just like IRL, it's not always gonna be pretty, sophisticated or aesthetically pleasing. You'll have drunks hitting on you while spilling their drinks, old women who want you to clean their pipes, and physical intimidation and threats pertaining to sex. If you think no one IRL can ask you to have sex out of the blue, I don't know where you've been living. The same problem exists with 'racism' in games - it doesn't really exist. It's fantasy racism that is either a) completely justified because the race is evul, or b) completely unjustified so the player can go on a virtual SJW crusade.

And don't go all muh fantasy on me, if you include real world themes (and really, how many fantasy themes have no connection to real life at all), you better do it in a way that is somewhat realistic.

and again given how the subjects are handled and presented in the game is imo a clear sign of mental issues the writers might have, especially for animal cruelty - but i guess if you think no such conclusions can be drawn based on the "presentation of sex and abuse", i assume you are ok with child pornography?

I'm definitely ok with people talking about anything and everything, wether in fictional works or IRL. If a game lets you do things that are taboo/ ethically questionable IRL, so much the better. Plz no kitchen psychology Roxor, people who have studied that shit still don't have much of a clue about what makes people tick, and anyone else throwing the term mental illness around don't exactly make themselves look better either.
 

Darth Roxor

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location: retardo mode is getting more overwhelming by the minute, so i'll just reiterate:

dude, you are aware that there is a connection between utilisation of animals for physical labour, and what we nowadays consider animal cruelty?

nigger you keep repeating the same shit all the time and completely ignoring everything i've written either in this thread or in the revio

i've specified multiple times what i mean by 'ubiquity', by 'animal cruelty/abuse', by the character system being inconsequential, etc, and yet here you are going "HURR BUT MUH CARTHORSES CUD BE CONSIDERED CRUELTY :retarded: " when I obviously don't mean that

what the fuck is wrong with you

also: my kitchen psychology sense is telling me you're a pedo, you heard it here first
 

Forest Dweller

Smoking Dicks
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
12,194
I've never been one to like Belgians.

Not their "chocolate" (with apologies to actual chocolate), not their politics, ethics or RPGs.

Not one of the Divinity games has entertained or impressed. Boring, mediocre, forgettable.

DOS2 is the only one I never tried, and thanks to brother Roxor, I won't have to.

Excellent review, 10/10 would read again.

edit: Their waffles are nothing to talk about either, forgettable like Larian games.:russiastronk:

More:

 

Darth Roxor

Royal Dongsmith
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i've specified multiple times what i mean by 'ubiquity'

how about if we stick with the commonly accepted definitions of terms like ubiquity if you want to avoid rambling incoherently in a fantasy language?

Noun
ubiquity
(countable and uncountable, plural ubiquities)

(uncountable) The state or quality of being, or appearing to be, everywhere at once; actual or perceived omnipresence.

Synonyms

sounds like a commonly accepted definition of what i'm trying to communicate

[Review by Darth Roxor]

Fuck off

wow so negative
0.gif
 
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Sacred82

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i've specified multiple times what i mean by 'ubiquity'

how about if we stick with the commonly accepted definitions of terms like ubiquity if you want to avoid rambling incoherently in a fantasy language?

Noun
ubiquity
(countable and uncountable, plural ubiquities)

(uncountable) The state or quality of being, or appearing to be, everywhere at once; actual or perceived omnipresence.

Synonyms

sounds like a commonly accepted definition of what i'm trying to communicate

sacred82 said:
ubiquity can relate to volume and timing, but it doesn't say anything about the quality of the writing.

Roxor said:
There's a question of taste, scale and competence. When it comes to taste, those bits are cringefests of the worst Biowarian kind.

sounds very much like what I said and only marginally like what you said.

If you've got no problem with the inclusion of sexuality, you should be able to accept the sheer volume of it. So the problem here really would be style/ taste, not omnipresence.
 

Van-d-all

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lmao'ing at everyone thinking RNG in RPGs only implies failure/success rolls for hits and crits

RNG is a great asset for determining following AI actions, preventing the player from just executing a flawless plan by having the enemy AI behave unpredictably and not like how you want them to. Maybe the AI has a grand keikaku of its own. I figure plenty of RPGs do already employ a bit of randomness for determining upcoming actions, however most AIs in RPGs are too simplistic and short-sighted in their behavior for the game to really rely on AI for making battles feel unpredictable and keep you on your toes, so they need to be made up for with rolls for hits and unique encounter design in order to make combat feel properly varied.

Exactly what I think, but as already mentioned, nowadays devs take an easy road so people are accustomed that RNG revolves around % hit. That's why the new SimsXCOM became the go-to sample for tactical gameplay. I'd love to see games where it actually affects what action NPC will undertake, especially in combat.
 

Kyl Von Kull

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
If you've got no problem with the inclusion of sexuality, you should be able to accept the sheer volume of it. So the problem here really would be style/ taste, not omnipresence.

Don't be ridiculous. In the words of smokin' Joe Stalin, quantity has a quality all its own. I have no problem with, say, fisting or [insert other fun perversion here], but would anyone really consider it a sign of great writing if every other NPC asked me to fist them in an RPG, especially if they did so very often? My guess is no. In fact, it would probably be pretty immersion breaking.
 
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Sacred82

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If you've got no problem with the inclusion of sexuality, you should be able to accept the sheer volume of it. So the problem here really would be style/ taste, not omnipresence.

Don't be ridiculous. In the words of smokin' Joe Stalin, quantity has a quality all its own. I have no problem with, say, fisting or [insert other fun perversion here], but would anyone really consider it a sign of great writing if every other NPC asked me to fist them in an RPG, especially if they did so very often? My guess is no. In fact, it would probably be pretty immersion breaking.

True, why would everyone be into fisting, there have to be some other fetishes as well.

If there's one thing that's immersion breaking it's if romance and sex pop up in your game once or twice, in an as carefully aestheticized way as possible. Either leave that shit out completely and focus on dragons n shieet, or do something with it.
 

Swampy_Merkin

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Soooo....the Codex's illustrious reviewer is an insecure hipster who likes throwing around the n-word....

Sounds about right for a circle-jerk site that slobbers over a Wiseau-ian hillbilly like Cleve Blakemore. I don't even disagree with a lot of the criticisms in the review...by the time I was half-way through the game I just wanted it to be over. But, unlike (the so unfunny it hurts) Roxor, I actually persevered. I was even rewarded with some really good battles at the end. I only joined simply because I fucking hate reading Roxor's hurr-durr misspellings like it was still 2002 and omg guyz the Strokzz are cumming!!O_O!!! And I needed to tell him so.

TLDR version of your entire website: all games sux now except made by racist cave-dwellers that play like the good old days when only social castoffs could admit liking rpgs.

Oh yeah, but we're still populated by voters who choose D:OS2 as their game of the year....just like everybody else in the gaming world.
 

Kem0sabe

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Shit combat, shit writing, shit setting, shit characters, shit quests = shit rpg.

They have a great engine to build something unique, but keep churning out all this crap... they have a huge gap in talent between their tech and their designers/writers.
 
Last edited:

Shilandra

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Roxor has a thing for generalizing his own preference, but saying that determinist system are somehow inherently worse than variance-based ones is one of the more absurd and obvious examples of this.

That said, I agree with most of his review.

And I keep hearing about bloat and inflated stats. How do players keep up if items and skills go up by small incremental amounts?

You change gear constantly. From a few hours into the game and forward, you will never be excited to see an item again, because you know it's up for replacement very soon.

This kills me a little inside to be honest.

Also with regard to the ongoing discussion about rng elements I've always been under the impression that the "no plan survives first contact with the enemy" doctrine isn't really talking about random mishaps during combat but your enemy outsmarting or outplanning you. Like, your plan didn't fall apart because your sharpshooter missed the headshot on the heavy gunner on the opening salvo (although that could possibly happen) but because their heavy gunner and bombadier flanked you and took out your sharpshooters because you didnt account for the underground tunnels you couldnt have known about.

Now I don't know how div2 handles its encounters but a system being more deterministic doesnt necessarily preclude dynamic and intersting encounters and varied combat. While it may be hard, if not impossible for AI to come up with counter plans like that devs making deterministic sysytems have absolute control over the environment and AI placement. Couple that with the natural element of surprise that exists simply from the players moving forward into the unknown and you can have very good deterministic systems in your rpg. Even better if enemies had access to prebuffing and player skills like sneaking.

Also I'm going to need examples of this sexual content stuff that's got people so riled up. This may be just me but I'm a purveyor of all types, genres, and lengths of erotica so I've pretty much seen all sorts of presentations. What's there in div 2 can't possibly be as overrepresented as people are making it out to be simply due to the fact of how massive this game sounds. So until I see some real proof I'm just going to assume that its people seeing something far out of the realm of what they're used to (written sexual prose) and giving it far more weight and attention than it really deserves.
 

Tigranes

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Why wouldn't it be 'random mishaps during combat'? Of course your sharpshooter will miss the headshot, of course a piece of equipment breaks down, of course someone misunderstands a command, of course the river happens to be deeper here for some reason, etc, etc.

Dunno about sex, all I remember is, as I described earlier in the thread, how without even trying to please your party member he randomly switches at some point to "OK enuff triggers 4 harem ending i luv u PLZ SEX MEEEEE" which is retarded but a specific instance.
 

Shilandra

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Why wouldn't it be 'random mishaps during combat'? Of course your sharpshooter will miss the headshot, of course a piece of equipment breaks down, of course someone misunderstands a command, of course the river happens to be deeper here for some reason, etc, etc.

Dunno about sex, all I remember is, as I described earlier in the thread, how without even trying to please your party member he randomly switches at some point to "OK enuff triggers 4 harem ending i luv u PLZ SEX MEEEEE" which is retarded but a specific instance.

Of course it can be random mishaps! My point was it doesn't HAVE to be just random mishaps. %chance to hit only really covers random mishaps though and doesnt really simulate those other aspects of battle you mentioned like the river and equipment breaking down.

My main point is that a more deterministic system can still function as a fun rpg combat system, especially when supplemented by good so placement and encounter design. It shouldnt just be dismissed out of hand as a not rpg combat system.
 

commie

The Last Marxist
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Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Shit combat, shit writing, shit setting, shit characters, shit quests = shit rpg.

They have a great engine to build something unique, but keep churning out all this crap... they have a huge gap in talent between their tech and their designers/writers.

Indeed. I liked the first but could always feel something nagging while playing that this engine deserved something more substantial...I'm glad the price of the second stayed high long enough for me to lose even a feeling of 'meh, it might be good for what it is' as on this evidence, unless they fix at least the combat system in an EE, Sven the snake oil peddler and his shitty team can fuck off.

I don't often agree with DR on game taste but he REALLY went in depth with the failings of the RPG elements and combat and these are a real dealbreaker. Thanks!
:bro:
 

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
Which reminds me: reviews on bad RPGs should be posted sooner, to prevent the disappointment of those who may buy them.
 

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