Official Codex Discord Server

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

Review RPG Codex Review: BATTLETECH

Discussion in 'RPG News & Content' started by Infinitron, Jun 16, 2018.

  1. lightbane Arcane

    lightbane
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Parrots:
    5,929
    Location:
    Neverwhere
    Click here and disable ads!
    Seeing that the Kingdom Come guy nearly had his career sabotaged by angry SJWs, it's this as well as Codex not being PC enough. Speaking of: Someone should post pics of that blatant tranny pilot that was also associated with failure.
     
    ^ Top  
  2. Chippy Educated

    Chippy
    Joined:
    May 5, 2018
    Parrots:
    226
    So my summary from reading this thread is; the writing is shit, even if you ignore that the gameplay mechanics are too frustrating, it doesn't hook you on the Battletech lore, and the tone of the game is comparable to Jordan Weismann and Mitch Gitelman being the George Lucas of Battletech and handing the reins over to Kathleen Kennedy?.
     
    • Yes Yes x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    ^ Top  
  3. Black Arcane

    Black
    Joined:
    May 8, 2007
    Parrots:
    1,866,522
    Just another case of has-beens.
     
    ^ Top  
  4. Nutria Learned

    Nutria
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Parrots:
    268
    This is what I keep coming back to every time I think about BattleTech. MechCommander might have dumbed down things like designing your mechs, but it was great at using combined arms to give you a lot of interesting tactical choices. In BattleTech, there isn't even any use for light mechs. You just bring whatever is the heaviest you've got and bang away at the enemy until they're all dead.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • Yes Yes x 1
    • Despair Despair x 1
    ^ Top  
  5. MF The Boar Studio Developer

    MF
    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2002
    Parrots:
    532
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    I mostly agree and I'll add that MP Skirmish is a major disappointment as well. My cousin is an avid TT player and we used to play a couple of games a year together. He moved to Canada, so we backed this..thing and thought we could get our fix playing this online. Not only are the mechanics inferior to the original game, but running it is such a drag that it would probably be faster to play tabletop. Including the flight over.

    That's not Unity's fault though. Unity is great and it doesn't have to run like shit. Poor performance is 100% Harebrained's fault. They load assets dynamically -which is useful if you want to do cosmetic in-app purchase DLC or something I guess? Otherwise a really bad idea-, they have multiple audio sources on each mech -how? why? didn't they learn how to overload audio sources?-, they didn't make custom LOD models -Unity's default distance decimation isn't bad, but in the case of blocky mechs this is such an obvious optimisation win that I don't know how they missed it-, they have bloated savegames with exponentially increasing metadata, they use resource-heavy shaders everywhere to cover up the fact that their terrain assets are weak, and most jarringly: The GUI uses raycasted sprites in 3D world space rather than a 2D overlay. That is fine for simple games and main menus, but complex interfaces like this should not be set up that way. It's so bad that dragging components onto hardpoints slows down the mouse cursor. Some of these decisions make me wonder if they have any decent programmers in-house. I guess you can blame Unity for that: You can develop a game with limited technical know-how. Still, if a carpenter builds you a shed with a leaky roof, are you going to blame the hammer?
     
    • Informative x 13
    • Brofist x 9
    • Interesting x 2
    • Agree x 1
    • Salute x 1
    ^ Top  
  6. Chippy Educated

    Chippy
    Joined:
    May 5, 2018
    Parrots:
    226
    That's just it though - these guy's are 'le version originale' in terms of Battletech. They're both savvy enough to know that fans like me gave up because of Microsoft after MW4, and nobody cared about MW5 and it's gold plated mech DLC. Fans wanted this: a mercenary campaign with resource management and perhaps even RPG elements. So it seems this review is pointing towards incompetence...there was enough oney raised...but the game is shit. Just amazing that the game has all the ingredients for success, but is shit for incompetence and/or a lack of talent.
    :dead:
     
    • Salute Salute x 1
    ^ Top  
  7. Gecos Learned

    Gecos
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2015
    Parrots:
    74
    Smells of budget issues and a game launched early due to that.
     
    ^ Top  
  8. Cael Ask me about Dragon Age Dumbfuck Edgy

    Cael
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2017
    Parrots:
    3,517
    What Battletech lore?
     
    ^ Top  
  9. Cael Ask me about Dragon Age Dumbfuck Edgy

    Cael
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2017
    Parrots:
    3,517
    Never, ever accuse SJWs of being savvy or competent. They are always more interested in shoehorning in their SJ causes than actually produce a quality product.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • STOP! posting STOP! posting x 1
    ^ Top  
  10. Cael Ask me about Dragon Age Dumbfuck Edgy

    Cael
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2017
    Parrots:
    3,517
    Don't forget that a lot of the early novels of the Battletech universe was actually written by Michael Stackpole, he of the fusion reactor going nuclear fireball fame. Weissmann may have little to do with the tone of the setting that subsequently evolved out of that. He may have been the numbers guy that came up with the rules set. Sort of like the difference between Jobs and Wozniak of Apple fame.

    So, when he finally tried his hand at writiing in the setting he helped create, it was a hatchet job of non-lore and SJW-ism simply because he had no idea what the setting is about. Oh, he knew the broad strokes (probably fed to him by someone) but the second he talked about GoT in space, I knew that he had no idea what the hell he was talking about.
     
    • I found this text to be too long and as such I didn't read it I found this text to be too long and as such I didn't read it x 1
    ^ Top  
  11. Black Arcane

    Black
    Joined:
    May 8, 2007
    Parrots:
    1,866,522
    In that case it's the OG creators failing to grab their own devs by the collar and making them create what they wanted, meaning they're incompetent.
    Has-beens or incompetents, which one is better and why?
     
    ^ Top  
  12. almondblight Arcane

    almondblight
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2004
    Parrots:
    2,306
    I think the Codex is still owed a visit to HBS from the SRHK fundraiser. These points could be made directly to them.
     
    ^ Top  
  13. Haba Harbinger of Decline Patron

    Haba
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2008
    Parrots:
    1,866,079
    Location:
    Land of Rape & Honey
    Codex 2012 MCA Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    Budget issue? Basic competence is now a budget issue?

    Some of those architecture and design choices sure probably caused a budget issue for HBS. But this is rank incompetence, nothing else.

    Through medium sized hammers and correctly applied pliers?
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    ^ Top  
  14. Clockwork Knight Arcane

    Clockwork Knight
    Joined:
    May 6, 2009
    Parrots:
    1,866,367
    Location:
    Castelo da tia Vânia
    choices and consequences in writing reviews

    :shredder:
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Sweat gathers upon my brow, let me dab it Sweat gathers upon my brow, let me dab it x 1
    ^ Top  
  15. thesheeep Arcane

    thesheeep
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2007
    Parrots:
    6,770
    Location:
    Tampere, Finland
    It kind of is.

    I studied programming with a bunch of other people about 10 years ago at a games school and I also spent two years being a lecturer myself there and at another games school.
    Over the years, I got to know a few really talented programmers and a truckload of untalented ones.
    Only very few of the talented ones work in the games industry any more - or in a manager-like position where they don't actually code any more.
    Of the untalented ones, about half stuck with the games industry.

    So less than 50% of programmers studying to get into games actually decide to stick with it.
    The reason is, of course, that working at games in most cases is just a bad job for coders. Pretty much guaranteed crunch time, pretty much expected to stay "a bit longer"(tm), payment that is WAY below the industry standard for programmers (If I was asked to join a game studio and told them my salary expectations, they would probably faint), constant incoming barrage of idiots cause everyone has an opinion about games and how to develop them.
    And, which was the main reason for me not stick with the games industry: You have to implement someone else's ideas. And they often suck. While you don't really get a say about it.

    Capable programmers are rare. Period.
    In the games industry, they are even harder to get. Most "game programmers" in mid-to-big studios by now are people who know Unity and some C# and that's about it. And that's what leads to shoddy coding as found in BattleTech.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2018
    • Informative x 6
    • Brofist x 2
    • Despair x 2
    • gimme dem dolla bills x 1
    • Agree x 1
    • decline x 1
    ^ Top  
  16. Haba Harbinger of Decline Patron

    Haba
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2008
    Parrots:
    1,866,079
    Location:
    Land of Rape & Honey
    Codex 2012 MCA Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    What is your salary expectation anyway?

    I'm guessing ~$70k/year for C# is industry average in kwanzania.

    For comparison, with certain business techology, junior tech staff member (entry-level) gets $105k/year salary w/o extras. The same thing at Microsoft is $100k/year. Add senior in there and you are looking at 70-80k more.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Yes Yes x 1
    ^ Top  
  17. thesheeep Arcane

    thesheeep
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2007
    Parrots:
    6,770
    Location:
    Tampere, Finland
    70k for more experienced ones, maybe.
    For me, it would be around 70-75k. For a 4-day week (I prefer having three free days over getting more dough) of 8 hours of working. If I wanted to work more days, or 1-2 hours more per day, you can adjust accordingly. I also don't quite know about the living cost in the US compared to where I live now, so that might require adjustment, too.
    And I don't consider myself extremely talented* or expensive.

    From what I have heard, it is more like gameindustrycareerguide.com writes:
    That is easily 25%-50% less than what you can earn elsewhere, especially if you are willing to move freely.
    I was offered a job in Turkey once where I could have earned >500€ per DAY. But who wants to live in Turkey?

    *Seriously, I don't. It might come off that way, but that is only because I witnessed so many programmers that are so utterly bad that it makes me seem like some kind of prodigy - whereas I just consider myself sufficiently capable.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2018
    • Informative Informative x 1
    ^ Top  
  18. Jack Dandy Arcane

    Jack Dandy
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2013
    Parrots:
    2,864
    Location:
    Israel
    Divinity: Original Sin 2
    :lol::lol::lol:
     
    • incline incline x 1
    • "It was Aliens" "It was Aliens" x 1
    ^ Top  
  19. Iskramor Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Iskramor
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2017
    Parrots:
    593
    Location:
    Montenegro
    :salute:
     
    ^ Top  
  20. Quillon Cipher

    Quillon
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2016
    Parrots:
    2,151
    I haven't seen gameplay of it nor played the game. What does infinite time (pauses) mean in TB? What is there to be simulated "more or less" in TB?
     
    ^ Top  
  21. FreshCorpse Educated

    FreshCorpse
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2016
    Parrots:
    78
    Yeah, just another professional programmer chiming in: I would be pretty reluctant to take a game development job. In my particular situation they pay cut might well be more than 50% and of course it would likely come with poorer long term prospects, longer hours and probably worse project management (already bad in most places!). That doesn't mean at all that there aren't people comfortable to do that to themselves to work on something they really like - I mean, wouldn't it be cool to work on something like Battletech at HBS? If you were really into tabletop or something? I'm sure there's some really strong people who would jump at that, I just think that there will be far fewer.

    The other point which I think is not made enough is that it is clearly cheaper to run a project in Unity. I think the alternative to Battletech in Unity is possibly no Battletech at all because doing it in something UE4 is prohibitive on cost grounds. I think Unity is a force for good because without it (and comparable engines) the CRPG renaissance of the last few years probably couldn't have happened.
     
    • not sure if serious not sure if serious x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    ^ Top  
  22. Black Arcane

    Black
    Joined:
    May 8, 2007
    Parrots:
    1,866,522
    Crpg reneissance?
     
    • it is a mystery x 2
    • Funny x 1
    • Yes x 1
    • "It was Aliens" x 1
    • Bad Spelling x 1
    ^ Top  
  23. FreshCorpse Educated

    FreshCorpse
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2016
    Parrots:
    78
    Oh yeah, I forgot, this is the codex so I should have included some alt-crpg comments about how Pillars is shit or "fuck wesp, vtmb is already perfect" something something
     
    • Participation Award Participation Award x 2
    • not sure if serious not sure if serious x 1
    ^ Top  
  24. Black Arcane

    Black
    Joined:
    May 8, 2007
    Parrots:
    1,866,522
    Even if there was a recent crpg reneissance, unity had nothing to do with it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Bad Spelling Bad Spelling x 1
    ^ Top  
  25. Fenix Liturgist Vatnik

    Fenix
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2015
    Parrots:
    3,215
    Location:
    Russia atchoum!
    It would be safe to assume that probably the same way as Bioware did they Androfailure - there is another kiva-programming gurl in the bowels of the HB...
    ...or what thesheeep said as well - when one field of industry bring significantly more money then other and thus sucks qualified personnel like a vacuum cleaner, so the rest re full of hacks.
     
    ^ Top  

(buying stuff via the above buttons helps us pay the hosting bills, thanks!)