Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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Review RPG Codex Review: Battle Brothers

Discussion in 'RPG News & Content' started by Infinitron, May 12, 2017.

  1. Make America Great Again Darth Roxor Prestigious Gentleman Wielder of the Huegpenis, Hater of Eternity

    Darth Roxor
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    Darth Roxor absorbs the butthurt to regain 4d6 HP
     
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  2. Mengsk Learned

    Mengsk
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    Lol people buttmad in dis tread :D

    Lovely.
     
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  3. Reinhardt Arcane

    Reinhardt
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    You don't need flails or axes. You can easily break their formation with baits and use of terrain.
     
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  4. Doctor Sbaitso SO, TELL ME ABOUT YOUR PROBLEMS. Patron

    Doctor Sbaitso
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    Darth Roxor let's see the skill trees and stats of your end game Bros.
     
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  5. TigerKnee Prophet

    TigerKnee
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    Is Complaining about Skeletons the new Rage-quitting after being rekt by Cursed Hounds?
     
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  6. Make America Great Again Darth Roxor Prestigious Gentleman Wielder of the Huegpenis, Hater of Eternity

    Darth Roxor
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    [​IMG]

    the terrain just begs to be used!

    ok here more or less

    Show Spoiler


    [​IMG]

    You can assume almost every shield guy is a clone of Chomikus, with only minor differences such as weapon mastery or the presence of taunt/nine lives.

    [​IMG]

    2H axe guy. I don't even know why I bothered giving him steel brow.

    [​IMG]

    Greatsword guy. Shield expert is a bit of a bummer but he started off as a shield guy and was later switched to greatsword.

    [​IMG]

    Banner guy. Don't ask me why he has executioner because I don't know. Must have been a "ugh what throwaway perk to pick now" moment.

    [​IMG]

    Archer. You can assume every other archer is also a carbon copy of this one.

     
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  7. Reinhardt Arcane

    Reinhardt
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    You don't need to stay at your starting position, if you didn't know.

    Also it's fucking auxillaries. Like one of the easiest enemies in the game.
     
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  8. Mortmal Arcane

    Mortmal
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    After reading the review i really dont want to spend money,its like nothing is fun and even the music is "good enough".. That will teach those three indies guys to not book advertisement on front page nor giving free trips and goodies!
    This will be lesson for others, pay and you get a massage from prima junta 's delicate hands , dont and you are good for merciless roxorisation.
     
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  9. Make America Great Again Infinitron Trade Master Patron

    Infinitron
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Haha - I don't think they'll mind if I post this:
    Show Spoiler

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. JarlFrank I like Thief THIS much Patron

    JarlFrank
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    I like the game but this much is true. Skellingtons are boring to deal with because they're so predictable. Just use crushing weapons and bash them till their health is gone, that's it.
    Wiedergangers at least have the gimmick of rising up after you kill them.
    All other enemy tyes (orcs, gobbos, humans) have more varied ways of attacking you (ranged weapons and shit) AND there are more varied ways to deal with them, too (wounding, get their morale down, etc).

    Undead are the least interesting and most grindy enemy to deal with, especially the undead legions.
     
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  11. Make America Great Again Eyestabber Arcane Patron

    Eyestabber
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    Then I can assume you don't know WTF you're doing, since you can't differentiate between a pure tank/early game footman and a hybrid/late game footman. Not taking berserk/killing frenzy on ANY of your "shield guys" = you're bad. Also, headhunter is very viable IF you have some synergy with it. Here is an example:

    [​IMG]
    No underdog and no rotation. This footman is VERY offense oriented. I made him so because he had Iron Lungs AND the +10% chance to hit the head from his background. See, unlike the bullshit you state in the review, BB actually DOES have a lot of variety in regards to builds. You simply couldn't be bothered to experiment. I'll be returning to this point once I finish my guide update on Steam.

    Because you don't understand that Steel Brow's effectiveness reduces as you get better helmets and it's only really decent for ppl who can't use good helmets anyway? (eg. archers and duelists). You would know that if you had actually bothered to learn the game. Also, Fearsome with a weapon that is VERY likely to hit the 15 HP threshold without it anyway? Ok... :roll:

    Choosing suboptimal perks when you're learning a game is normal and not at all reason to be ashamed. But claiming the game is badly designed because "I KEEP TRYING TO PICK THE LEAST USELESS PERK!!!" when you leave your 2H without Killing Frenzy and Recover is nothing short of

    [​IMG]


    This is Kotaku tier of idiocy and bad gameplay. So your sergeant has bad perks because "I DON'T KNOW WHICH ONE SUCKS LESS CUZ I CAN'T INTO MATH!". Where the fuck is either Nimble or Battle Forged!? And WHY IN THE NAME OF ALL THAT IS NON-RETARDED WOULD YOU PICK HEADHUNTER ON A GUY THAT ONLY HAS 1 ATTACK PER TURN AND WHOSE DAMAGE IS AWFUL ANYWAY!?!? Jesus...there is just so much wrong here I'm not even gonna bother to comment perk by perk, I'm just gonna post a proper SGT and leave it at that:

    [​IMG]

    Then I can assume you fucking hate your archers, because:
    - NO dodge (not mandatory, more on that later)
    - NO Nimble/Battle Forged
    - NO anticipation
    - Fast Adaptation. Unless you pick god awful recruits, FA is a terrible choice. Check online, lots of ppl did the math on FA and the bottom line is simple: only good during the very early game and on people that suck anyway.

    Also, crossbowmen differ from archers. I'll post my thoughts on xbowman when I update the guide.

    LOOK, Inb4 "I DON'T HAVE TO BE GUD AT THIS GAME, I HAVE A LIFE AND I CAN'T SPEND 450h INTO A GAME JUST TO WRITE A REVIEW, GRAAAAAAAA". I don't have a problem with people being bad at a game, we all have to start somewhere. But I DO have a problem with this:

    You have poor understanding of the mechanics and you're misrepresenting them in the review, turning away potential players from a good game. This is EXACTLY the same shit I p. much "crusaded" against during AoD release. Tons of idiots making bullshit claims about AoD's combat simply because they suck and couldn't be bothered to learn. I wrote guides, I made videos, I made a fucking Ironman run. Nothing changed. Morons gonna moron. And you're very close to joining their ranks with the quoted statement.

    Sry breh. I like your reviews and I picked up Blackguards solely because you recommended it (and played it for 100+ hours). But this time you missed the mark even worse than with Underrail.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
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  12. Make America Great Again Parabalus Arcane

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    There is nothing wrong with choosing bad perks, especially on your first playthroughs, but arrogantly stating that they are all bad, bland and deserve no further consideration is horsecock. Darth Roxor is channeling the very essence of

    :popamole: with such a stupid statement, ie. I will pick whatever I want because nothing matters.

    I do think the review is rather on point, the game requires a very specific mindset to enjoy. If you play on Ironman you could easily drop 500+ hours into it, I played without and had a good 50ish of enjoyment. Frequent restarts at the beginning of the sparsely documented learning process on ironman would have probably driven me off.
     
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  13. Excidium II Arcane

    Excidium II
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    Desperate nitpicking :hero:
     
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  14. Make America Great Again Darth Roxor Prestigious Gentleman Wielder of the Huegpenis, Hater of Eternity

    Darth Roxor
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    i think the only other shield guy i have there that reached high enough level to get the last 2 rows of perks is the other spearguy

    i used to have a bit more damaged-oriented shield guy once tho

    unfortunately he died, so it goes

    does it?

    probably my fav part of your pic is that the guy actually has gifted picked

    if that doesn't scream "i don't know what else here is actually useful", i don't know what is

    i did experiment plenty

    i barely noticed much difference between most experiment subjects

    or more like i must have taken it very early on when i was still mostly in the dark

    at least that i'm 100% sure was a last perk pick that i just put wherever the fuck i wanted

    now that i look at it perhaps something better could have been taken like battle-forged

    but let me axe you this - would that different perk COMPLETELY OMG CHANGE this guy's build? would it? or would it just stack up more numbers on him?

    1. this one iirc has a lot of inbuilt fatigue boosts. he doesn't need recover.
    2. no killing frenzy is a consequence of what i indicated before i.e. that he was remade from a shield guy and thus was short on perks. and given his abysmal morale and high melee defence, with the last perks i preferred to give him more stuff that would let him avoid getting hit (and start running), i.e. the reach advantage + underdog
    3. so in other words i should have made this guy more of a clone of the axedude? got it! :troll:

    he barely ever gets hit

    why would i pick nimble or battle forged on someone who barely ever gets hit?

    because i ran out of useful supportive things and started picking something that would offset his lack of offence

    perhaps i'm misremembering, but doesn't the standard have a +% to hit the head, just like other pikes? so there you have the reason for headhunter

    also, i see your bannerman and i see very little difference in how he actually behaves

    does that anticipation or whatever other stuff magically make him something else than just "stand behind with 1 kinda shitty attack a turn and toot from time to time"?

    also i can just as well lol @ your recover and polearm mastery on the bannerman. both are completely wasted.

    but it's k, i guess you just ran out of things to pick and started picking stuff at semi-random

    also gifted again for double lol

    this guy doesn't have dodge, iirc some others do. does it matter? does it make him superdifferent? also, he barely ever gets hit in melee.
    nimble/battle-forged -> he barely ever gets hit in melee.
    anticipation -> one or two others do have it. but considering my archers usually operate by first murdering the other archers before they can hit mine, well. and again - superdifferent build differences that adds supermuch difference?
    fast adaptation -> in case you didnt notice, this guy has NO stars in ranged combat. that i managed to get him over 90 is a miracle. also, "check online lots of ppl did the math" are you fucking serious? :lol:

    that is true, the crossbowguy was different a bit

    altho dun remember how now and i'm too lazy to check

    am i now

    except the vast majority of them are in fact bad and bland

    'hey want a free boost to some stat? ok here you go!' - best perks
     
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  15. Make America Great Again Eyestabber Arcane Patron

    Eyestabber
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    Do you even know what "nitpicking" means? Nitpicking would be doing this:

    Wrong. Those are two different ambitions. The "get 2k gold" gives you the standard and the "have a man with rally the troops" gives you the sash.

    THAT is nitpicking because the point is ultimately irrelevant. What I did in the quoted post was replying to Roxor's bullshit that "perks are useless, HUURRR" by pointing out he doesn't know WTF he is talking about. The usefulness of perks IS a relevant point, because it ties into character progression which happens to be a CORE mechanic of the game. If you take Roxor's cock off your mouth, you'll quickly realize that I'm right. I never argued points like "game is repetitive" and "it could have a bit more content" because I agree with them and see no need to argue.

    [​IMG]
    Heavy archer. No gifted. Some builds are tight on perks, others aren't.

    Since you already equated "builds" to "archetypes", it only follows that you wouldn't see much difference. It's almost like saying Xenonauts has only "pew pew" guy and "kaboom" guy.

    No. Reach Advantage, for instance, is terrible for a 2H Axeman.

    Fine.

    You don't say... :roll:

    :lol: Nice excuses, m8.

    Because 1) ranged attacks exist, 2) if your Sarge dies you're REALLY screwed mid-to-late game and 3) so you can use your SGT to bail out ppl who get in trouble and NOT get him killed.

    This quote proves you never faced more than maybe one or two geists at the same time. Once they force you to spam rally with your sargeant Recover becomes mandatory. Not exactly a random perk, eh? As for polearm mastery, it helps reducing fatigue consumption. So...not a random choice.

    As for tactics, I also use my SGT to help with positioning by rotating 2H into position for an AoE strike, rotating archers away from charging Orcs/Necrosavants and bailing out whoever gets into trouble. That can only be achieved with high fatigue, hence Recovery. So, no, it's not just hiding behind a dude and rallying from time to time, tho that IS the main function of a SGT.

    Archers get hit by ranged weapons all the time. Once you start meeting Master Archers and copious amounts of goblins I can assure you your archers will die LONG before they can kill all archers on the other side. But anyway, wtf do you want with "would it be so different"? NO, it would still be a "Board Game Like Tactical RPG" made by a 3 dudes team with (understandably) almost no animations.

    It's funny how you demand completely different playstyles and god knows how many viable builds, while completely forgetting that the very games you referenced (X-Com and JA2) DO NOT HAVE such features. Last I checked, every guy in X-Com eventually becomes "Flying Heavy Plasma dude with (maybe) a blaster launcher and (maybe) space magick". JA2 has fighter, support (mechanic/medic) and...melee? If you're feeling funny, I guess? Stealth? Not much variety the way I see it, when push comes to shove you just have soldiers that are good at shooting stuff and soldiers that aren't. Does the lack of build variety damn those games? No. Then WHY does it damn BB?

    If you wanna call them "bland" because they don't have much impact in the way you play the game, I'll just say "whatever floats your boat, I guess". But here is the thing: when you say "perk choices don't matter!!!" you're implying that, well, they REALLY don't matter aka encounter design is balanced around passive scaling and perks only give you an illusion of choice. Good examples of this would be both PoE and Witcher 3. You can win regardless of how badly you fuck up your builds.

    In BB...not so much. First of all, there is no passive leveling. Either you take a perk/stat or you don't. And I can say from experience with 100% certainty that if you botch MOST of your builds (because you were trying some crazy shit) you WILL get anally raped come the FIRST late game crisis or even before that. So, guess what: your leveling choices DO matter. And although several perks have barely noticeable effect (eg: anticipation) some of them are pretty blatant in their effect. Rotation, Berserk, Recover, Duelist. Just to name a few.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
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  16. Gulnar Learned

    Gulnar
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    Tbh i had pretty much the same opinion: a great engine, a mediocre game.
     
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  17. hivemind Arcane

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    so many desperate fanboys lmao
     
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  18. MRY Prestigious Gentleman Wormwood Studios Developer

    MRY
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    I like the idea of Roxor being called in by the president, Armageddon style, to deprogram some cult member that no one else can rescue.
     
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  19. hivemind Arcane

    hivemind
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    there is nothing interesting to experiment against
    encounters and enemies are samey as fuck so why bother getting into the absolute nitty gritty of scrounging through the character system

    BB is a 20-30 horus game for anyone that doesn't suffer from some sort of an autism-lite obsessive disorder that they don't mind banal repetition
     
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  20. Make America Great Again Parabalus Arcane

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    There are only 4 pure stat boosts in the entire perk tree even if you are being very liberal with naming them.

    Gifted vs FA is interesting on archers, I picked FA first time, same as you, but interchanging it with gifted is worth it depending on where your guy's RA caps out and what you're shooting at. It's a compelling gameplay choice, if it's not relevant that's a problem of the game being too easy, not a fundamental one.


    I can't recall a game in recent memory where every perk choice felt so hard, it's remarkably well balanced. That's a fact regardless of your thoughts on the merit of the core gameplay, I do agree it gets repetitive, can't really imagine how people get triple digit hours in it.


    Disagree, it's brutal on 2h axes. You can aggressively position for round swings knowing you will easily hit 100+ Mdef and be invulnerable.
     
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  21. Excidium II Arcane

    Excidium II
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    It's nitpicking because it's a review not a strategy guide.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
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  22. hivemind Arcane

    hivemind
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    rated retarded because of the pointless full quote
     
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  23. Jaedar Arcane Patron

    Jaedar
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    Libelous slander! Glorious Jaedar has best perks. Best bannerman of all the brothers!
     
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  24. Make America Great Again Darth Roxor Prestigious Gentleman Wielder of the Huegpenis, Hater of Eternity

    Darth Roxor
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    excuses?

    it's the fucking core of my argument you goddamn illiterate

    check your fucking "heavy archer" - the ONLY PRACTICAL DIFFERENCE between him and mine is that he has heavier armour, and this ISN'T ANYTHING governed by the character advancements - the characters in this game are ruled in 80% by their gear, 20% by their perks

    I could probably take another archer I have and the only difference would be that my dude has pathfinder + something else while yours has battle-forged + recover

    and what do you fucking know, what ACTUALLY MATTERS FOR THEM, they have THE SAME. Everything else is flavour at best.


    The same is true for your sergeant vs my sergeant. The same is true for "zomg you coulda taken something else instead of fearsome". The same is true for "WOW WHY NO KILLING FRENZY." It matters little to nothing if I picked those perks over the ones I have. The characters would still be acting the same and doing the same things.

    This isn't differentiation. It's just min-maxing using a pool of lacklustre shit. In essence it isn't at all different from MMO-like "do I pick +1% damage or +3% hp?"

    Also notice how many of these perks we have shared among different dudes to boot too - brawny, battle rage, rotation, berserk, colossus, battle-forged. You also seem to pack recover on everyone and gifted on most. And you are trying to tell me something is NOT up here?
     
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  25. JarlFrank I like Thief THIS much Patron

    JarlFrank
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    Are you gonna make a game about it?
     
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