Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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Review RPG Codex Retrospective Review: Pillars of Eternity Revisited

Discussion in 'RPG News & Content' started by Infinitron, Jul 4, 2017.

  1. Make America Great Again Jasede Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    You're a fucking moron if you are such an asshat you can't read my consistent posts and still not grasp I am the opposite of a relativist. When I extend a relative olive branch it is because the argument has grown boring and is not making headway; I can still deep down prefer my way without rubbing it in someone's face and being an asshole about it.

    Sadly a kind of moron like yourself, shat out from a disgusting cunt, wouldn't grasp these subtleties.
     
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  2. Old One Magister

    Old One
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    This is off on a tangent, but I've always considered prestige classes to be little more than a crass marketing ploy by WoC. They promote every garbage product they make by saying it includes a few new prestige classes. Their customers have a carefully-cultivated craving for them.

    Carry on...
     
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  3. Fenris 2.0 Learned

    Fenris 2.0
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    Discussing Presitige Classes is more interesting then PoE;

    so: being able to join the Knights of Solamnia after being knighted because of a very heroic deed and taking the appropiate Prestige Class is cool, becoming a Tempest to optimize Dual Wield by taking some pretty useless Feats for a Dual Wielder is not.
     
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  4. Prime Junta Arcane

    Prime Junta
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    :stupid:
    This is how I encouraged use of prestige classes in my campaign (partly because all but one didn't care all that much for minmaxing). One of them got to pick Royal Explorer after being appointed one by the King of Zhou for story reasons. (I had to waive some of the requirements, but since I'm DM I get to do that when narratively appropriate.)
     
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  5. Lhynn Arcane

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    Grunker Prime Junta 3E charbuilding is frontloaded and shit, PoE charbuilding is frontloaded and shit. Most games charbuilding is frontloaded and shit, and its by design. And i hate it.
    This is the reason im so in love with 5e, its completely up to the player what comes next, all choices are at least worth considering, it doesnt punish free form gameplay and almost every alternative is viable. This is how systems should be designed imo, its a beauty.
     
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  6. Ibn Sina Barely Literate

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    Obsidian is trash. Never have I been exposed to such a dull and uninspired fantasy setting like that of PoE. That fact that they made the black people Italians and the faux historian Josh Swayer excused it by basically saying that he does not know any other civilizational trope to associate them with and thus went for the tried and true Euro angle. He could have used Swahili culture for instance, which was a hot bed of trade and commerce all the way to the 17th century. Or he could have made the Vailans similar to Imperial Mali in its glory days, with its powerful Mansa ruling an abundantly rich empire all across the Niger river. Its trade and Influence extending all the way to the Nile bastion and North Africa. There are dozens of interesting and colorful cultures they could have used , but they made them Italians, which shows how extremely dull and uninspired the writers of this setting are. They know nothing about the world.
     
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  7. Hell March Educated

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    Clearly you're not using "frontloaded" in the way I'm used to hearing it--that's usually used as a criticism for games that have character building and leveling systems bound to their starting point. 3.5, with it's many problems, is the exact opposite of frontloaded because the choices you make at character creation have only a slight bit of impact on how you would end up at high levels, not counting dumb stuff like Rogue/Fighters being better off starting as Fighters than Rogues because of the extra HP. 5E has characters that are almost fundamentally complete at character creation because of the archetype system. Clerics have to make a choice of domains at character creation which have class features that they literally will not get for another 5 levels.

    And in POE every feat/talent/whatever is completely inconsequential so the only leveling mechanism that actually matters is the Wizard picking spells.
     
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  8. Lhynn Arcane

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    In 3E if you havent mapped your character build before you named your character you are doing it wrong. Hilariously wrong in fact, you will more than likely end up with a useless gimp. The system was designed with a lot of bad options that will ruin your character, in fact almost every feat, every skill and every class in the game is a trap choice, this also includes around 90% of the prestiges.
    This is the shit that traumatized sawyer so bad that he ended up doing a 360º, and ended up being equally bad for different reasons.

    This is false, you can make a paladin/wizard/rogue and still end up being good, not as strong as a pure class but fairly flexible and with tons of valid options in any given encounter. You can suddenly at level 10 as a cleric take a level in barbarian and get something out of that choice, your character wasnt ruined, you just opened another venue for the character in exchange for closing a different one.

    Every class is like this, subclasses, which for example as a wizard you pick at level 1, as a fighter at level 3, grant different features until level 17 or so. But a ton of characters can take just the first level of wizard for the level 1 class feature, or the first level of cleric for the first level features and pick a different class to advance. This will not really diminish the character, it will simply open new options at the cost of not opening a different door.

    It is true that the first levels of classes tend to be really great compared to the ones that follow, but this is because the ones that follow build up on existing skills, and mechanically theres always more value on specializing than on becoming more flexible, unless you give a real boost to said flexibibility.

    Also in true Dnd fashion a rogue/barbarian is a great combo, you can larp conan and be effective!

    This is not true tho. In PoE your choices do have consequences, you can end up with a shit character thats a pain to play, or you can end up with one that can solo the entire campaign.
    The problem with PoEs system does not lay in the importance of the choices in any given build.

    This isnt true either. As a wizard you can pick up every spell in the game as you adventure anyway.

    Your ignorance is pretty staggering, go back to lurking, come back in 2020.
     
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  9. Serious_Business Best Poster on the Codex

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    So... "Piles of Shit", eh? Instead of "Pillars of Eternity". I see...

    *foot on table*

    *lights up that cigar*

    I understand now.

    *spits on the ground*

    You're gonna clear that shit up right now

    So, as I was saying. It's all about Balders Gate. You heard about that game?

    Old... school... design!

    *throws the fucking table*

    What the fuck are you even reading!
     
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  10. Hell March Educated

    Hell March
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    Feats and skills (as systems) aren't traps because they are things that everyone gets and are all equally meaningless with the exception of magic feats + Use Magic Device skill. Furthermore, it is very unlikely you will ever make a choice that will "ruin" a character, outside of doing something like playing a Bard without Perform which no decent DM would ever allow you to do. You can of course make tons of bad choices and end up with something suboptimal, but it is almost impossible to screw up a character so bad that they are significantly worse than their bare chasis. Meanwhile, you can do this in 5E, by picking flatout inferior archetypes like the Berserker Barbarian or the Champion Fighter.

    The core problem with 3E is that the difference between the classes in power is unbelievably wide. It is so wide that there is probably no game in existence with it's level of imbalance. The issue with feats and skills are not that you are trapped by taking them, it's that relying on them for a character build (exception, Use Magic Device) is a waste of time because spellcasting is the only class feature that provides a significant increase in power. "Ruining your character" is not the problem, having a character concept that is unplayable from the start is the problem.

    If you are trying to optimize your character concept then you are indeed doing something incredibly wrong by not mapping out a build, but this is no different than 5E or really any game ever made.

    But that's not what I said, I said that characters are fundamentally complete at character creation in 5E. It is true that some effective multiclass dips can greatly increase a character's effectiveness, but since not focusing on a core concept has been a bad idea since the concept of classes have ever existed, you will still be leveling one class over all others, meaning your build is defined by the class features you determine at level 3ish. It's like a World of Warcraft subclass.

    Multiclassing has no significant diminishment on character in 3E either, unless you're playing a Druid because a druid's base chasis is totally nuts.

    I've never played a solo-run but I have played Path of the Damned and I can assure you that outside of making flatout retarded choices like maxing perception and dumping constitution, you pretty much cannot screw up a character in PoE. The game is so tactically vapid that as long as you put good armor on your tank and have some sort of of hard cc, you will win every time. I remember picking several feats for the Druid companion that I later learned he had absolutely no use for, and gave him really garbage equipment, he was still effective. Likewise my main character was a chanter, generally considered to be the worst class in the game, I had terrible Resolve and it still never mattered.

    I'm sure you can somehow game the system and get insanely powerful characters but none of it matters when the game is so vapid, simplistic and meaningless.

    I was really only being kind when I said that, it barely matters at all.
     
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  11. Lhynn Arcane

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    Wrong.

    Wrong. Playing a monk in a party of clerics means you are playing a broken class that simply does not work in a group with characters that even with bad attributes outclass you in every way, before we take into account their casting.

    This is nonsense. Champion fighter gives you twice as many criticals instead of giving you maneuvers or low level spells. Berserker gives you extra attacks attack instead of giving you resistance to elemental damage. In the first case if you are lucky it can be the better choice in almost every fight. In the second case it means that going berserker instead of bear totem can be the better choice for entire campaigns if there isnt much magic involved.
    Yes on some encounters they are worse, but they can still do just as well as any other under most circumstances, and even better under specific ones.

    Thats enough to make it unplayable on any level outside of single player.

    Thats nonsense too, psionics are an option, maneuvers are another option. The right combination of feats outside of casting feats can also enable you to dish out thousands of points of damage per round after level 10.

    What the fuck does this even mean? you can ruin your character from the get go.

    In 3e you are either optimizing your character or you are dooming it to failure. In 5E you can pretty much play anything and do just as well, just in different areas.

    Wrong. You can take 10 levels of bard after 6 of fighter and then go with wizard 4 and still end up with something playable and competitive in 5e, without even having high charisma or intelligence. In 3e you just ruined your character horribly forever.

    Wrong again. In 3E if you take any level of anything outside of a very specific build, you done fucked up. Its as simple as that.

    That you dont need the absolute best build to beat the game with a party doesnt mean that build choices doesnt matter, it just means the rest of your party members can effectively pick up the slack.

    I cant believe i have to defend this retarded shit from an ignorant asshole but what you are saying is beyond the point, you claimed build choices didnt matter in PoE, but they do. Demonstrably so.
     
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  12. Prime Junta Arcane

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    :popcorn.gif:
     
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  13. duanth123 Arcane

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    Let this be our truly final word on Pillars of Eternity.
     
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  14. MicoSelva Prestigious Gentleman Monstroterratum Furiosum Patron

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    Codex 2012 Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Divinity: Original Sin 2 Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
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  15. Make America Great Again DramaticPopcorn Arcane Patron

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    This review is a piece of history and a grim reminder why holocaust should have happened
     
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  16. Make America Great Again Irenaeus Self-Ejected Patron Dumbfuck Repressed Homosexual The Real Fanboy

    Irenaeus
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    Another review?
     
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  17. Make America Great Again Lord Andre Arcane

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    Like the gorillions of jews who perished in the holocaust, POE's supposed greatness increases with every retelling / review.

    I rate :roll::roll::roll::roll::roll: / :roll::roll::roll::roll::roll:
     
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  18. Lurker King Arcane The Real Fanboy

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    This review reminded me of denialists saying that the holocaust never happened.

    Get it all on record now – get the films – get the witnesses – because somewhere down the track of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened.
     
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  19. Make America Great Again Lord Andre Arcane

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    Semitic history aside, this game has been, is and will be - forever shit. Let this be the final word on the matter.

    Show Spoiler
    Suck my cock fanboys.
     
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  20. ga♥ Educated

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    ...hey, what about black people being italians? Is that in PoE2? Can someone explain (possibly not an obsiddian shill)?
     
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  21. duanth123 Arcane

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    Aided by adra, natch.
     
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  22. Make America Great Again Darth Roxor Prestigious Gentleman Wielder of the Huegpenis, Hater of Eternity

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    Lyric Suite
     
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  23. Make America Great Again Irenaeus Self-Ejected Patron Dumbfuck Repressed Homosexual The Real Fanboy

    Irenaeus
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    it's obviously that butthurt German Soy-er being raycis to the Latin masterrace.

    omnia vincit fides
     
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