Codex Review RPG Codex Retrospective Review: Pillars of Eternity Revisited

[Iskramor]

You gays are still at this? WTF.
Why are you even discussing character builds when minute to minute gameplay of PoE is cancer. Every character having their own turn, every attack having different time of attack animation and recovery time, engagement system combined with terrible pathfinding during combat. No pre buffing, no running away from combat, spell effects and shit still obscuring the battlefield. The stupid low health high weapon damage system where it is almost expected in tougher fights some of your characters will fall down so the retard Sawyer can use the Constitution sytem as a way to force people to rest. He made the graze system for this reason and even left the full effect of disable spells but only with shorter duration.
Character builds mean shit if gameplay itself is cancer. And I didn't even mention tank and spank tactics that were supposedly fixed in 3.0 or something (but I bet you can still position 2 melee at door for same effect which is how I did most encounters in 1.0 anyways).

EDIT: Oh and how do character build help to survive the lore dumps or shit story and terrible main antagonist? Or 100 other problems with story and setting.

Actually, this is 100% correct. PoE could be 1000 times more complex than all IE games put together, but the absolute shit gameplay would still be there.

Refrain from insults if you want to participate in civilized debate and try use some arguments instead . This is not about sawyer its about d&d being fundamentally flawled system made by someone detached from reality ligic and simple math.

The system if flawed because you don't understand the concept of abstraction. Sure.
And talking about making sense when here we have a system where strength increases magic power and you have an infinite inventory, but that's only accessible when Sawyer wants.
I never thought I'd see someone comparing D&D to this negatively based on making sense, but here we go. A new brand of retard.

And learn some English if you want to have any kind of conversation. Also, you are completely clueless about not only D&D, but about RPG systems and gaming in general. I suggest you die.

I do understand concept of ideas but not illogical and non sensical ones try http://www.basicfantasy.org/ its very solid it takes good things from d&d and removes the bad one. This is not about sawyer or poe or IE games (in particular) i aleady told you.
Making sense in systematic sense ofc just becasue its fantasy does not justify flawled foundations of combat . And nope magic fantasy fiction cant explain or defend Armor class THAC0 and spell memeorization etc...

 

[Crescent Hawk]

Its still a boring as shit setting and game, but nevertheless along with Underrail the best that came out. Fuck shadowrun and tides Numanuma.

 

[Iskramor]

They've resorted to posting edgy memes and raging. I guess that means we won.

They lost the exact moment when they used insults and ad hominems this review rekted ad&d fans pretty hard

 

[Kev Inkline]

Ad hominems at RPGCodex? I think you're retard.

 

[Lurker King]

They lost the exact moment when they used insults and ad hominems this review rekted ad&d fans pretty hard

No, we would lose if we dignified your delusions with a gravity they don't deserve.

 

[Janise]

I, for one, sold my PC and will buy a budget rig when Sawyerism 2 comes out.

 

[Serious_Business]

Ooo yeah baby

Not sure if there ever was a debate about this game. I mean, a lot of us don't recognize the IE games as being worthwhile, so why should a successor be anything else than annoying? This is the root of it. If you want to show the value of this game you'll have to argue the value of Rtwp combat, and you'll fail. Grunker is a cool guy and I'd like to have a beer with him and everything, but it doesn't stop me from wanting to stab him in the gut and fuck his girlfriend while he bleeds out. I love you and all but sometimes the truth is more important

 

[FeelTheRads]

Point of comparison is the "standard" ranger, built around ranged weapons with the pet a tanky meat shield and you the main damage dealer. In this case you'll have the pet in the frontline as you hang back shooting away, healing your pet with your pet-healing talents as necessary. The pet is primarily a "spotter."

Both require you to coordinate the pet and master, but the way you coordinate them is completely different. The first build will have brutal single-target damage output, but it will only be able to attack frontline targets; the second build will be a mage-killer as your tanky pet will be able to scoot behind enemy lines and your ranged ranger will be able to quickly eliminate them at... range. Almost as if they were two completely different kits!

For extra fun, throw a standard stealthy DPS rogue that follows the pet around and has a fast rate of movement. The ranger synergizes with the pet and the rogue needs no active abilities because he can gain sneak attacks by flanking the pet's melee targets. If the rogue gets targeted by enemy frontliners, intercept them with the tanky pet while he runs away. You can gib the entire enemy backline before the rest of your party mops up the frontliners.

It's not just builds within the classes, but also how you can uniquely build the entire party around one idea. For another example, here's a tanky chanter that is compeletly unfazed by having his own wizards drop cold spells on his head:

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/86968-class-build-chillfog-cool-soothing-chanter-tank/

Yawn, disgusting MMO char-building with specific items being the backbone of builds.
Front lines, back lines lol. You're trying so hard to make it sound like this game is anything more than select->attack.

 

[Prime Junta]

Yawn, disgusting MMO char-building with specific items being the backbone of builds.

Rather droll, considering that specific items as the backbone of builds is the /only/ way to apply player creativity to them in the IE games.

 

[Iskramor]

They lost the exact moment when they used insults and ad hominems this review rekted ad&d fans pretty hard

No, we would lose if we dignified your delusions with a gravity they don't deserve.

Best refutation ever. Only delusions i see is claiming that IE games had more buid diversity then poe which is simply ignorant but keeping claiming same notion even when faced with empirical evidence is simply laughable. Same goes for defending AD&D. Did anyone even read the review or played game in entirety?

 

[ga♥]

Who cares about builds diversity when the settings, or the lore, is utterly boring crap.
Get over it. POE story is shit. Eora is shit. The story of the game is boring, meaningless, and makes no sense.
Go play a character build simulator mongoloids.

"muh build diversitee"

 

[Quillon]

Who cares about builds diversity when the settings, or the lore, is utterly boring crap.
Get over it. POE story is shit. Eora is shit. The story of the game is boring, meaningless, and makes no sense.
Go play a character build simulator mongoloids.

"muh build diversitee"

Yep, after 26 pages ruleset argument failed, "muh nostalgia", back to shitting on content. Well at least here I might agree some, even devs openly acknowledge game's objective shortcomings.

 

[ga♥]

The system is objectively bad as already pointed out. But I personaly could "digest" POE boring "all builds work" shit if the setting could let me have some sort of immersion in the game.

 

[luj1]

Grunker is a cool guy and I'd like to have a beer with him and everything, but it doesn't stop me from wanting to stab him in the gut and fuck his girlfriend while he bleeds out.

Assuming nordi-cucks even have girlfriends, some sweaty migrant must have pounded her rectum already. With Grunker's blessing, of course.

 

[luj1]

I wish Joshua will make rulesets for a Diablo game. His deranged horseshit would go well with realtime combat and level cap 1000.

 

[ilitarist]

When I see people shit on Pillars of Eternity I wonder what are those magical great RPGs they've played that are better.

Then say something about Baldur's Gate and I'm losing interesting. At least it's funny if they're talking just about story - yeah, BG was bigger and had a very different style of a Disney fantasy - but gameplaywise?.. Come on.

 

[Iskramor]

Who cares about builds diversity when the settings, or the lore, is utterly boring crap.
Get over it. POE story is shit. Eora is shit. The story of the game is boring, meaningless, and makes no sense.
Go play a character build simulator mongoloids.

"muh build diversitee"

I joined system/builds discusion not lore/world one but i agree with your theme changing comment. World and lore are generic. Thats because obsidian wont hire descent writers because thye think that average pc rpg gamer is high school teen who dont appreciate good story which is false. Carrie Patel is amateur who managed to wrote one of the worst companion ever in rgp gaming in general aloth. Deadfire will be final and LAST TEST for obsidian if they fail they are better closing studio off or switching to f2p games.

 

[Darth Roxor]

When I see people shit on Pillars of Eternity I wonder what are those magical great RPGs they've played that are better.

Then say something about Baldur's Gate and I'm losing interesting. At least it's funny if they're talking just about story - yeah, BG was bigger and had a very different style of a Disney fantasy - but gameplaywise?.. Come on.

dungeon siege 3

 

[Delterius]

When I see people shit on Pillars of Eternity I wonder what are those magical great RPGs they've played that are better.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=9453

number 8 is pretty great

 

[Ulfhednar]

Yawn, disgusting MMO char-building with specific items being the backbone of builds.
Front lines, back lines lol. You're trying so hard to make it sound like this game is anything more than select->attack.

Ughh... Pearls before swine.

My first example - Ranger/Pet and Rogue - doesn't even mention items. The items for the chanter aren't critical either. Neither of these strategies works if you point and click.

The two most important numbers from the chanter example are the +230% healing and the 36 DR against freeze. For the healing bonus, items provide +40% and the rest comes from talents and chanter phrases/abilities. Because he is pale elf and has the secrets of rime talent, he has 18 Freeze DR completely naked and ANY plate armor will provide him with 12+ more freeze DR.

Did you even play this game?

The author has this to say about why he picked those specific items: "And what he also can do is use those freeze spells from his items. Getting the Winter Shield from Azurro can be difficult, but it's relatively easy to get the White Spire from Dunstan at Crucible Keep. Together you will have 6 ice good spells that also work with Secrets of Rime.

I also decided to wear the White Crest armor. It's not strictly ice themed but fits beautifully. And look how awesome it looks with the White Spire. In fact this is the only reason I added another variant to this build."

 

[ilitarist]

dungeon siege 3

It's not a party RPG.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=9453

number 4 is pretty great

And I enjoyed it at the time. Unlike BG1, mind you. But it was mostly about the world and the atmosphere and the grand adventure. Combat system in those game is just bad. For a decent combat system I had to look into systemic, mechanical RPGs, or strategy RPGs. Pillars of Eternity at least gave you some sort of combat engine with real decisions instead of figuring out which spells are added to game as a useless trap choice.

 

[Grunker]

You're trying so hard to make it sound like this game is anything more than select->attack.

Fortunately, streaming is really easy, so go tape yourself while you clear... let's just say Longwatch Falls by selecting and attacking. I'm sure we'll only be waiting a short time for this demonstration.

 

[Delterius]

Combat system in those game is just bad.

Good one. If someone argues nothings about Pillars, let's misrepresent the other one. And yet:

"What RtwP RPG should I play first?"

"Baldur's Gate 2 is probably the best expression of the subgenre, the premier example of everything that it stands for and all iliterates who disparage it should be banned from the Internet. With God's approval, Deadfire shall rival it in scope."
-Saint Sawyer, the German

In fact, all the improvements from WM and 3.0 brought Pillars that much closer to Baldur's Gate 2 and AD&D.

 

[ilitarist]

"What RtwP RPG should I play first?"

"Baldur's Gate 2 is probably the best expression of the subgenre, the premier example of everything that it stands for and all iliterates who disparage it should be banned from the Internet. With God's approval, Deadfire shall rival it in scope."
-Saint Sawyer, the German

Scope is the best thing about BG2 and one of the thing which PoE1 lacked compared to BG2, right next to crafting system raping item variety in pre-expansion days. Other things are either better, like everything about combat and character progression, or completely different direction, like dark historical fantasy atmosphere, wordcount bloat and story structure. If they perfect their own direction by adding things like reasons for player to progress and not throwing walls of text on us - scope will be the only thing that BG2 is unambiguously good at compared to PoE. Though I doubt they'll be able to make places as atmospheric as BG2 had them, BioWare is great at sound design for some reason and it made cities feel lively.

 

[Sentinel]

- Party ability scores count towards your score checks, making the player character even more irrelevant than they were in PoE1
- Deleveled player character back to level 1 for no reason, gonna have to progress through the same 9 levels of spells before you see anything new

PoE2 is already doomed to be underwhelming at best.