Editorial RPG Codex Report: A Codexian Visit to OtherSide Entertainment

[Infinitron]

Hickman's just writing a novel. There's no indication of him writing directly for the game, though I suppose the writing for the Dark Elves will make some indirect references to whatever he comes up with.

1 & 2) I'm no fan of SotA myself but from a marketing standpoint I understand why they wanted the association. They felt by linking the two worlds OtherSide would get many of those MMO pledgers to pledge for this one (also why I think the co-op thing was talked about as much as it was). Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to have been as large a migration of SotA players as they expected

I agree that there was some miscalculation here, especially in terms of offering lots of paid exclusive type stuff that MMOers fall hard for but single player gamers don't care about.

But on the other hand, you don't get to choose your friends in this business, and I'm still pretty sure associating with SotA did more good than harm.

I mean, it would have been great if the game had gotten huge shoutouts from inXile and Obsidian instead, but Paul Neurath doesn't go way back with those guys. He goes way back with Garriott and Chris Roberts. You work with what you have.

 

[Zep Zepo]

These guys should have talked to Swen about how to promote a KS project.

The Divinity: Original Sin Kickstarter didn't actually do incredibly well, you know. In 2015, in the middle of Kickstarter fatigue, the Shadowrun: Hong Kong Kickstarter bypassed it with a bare minimum of effort.

Fuck me, the SotA Kickstarter campaign that you're somehow still traumatized by two years later did better than D:OS did.

7. Their pitch is like the old game forum gag..."Hai Guise! I got an idea for a game, it's really cool! All I need is a coder, an artist, a sound guy and a web guy. I'm the idea man!"

8. Waste your money on a PR firm BEFORE you find your funding for the project is going to shit.

Look, you think I'm being a fanboy or that I'm bullshitting you, but really: This. Is. What. Kickstarter. Is.

You need to stop looking at it if it bothers you so much.

Divinity asked for $400,000, Got over a million. That's over 50% better.
UU:A asked for 600k, they barely make it

Divinity - 58 KS updates before end of funding.
UU:A - 23 more than half of them are shit.

Divinity: KS Comments (72,222)
UU:A: KS Comments (4,621)

Also, I was just pulling your chain about being a fanboy. Perhaps you see things I don't that make you excited. Nothing wrong with that.

Zep--

 

[Zep Zepo]

Zep--

Zep--

Zep--

Why the fuck do you keep doing that?

-

4) As for Hickman's involvement, whatever. I don't think it necessarily hurts and hopefully it improves the back-story and lore. This is the type of game that needs that sprinkled throughout the game since the "story" won't be crammed down your throat so having a competent writer helps (I don't know if he is as I've never read his stuff).

Opinions obviosuly differ on that but personally I have fond memories of his first six Dragonlance novels when I read them way back in ye days of olden. I don't know if I'd still enjoy them today but that I distinctly remember most of the characters and their different personalities right up to this day certainly speaks for the man. Can't say the same for much of the other stuff I've read, back then and in recent times. I would really like to see that stretchgoal met.

I refer you to list item #9.

Zep--

 

[mindx2]

Hickman's just writing a novel. There's no indication of him writing directly for the game, though I suppose the writing for the Dark Elves will make some indirect references to whatever he comes up with.

I imagine that his writing and the "round table discussion" he will have with the team will help shape a lot of the lore and back story.

 

[Zep Zepo]

Look, you think I'm being a fanboy or that I'm bullshitting you, but really: This. Is. What. Kickstarter. Is.

You saying throw a bunch of shit at the screen and see what sticks? This is not "What. Kickstarter. Is.".

Your goal is to deliver the project you pitch. Not throw up images of stupid trinkets that attract autist basement dwellers.

Zep--

 

[Darth Roxor]

qwinn--

 

[Roguey]

They met their goal. And I think it's a good thing they won't go too much over because they strike me as the types that would get sidetracked on frills versus core content if given endless cash.

They strike you that way do they? Not paying attention then.

The mod tools and co-op would only hurt the core content no matter what they say to the contrary. All devs are over-optimistic.

 

[Zep Zepo]

Another thing to chew on

Larian
Good comments from Project Creator: https://www.kickstarter.com/profile/larianstudios/comments
Creator Comments 1,195

Otherside
Get us mo money, spread the word, please guys, we're desperate here!: https://www.kickstarter.com/profile/othersidegames/comments
Creator Comments 233

Zep--

 

[Sceptic]

1 & 2) I'm no fan of SotA myself but from a marketing standpoint I understand why they wanted the association. They felt by linking the two worlds OtherSide would get many of those MMO pledgers to pledge for this one (also why I think the co-op thing was talked about as much as it was). Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to have been as large a migration of SotA players as they expected and all that focus on co-op may have turned others away. KS "old school" games do tend to sell better hyping that return to the single player experience. So again, I understand why they did what they did it just didn't work out as well as they hoped.

In other words, they made a massive marketing mistake that anyone who has been watching the way gamers spend their money could have seen coming 20 years ago. Trying to please both the grognards and the masses has never worked. I'd hope anyone with an inkling of how marketing works would know this by now. They chose to market to the SotA crow. Good for them, but this is one of the reasons I do not plan on giving my money to this.

Let's face it, this is what KS is: convincing people that you're making the game they want, and getting them to throw a ton of money at you. Any sign that they're not making the game I want, and are instead making a game that they are desperate to connect to an MMO that I have been mocking, and mocking its backers, for 2 years, isn't exactly a smart strategy. And clearly, judging by the funding level it has ATM, I'm not the only one. This is what KS should not be: a PR platform where some fraud gets you to pay for a game that they don't plan on making while they use the money to make something else. Like, oh, I don't know, SotA? the very game that they're trying to link this one to? Smart marketing indeed.

The Divinity: Original Sin Kickstarter didn't actually do incredibly well, you know. In 2015, in the middle of Kickstarter fatigue, the Shadowrun: Hong Kong Kickstarter bypassed it with a bare minimum of effort.

The DOS kickstarter was for a game that was already halfway done, and that clearly stated the extra money wasn't needed to actually make the game and would just go towards adding more features to it. Knowing that, the amount of money it made is simply incredible.

Fuck me, the SotA Kickstarter campaign that you're somehow still traumatized by two years later did better than D:OS did.

Yes, and then the backers have neatly split into one group of completely blind fanboys whose every post induce fits of laughter, and a group of bitter ex-fans many of whom went on to sell their pledges. Is this the kind of kickstarter we want to see more of? Do we want more Broken Ages made too?

 

[Athelas]

The DOS kickstarter was for a game that was already halfway done, and that clearly stated the extra money wasn't needed to actually make the game and would just go towards adding more features to it. Knowing that, the amount of money it made is simply incredible.

Shouldn't the fact that it had something to show - an actually functioning game that looked promising - result in much more funding? I'm sure Star Citizen didn't need 70 mill to be made either.

 

[Infinitron]

Again, you work with what you have. The surest route to Kickstarter success is to be "vetted" by another successful Kickstarter, that sends it backers to back your Kickstarter as well. I'm fairly certain that Underworld would have done even worse without the connections and shoutouts from SotA.

You can criticize them for going overboard with the exclusive item stuff, but if you're mad at them just for associating with SotA and Garriott, well, your standards are probably too high.

 

[Sceptic]

Shouldn't the fact that it had something to show - an actually functioning game that looked promising - result in much more funding?

I don't see why. With a partially completed product your audience knows exactly what you're trying to sell. With dreamy vague promises you can market to EVERYONE, and then have half of the audience realize they've been duped because you never planned on implementing most of what you promised anyway.

Hai guys! I'm making an awesome Ultima game! Give me lots of money!
Oh btw it's gonna be an MMO. But don't worry there's totally a single player experience in there!
What do you mean where's the single player? I can't tell you anything it because SPOILERS!

Hai guys! I'm making this awesome Wizardry clone that I have failed to complete for 15 years!
I'm making 2 Indiegogo campaigns! Pay me money and you will get this AWESOME GAME before June 2013 no matter what!
Oh hey May 2015 is close, I think it's time for a 3rd Indiegog campaign.

Hai guys! I'm making an old-school adventure game like Day of the Tentacle? Give me money so I can wipe my ass with it!
Who said it was like Day of the Tentacle? I had my 5 year old daughter pick the design. Oh btw we're only gonne release the first half.
You're playing it wrong.

Hai guys! We're making a new Underworld game! Isn't this awesome? Aren't you UW fans so excited?
We don't really have anything we can tell you about the game except that PHYSICS! Oh and did we mention we're associating with SotA, that game that also promised to appeal to old Ultima fans that ditched them? But don't worry we're totally not doing that!
????????????

Gee, I wonder what's the likely outcome for these question marks.

You can criticize them for going overboard with the exclusive item stuff, but if you're mad at them just for associating with SotA and Garriott, well, your standards are probably too high.

You're right, I have way too high standards. How dare I demand that a UW successor not associate itself with an MMO that's become notorious for making money through exclusive items and player housing. How dare I suspect they might try to go the same route as said MMO, especially since this so-called old-school crawler is targeting its marketing at precisely the same people who are still happy with SotA. How dare I even think I'd like to hear how the gameplay is similar to the UW of old rather than be told they're bringing in designers whose famous work is on Last of Us and Bioshock Infinite.

 

[Infinitron]

If your old friends from the gaming industry are running games that have earned 6 million and 70 million dollars respectively, then yeah, somebody asking you to snub them when trying to promote your sequel to a game from 1993 that nobody remembers probably has too high standards.

 

[Sceptic]

Well, I'm glad you just agreed with Bioware and Bethesda that dumbing down for the masses and the profits is the way to go and that good design has no place in games.

So, what's the point of KS in your opinion? Letting developers make exactly the same crap they did when forced by publishers, except now they get to keep all the money for themselves? That sounds like awesome incline for our hobby.

 

[Infinitron]

Yeah, that's totally what I said.

The only way that reply makes sense is if you've arrived at some very wrong conclusions about this game. Like, you think they're actually making an MMO or something. But I don't really feel like convincing you otherwise, so whatever.

I would however suggest taking a look at their official forums and seeing these guys' interactions with the fans. Whether they succeed or fail, this is so not a dispassionate cash grab.

 

[Athelas]

I don't see why. With a partially completed product your audience knows exactly what you're trying to sell. With dreamy vague promises you can market to EVERYONE, and then have half of the audience realize they've been duped because you never planned on implementing most of what you promised anyway.

If this was the case, a slamdunk game like Shadowrun: Hong Kong (which, like D:OS also needed just some funding to finish the game) wouldn't be outfunding the new Underworld game with ease. It's all about marketing (finding and enticing the right audience) and brand recognition - Larian didn't do so well compared to Obsidian and InXile because they didn't have the Black Isle/Fallout/Baldur's Gate/Planescape: Torment names behind them. Hong Kong did so well with comparatively little effort because HBS has built up some good will with the previous two Shadowrun games (and they have the Shadowrun franchise). Underworld isn't doing so well because it seems to have trouble finding the right niche (and because Underworld isn't really as well-known as the other 'immersive sim' games like Thief and Deus Ex).

 

[Darkzone]

Garriott has fucked this over, by making this a mmo and with his dlc shop But Paul Neurath is not Garriott, and therefore he deserves a chance.

Hai guys! I'm making an awesome Ultima game! Give me lots of money!
Oh btw it's gonna be an MMO. But don't worry there's totally a single player experience in there!
What do you mean where's the single player? I can't tell you anything it because SPOILERS!

Hai guys! We're making a new Underworld game! Isn't this awesome? Aren't you UW fans so excited?
We don't really have anything we can tell you about the game except that PHYSICS! Oh and did we mention we're associating with SotA, that game that also promised to appeal to old Ultima fans that ditched them? But don't worry we're totally not doing that!

Garriott has fucked this over, by making this a mmo and with his dlc shop But Paul Neurath is not Garriott, and therefore he deserves a chance.

You can criticize them for going overboard with the exclusive item stuff, but if you're mad at them just for associating with SotA and Garriott, well, your standards are probably too high.

You're right, I have way too high standards. How dare I demand that a UW successor not associate itself with an MMO that's become notorious for making money through exclusive items and player housing. How dare I suspect they might try to go the same route as said MMO, especially since this so-called old-school crawler is targeting its marketing at precisely the same people who are still happy with SotA. How dare I even think I'd like to hear how the gameplay is similar to the UW of old rather than be told they're bringing in designers whose famous work is on Last of Us and Bioshock Infinite.

Yes the cooperation with SotA and Garriott is also my problem with UA, else i would invest $200 and not $20, and it seems that Garriott has more shares in this than meets the eye. But i do not go overboard, because of Garriott (the false prophet) casts it's shadow on UA.

 

[Melan]

Hickman's just writing a novel. There's no indication of him writing directly for the game, though I suppose the writing for the Dark Elves will make some indirect references to whatever he comes up with.

I imagine that his writing and the "round table discussion" he will have with the team will help shape a lot of the lore and back story.

Hopefully not too much. Hickman is a bad novellist, even by game fiction standards, and I knew that in the back of my brain when I was reading the Dragonlance trilogy as a kid.

However, he used to be a really creative dungeon designer before he got into writing novels. Some of his adventures had problems due to trying to be literature instead of games, but on the encounter level, they were solid and evocative:

• The Moebius Tower, a desert outpost trapped in temporal stasis, everything frozen in a single second, with the top of the tower connecting to the bottom in an infinite loop.
• The Skysea, a desert plain of flat glass, created by some ancient cataclysm and sailed by lightweight ships outfitted with diamond skates.
• An underground garden beneath a great pyramid, lit by cleverly placed mirrors, blooming with vegetation and palm trees laden with explosive fruits, surrounded by reverse-gravity traps.
• Even in Dragonlance, you can remember the ruined city of Xak-Tsaroth, swallowed by the earth and crisscrossed by waterfalls, or the battle with the giant slug under one of the other fortresses... that was pretty good.

If Otherside can bring this side of him to the table, it wouldn't be half bad.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Actually I don't believe VR has been a goal , they just asked about it on the forum and have mentioned it a few times.

 

[Bubbles]

VR is a goal for any immersive video game.

 

[tuluse]

These guys are clearly not market wizards. That's for sure. Still they got 600k and probably 800ish when all is said and done. That plus their other money, hopefully they can make a great game.

 

[Zep Zepo]

Actually I don't believe VR has been a goal , they just asked about it on the forum and have mentioned it a few times.

I'm pretty sure it was in the first stretch goal image.

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[Metro]

VR is a goal for any immersive video game.

Immersed in shit, maybe.

Zep--

 

[Melan]

Actually I don't believe VR has been a goal , they just asked about it on the forum and have mentioned it a few times.

It was a high-level goal in their original pitch.

 

[zero29]

Actually I don't believe VR has been a goal , they just asked about it on the forum and have mentioned it a few times.

I'm pretty sure it was in the first stretch goal image.

Zep--

you mean this one?