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Preview RPG Codex Re-Preview: Legends of Eisenwald

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
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The idea of a re-preview is silly, though. I was hoping the AoD one was just an incident, but apparently this is becoming a thing. Stop this madness, I say. While we still can.
The way I see it (not just as a developer benefiting from the extra exposure but as a gamer and long standing member of this community), when a game takes a long time to make and evolves over the years, another preview (updating the readers on the progress) makes a lot of sense, especially when it comes from a different reviewer (aka a different perspective).
 

MicoSelva

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The issue does not come from game taking too long to make (I get that good things take time), but from it being revealed too early in its development. If something needs a re-preview like this, it has been released to the public too soon in the first place.

This is from a gamer's perspective, because obviously for a developer it is more beneficial to start getting revenue and exposure as early as possible - nothing wrong with that too.

EDIT:
To clarify, I mean releasing a 'playable build' not announcing the game or starting a KS campaign.
 

Aterdux Entertainment

Aterdux Entertainment
Developer
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553
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Minsk, Belarus
The issue does not come from game taking too long to make (I get that good things take time), but from it being revealed too early in its development. If something needs a re-preview like this, it has been released to the public too soon in the first place.
When we revealed it, we thought we were close to finishing it. Oh boy, how wrong we were but that's another story. Now, we have finished the content, doing the remaining bug fixes and polishing along with sound desing and SFX and so, this preview is much closer to the final game.
 

Aterdux Entertainment

Aterdux Entertainment
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I found a video that has a really good example about combat. It's unfortunately in Russian but since it's the combat, maybe you guys can understand things by looking at what the player is trying to do. Here is a link to an epic battle http://youtu.be/CDaegN8Mmyg?t=2h29m32s that happened in a stream about a month ago. The same battle is replayed 4 times (around 13min of gameplay) and only 4th time the player manages to beat the other army. He tried few things and found a solution. That IMO shows really well tactical variety in the game.

A short explanation: the enemy dual wielder had a poisoned weapon. Without it, the battle could have been won the first time since the knight would have been completely protected from the archers but the poisoned amulet made it a hard and nice battle.
 

worldsmith

Savant
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Messages
107
Merchants will go from village to village as if engaged in trade.
Are you sure they are not engaged in trade? Maybe if you kill them all some goods will stop being available in some places?

Soldiers will move up and down roads from one fortification to the next, while staying inside the territory of their liege lord, giving the appearance that they are on patrol.
How do you know they are aren't actually on patrol? (Or is this just some odd use of language? Like saying "you chained a bunch of words together, giving the appearance that you wrote a re-preview".)

All of your characters will level up with enough experience, but only the player character can choose his or her own skills.
How do you know the NPCs aren't choosing their own skills? (To say they are or are not would seem to be splitting hairs about the meaning of the internal structure of the game's program.)
And do you really mean that the PC chooses their own skills? Or do you mean that the player chooses the PC's skills?

Some of these skills can directly help on the battlefield, while others are useful in other ways, such as reducing daily expenditures or enabling troops to fight better.
So enabling troops to fight better does not directly help on the battlefield?

The NPCs, however, lack this range of options and must simply choose a professional path with predefined skills.
So the NPCs do choose their professional path, but do not choose their skills? Or maybe you meant the player chooses the NPCs professional path? (But then, if the player is making choices for them they're not really NPCs. More like "secondary PCs" or "units".)

No amount of daily revenue will truly be able to feed your army's increasing appetite.
This statement is a bit misleading/confusing as it (and its immediate context) is worded as if other sources of funds don't exist in the game.

Alexander Dergay said:
enemies have their own tasks, they grow in experience
I'm curious about that. Do they just get automatic XP over time, or are they getting XP by the same set of rules as the PC does? (I'm guessing it's the former - or essentially the former. The latter would likely have a tendency of cleaning out the game world. Though I'm all for it working as the latter - it's just harder to create a game world where that can work out as desired. Unless, I guess, if those "tasks" give them XP, and those tasks aren't available to the PC due to "story reasons".)

Alexander Dergay said:
I personally think scaling the enemies is almost cheating
Playing by a different set of rules for no game-world reason is de facto cheating. (So is NPCs getting XP by some rule that doesn't apply to the PC, "just because".) Of course, NPCs/AI cheating is basically a staple of many games (and many of them would be worse off without it), so just because it's cheating doesn't automatically mean it's net/net bad. Scaling enemies isn't bad because it's cheating, it's bad because it ruins the gameplay (by negating character progression - not that character progression is strictly necessary, but sort of having it but not really because it is negated is just messed up).

There is a scenario in the game right now called Cursed Castle - this is more sandbox, little story, just a few side quests and rumors and lots of combat and castles to conquer.
I like that time matters in the game, and this makes it sound like this game will have replay value more like a strategy game than a typical RPG (which is a good thing in my opinion). Now we just need a DRM-free release and a proper (finished game) review. (And you should have the DRM-free version available for direct purchase if feasible. Ever since GOG's EULA was changed to allow GOG to modify the license terms that apply to you to whatever they {or whoever buys them out} wants, even long after you've made your purchase and downloaded your game, I am now buying direct from devs whenever I can.)
 
Weasel
Joined
Dec 14, 2012
Messages
1,865,661
splitting hairs

After some of your other points this is p. funny.

Soldiers will move up and down roads from one fortification to the next, while staying inside the territory of their liege lord, giving the appearance that they are on patrol.
How do you know they are aren't actually on patrol? (Or is this just some odd use of language? Like saying "you chained a bunch of words together, giving the appearance that you wrote a re-preview".)

Seriously, resorting to this level of nitpicking?

:nocountryforshitposters:

It's not as if we're talking about real soldiers here, the point he was making was clear to everyone.
 
Last edited:

Aterdux Entertainment

Aterdux Entertainment
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I'm curious about that. Do they just get automatic XP over time, or are they getting XP by the same set of rules as the PC does? (I'm guessing it's the former - or essentially the former. The latter would likely have a tendency of cleaning out the game world. Though I'm all for it working as the latter - it's just harder to create a game world where that can work out as desired. Unless, I guess, if those "tasks" give them XP, and those tasks aren't available to the PC due to "story reasons".)
If AI armies are in castles, they get XP over time just like a player's troops if they are left in a castle or a tower. Otherwise they get XP only in combat.

Playing by a different set of rules for no game-world reason is de facto cheating. (So is NPCs getting XP by some rule that doesn't apply to the PC, "just because".) Of course, NPCs/AI cheating is basically a staple of many games (and many of them would be worse off without it), so just because it's cheating doesn't automatically mean it's net/net bad. Scaling enemies isn't bad because it's cheating, it's bad because it ruins the gameplay (by negating character progression - not that character progression is strictly necessary, but sort of having it but not really because it is negated is just messed up).
Rules are the same, and actually we are working giving AI a bit more because player now has a bit of an advantage.

I like that time matters in the game, and this makes it sound like this game will have replay value more like a strategy game than a typical RPG (which is a good thing in my opinion). Now we just need a DRM-free release and a proper (finished game) review. (And you should have the DRM-free version available for direct purchase if feasible. Ever since GOG's EULA was changed to allow GOG to modify the license terms that apply to you to whatever they {or whoever buys them out} wants, even long after you've made your purchase and downloaded your game, I am now buying direct from devs whenever I can.)
DRM-free version will be there. If you don't like GOG, it will be possible to get it off Humble via our widget there.
 

worldsmith

Savant
Joined
Feb 1, 2015
Messages
107
Seriously, resorting to this level of nitpicking?
How is that nitpicking in any way? I asked a question: "How do you know they are aren't actually on patrol?" I expect the answer to be something related to game mechanics.

For example, if I kite a common enemy past a soldier, will the soldier attack it? If the soldier only has "the appearance that they are on patrol", then the soldier will just let that enemy go right by. If, on the other hand, they actually do attack enemies that they spot, that's an entirely different behavior, indicative of a soldier that is actually (or at least as "actually" as things get in today's game worlds) on patrol.

Perhaps for some people such an attack response would not be enough for the patrols to be more than just "appearance". Maybe they would only consider the patrols to be "true patrols" if there was a "real threat" (however they wish to define that) to patrol against.

the point he was making was clear to everyone
And what point was that? How does what he said have the slightest bit of actual meaning if it doesn't boil down to game mechanics (or some specified lack thereof)? He gave no indication of what mechanic he felt was missing that would make the soldier patrols more than just "the appearance" of such.
 

Aterdux Entertainment

Aterdux Entertainment
Developer
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Messages
553
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Minsk, Belarus
How is that nitpicking in any way? I asked a question: "How do you know they are aren't actually on patrol?" I expect the answer to be something related to game mechanics.
Actually, they do patrol. Or whatever you call it when they do when they walk their fixed paths around their area of control. They will attack enemies such as bandits or fugitive peasants and will take back villages and other posessions that might have been taken away by their enemies.
 

Gicusan

Educated
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Mar 31, 2013
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Tetelia
So, when is this thing out? You got me curious for a long time already but I am keeping my money until you finally get it launched.
 

Aterdux Entertainment

Aterdux Entertainment
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So, when is this thing out? You got me curious for a long time already but I am keeping my money until you finally get it launched.
A few months and the game is out. Right now we are trying to find out when is the Steam Summer Sale as it is obviously stupid to release during the sale. I want to finalize the entire game content (texts in all languages) and game by the end of May since we will have a retail version in Germany and possibly in Russia.
 

MicoSelva

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A few months and the game is out. Right now we are trying to find out when is the Steam Summer Sale as it is obviously stupid to release during the sale. I want to finalize the entire game content (texts in all languages) and game by the end of May since we will have a retail version in Germany and possibly in Russia.
Ask Swen Vincke if it was stupid to release Original Sin during Summer Sale. Or just watch his GDC speech. ;)
 
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A few months and the game is out. Right now we are trying to find out when is the Steam Summer Sale as it is obviously stupid to release during the sale. I want to finalize the entire game content (texts in all languages) and game by the end of May since we will have a retail version in Germany and possibly in Russia.
Ask Swen Vincke if it was stupid to release Original Sin during Summer Sale. Or just watch his GDC speech. ;)
Actually, didn't he put it out right after the Summer Sale?
 

Alienman

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I think it was during the sale, I was waiting for a 33% if I remember correctly
 
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we will have a retail version in Germany and possibly in Russia.
While I have kinda lost hope regarding this after Divinity:OS, Wasteland 2, Expeditions and countless other disappointments:

Will the retail release be DRM-free? I'm getting rather sick of every game coming out as a boxed Steam key (seriously, what's the point?) and haven't bought a physical release in what seems like ages for that very reason.

EDIT: Goddamit, Bubbles!
 
Self-Ejected

Bubbles

I'm forever blowing
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Blackguards 2 and Broken Age both had DRM-free physical releases this year.
 

vonAchdorf

Arcane
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Sep 20, 2014
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we will have a retail version in Germany and possibly in Russia.
While I have kinda lost hope regarding this after Divinity:OS, Wasteland 2, Expeditions and countless other disappointments:

Will the retail release be DRM-free? I'm getting rather sick of every game coming out as a boxed Steam key (seriously, what's the point?) and haven't bought a physical release in what seems like ages for that very reason.

D:OS had a Steam key release for the box because the game wasn't done yet when the CDs were manufactured and required the Day 1 patch. Basically releasing a box with a Steam key gave Larian another month of development time.
 

Aterdux Entertainment

Aterdux Entertainment
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Minsk, Belarus
Ask Swen Vincke if it was stupid to release Original Sin during Summer Sale. Or just watch his GDC speech. ;)
D:OS was release June 30th, it was the first day right after the sale.

Will the retail release be DRM-free? I'm getting rather sick of every game coming out as a boxed Steam key (seriously, what's the point?) and haven't bought a physical release in what seems like ages for that very reason.
It depends on the publisher but we will provide them DRM-free version as well as Steam-connected version.
 

MicoSelva

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Ask Swen Vincke if it was stupid to release Original Sin during Summer Sale. Or just watch his GDC speech. ;)
D:OS was release June 30th, it was the first day right after the sale.
Technically, it was the last day of the sale, but the point is, Swen Vincke mentioned it was good for exposure to appear on the front page during the sale, because more people visit Steam in that time.
 

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