Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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Codex Interview RPG Codex Interview: Julian Gollop on Phoenix Point

Discussion in 'RPG News & Content' started by Infinitron, May 5, 2017.

  1. ciox Educated

    ciox
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    Game looks interesting I guess, but I was always a biggest fan of the original Laser Squad, it didn't have the world map strategy, but it had the most simulation depth, too bad that franchise was buried with that unimpressive email multiplayer game.
     
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  2. Prime Junta Arcane

    Prime Junta
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    Interesting interview. Piqued my curiosity enough to finally read the figstarter. Pledged.
     
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  3. oasis789 Arcane

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    sser if you get to follow up I'd like to hear more about the simulation aspects like economy. What do factions do, how do they interact with the world and each other, that sort of thing.
     
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  4. Zanzoken Savant

    Zanzoken
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    I didn't know about this game but I hope it gets made. I think Gollop is one of the best designers ever and I believe he can modernize the X-Com formula in a satisfying way.

    Also, theoretical question --

    I know one of the main criticisms of TUs is that it slows the game down, since the optimal strategy is to crawl across the map one step at a time. Gollop echoes this criticism in the interview.

    But isn't this really a product of Fog of War? The reason you inch across the map is so you don't jump a bunch of aliens at the end of your turn. Not knowing where the bad guys are is why you creep and preserve actions.

    2AP didn't change this. The best way to play XCOM is still to take it slow, trigger one pod at a time, then destroy it before the baddies even have a chance to respond. That's why they added time constraints, so you would have move fast and take more risks.

    Thoughts?
     
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  5. oasis789 Arcane

    oasis789
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    "TUs slowing the game down" well 2AP can make things even worse. It's like these people have never watched Beaglerush 1-step conga-line end-turn across a map before.
     
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  6. Israfael Arcane

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    I think it's just rationalization - game systems should not affect the pace of the game, it all depends what the developers want it to be. It's easier to blame the system than yourself (as wise Ghostcrawler once said, players tend to quit rather than improve themselves when faced with a surmountable, but arduous problem). Also, tension and slow pace was always a part of 'aliens did it' thrillers and tv shows, so it never bothered me personally. Well, and Firaxis probably aimed at mobile/tablets since day 1, so they made the game as simple as possible computation-wise so it will run on basically any ARM crap there is, so they pushed that '2 phase is fun, TU is slow and boring' shtick hard (there's even shills on 2k forums that shat on the original daily if anyone dared to voice any criticism towards the new game)
     
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  7. HansDampf Learned

    HansDampf
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    That timer feels like a gamey crutch. Turn-based combat is supposed to be slow. Why fight it? TUs are just more interesting. More decisions to make.
     
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  8. sser Arcane

    sser
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    That's pretty much correct. TU's don't just represent base movement, though, TU's represent crouching, crawling, turning, etc. Small little increments that significantly change how you play. The way a squad enters a room in X-Com, Jagged Alliance, Silent Storm, etc., is so vastly different from recent turn-based titles that it's like comparing Rainbow Six to Doom.
     
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  9. set Erudite

    set
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    "JA2 hasn't influenced my design" <-- decline

    I say this not because, "JA2 is an amazing game you must emulate to make a good squad based strategy game" or anything, I say it because, "JA2 is fucking amazing and also horribly flawed".

    The flaws of JA2 can make it unplayable at times. Like, as people are saying, "crawling across the map for ages" is a legit criticism of JA2. I am paralyzed with fear on some maps in that game, making the gameplay painfully slow because I can't afford to be ambushed (people talk about how Dark Souls makes them play the game cautiously? Try inching on hands and knees in fear of landmines). Also, the turn-based nature of JA2 makes it so that - on some maps - it takes AGES for my opponents to finish their turns. On some maps, where enemies are as numerous as rats, it takes me multiple sessions of play to finish an encounter. It's a huge investment to play JA2 for me, especially these days.

    But it also gets SO much right, it's ridiculous.

    The flaws and strengths of the game should inform anybody with half a game design brain how to make things better, while still keeping what made JA2 a classic. Not a good sign if you have so little to say about a game like that.
     
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  10. HansDampf Learned

    HansDampf
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    A 'fast forward' button would have been nice.
     
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  11. puppyonastik Liturgist

    puppyonastik
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    Thanks sser for taking the time to do this interview. :salute:
     
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  12. zeitgeist Augur

    zeitgeist
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    Be honest, would you?

    If your entire game development career in the last two decades consisted of little more than recycling your old game concepts (and barely even improving them), and you knew in your heart of hearts that the pinnacle of the genre is something you will never be able to replicate, much less surpass, wouldn't you also do your best to ignore its existence? In private because it frustrates you to no end, and in public because people just might start looking into it if you don't just casually brush it aside.

    It's much better to pretend nothing existed before the current decade. It's not like anyone important remembers or cares.
     
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  13. belowmecoldhands Learned

    belowmecoldhands
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    You know the answer. Stop playing dumb. The game would bomb.

    So why then would it bomb? I'm tempted to say because the audience for nuXCOM isn't mentally disordered. The actual answer is because game designers have spent the past 25 years figuring how why those games aren't popular anymore. You can disagree with their conclusions, but it's all backed up with some very solid game design theory.

    The comment about needing to give players a clue about where a bullet might go if it misses is telling. He says "We haven't figured out a way to represent to the player the potential outcome of such attacks yet." That's very much part of the new school. Now, JA2 added more feedback AFTER release in patches. For example, to see cover for friend/foe. However, many incidental things slipped in. This happened in many old games, leading to some unpredictability. Many of those outcomes could be frustrating. The new school of design is trying to reduce that frustration wherever it occurs. One possible negative affect is the games become too conservative, but I think most gamers are happy with it being that way.
     
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  14. Wonderdog Neckbeard Shitlord's alt

    Wonderdog
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    Silent Storm was made not that long ago and it has the same or more complexity. And Original x-com is actually a pretty simple system anyway.

    The real problem with this logic is that the people who wouldn't play something like the original x-com remade faithfully, are also not going to play any 2-action system either. Tactical gaming is a niche, and you will never get a million sales in it, but to get the most sales possible you have to actually serve that niche.
     
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  15. Make America Great Again The Brazilian Slaughter Arcane

    The Brazilian Slaughter
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    I think PirateZ mod for OpenX-COM did pretty well:

    - Use of sprint (less TU per step, uses more stamina) to bumrush enemies. A fast gal with high TUs and stamina can bumrush enemies and favor rush tactics, while keeping it resource-dependant.

    - Gals lose morale with time, so you have to keep killing to keep up. Can lead to problems if you're stunning rather than killing.

    I'm a slow-paced player, it made me change my playstyle in order to keep my team alive and winning.

    Also X-COM has a punishment in form of post turn20 enemies knowing your positions all the time. Especially frightening if they have blaster bombs.



    Enviado de meu SM-G3502T usando Tapatalk
     
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