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Codex Interview RPG Codex Interview: Chris Avellone on Pillars Cut Content, Game Development Hierarchies and More

Discussion in 'RPG News & Content' started by Infinitron, Apr 30, 2018.

  1. Goral Arcane Patron The Real Fanboy

    Goral
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    Wow, what a weasel this Fenstermaker is, typical, dishonest PR response made by someone afraid that he might be hit by a ricochet.

    Right.

    Wow, talk about damage control.

    Of course not!

    First he says that one can only talk about his own experience and in the next sentence he declares that whatever Obsidian management did had good intentions behind it :D :D :D. A mind reader indeed.

    Seeing his dishonest way of speaking I find it very hard to believe what he has to say.
     
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  2. Carnarium Novice

    Carnarium
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    Cool, now do a Sawyer codex interview. That's what people here really want to read.
     
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  3. a bear named spigot Arcane

    a bear named spigot
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    we have death rally avatars? that's sick.
     
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  4. Prime Junta Arcane

    Prime Junta
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    When things are left unsaid, they tend to bubble up in unfortunate ways. Chris needs to deal with his butthurt somehow or this will keep going forever. Or just have it out and stage a cage match to get it over with, that could work too.

    I do find it significant that while he's talked a quite a lot of shit about Obsidian, to my knowledge nobody from that side has done it about him... until now, anyway, if that extremely mild, polite, and almost apologetic message from Eric even counts.
     
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  5. Junmarko Ravioli di canguro Patron

    Junmarko
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Mr.YES! - How are you feeling? :lol:
     
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  6. Roguey Arcane Sawyerite Sawyerist Sawyer's Bride No Fun Allowed

    Roguey
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    Feargus did indirectly with
    Of course "t. guy who tried to screw Chris out of the money he already owed him by threatening to withhold it unless he signed a NDA"

    Infinitron https://twitter.com/ChrisAvellone/status/930266474588938241
    Additionally
    https://twitter.com/legalinspire/status/930334967544115200
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2018
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  7. Prime Junta Arcane

    Prime Junta
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    You need some pretty high-magnification goggles to read between those lines, Roguey good zir.
     
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  8. Stainless Veteran Arcane

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    For me it's the question of merit and character. Do I believe a very nice guy, who gave me the most beloved game of my life, and who is (or at least was) a masterful writer? The guy, who not only made PST, but also had a large role in making Fallout 2, made KOTOR 2? The guy who even talks to us here, in our hive of scum and villainy? The guy who apparently wasn't into office politics and it cost him his place in a company, of which he was co-founder?

    Or should I believe a guy who made a couple of passable companions and areas, and whose credits are basically this:
    Oh, what a hard choice... not.
    :mca::love:
     
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  9. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    I don't get it, what outrageous claim are you being asked to believe here?

    Hasn't it always been pretty obvious that something like this is what happened? I don't see that anything that Chris has said contradicts it.
     
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  10. Stainless Veteran Arcane

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    Infinitron, do you really suggest that there's no contradictions in these quotes and overall tone?
     
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  11. serch Magister Patron

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    Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Codex USB, 2014 Divinity: Original Sin 2
    But that of JC in general or MCA's in Codex particular. This is an uphill battle if I ever saw one.
     
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  12. Prime Junta Arcane

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    The bare facts of the matter are common knowledge. Chris exceeded his word count for GM/Durance, Eric and Josh cut it, butthurt ensued. The why and the wherefore of this unfortunate series of events is a different matter. It's interesting to hear all these different perspectives on it though.

    ---> tangent

    I would really love to see this feud resolved. Chris is the only genuine auteur in the genre. If computer games ever become a serious art form with lasting appeal, he'll be remembered like Murnau or Fritz Lang or Eisenstein are remembered for cinema. He's wasting a tremendous amount of energy on this stuff as well as doing penny-ante tinkering in way too many unambitious little projects.

    And Obsidian... Obsidian is a flawed company with flawed people none of whom are genuine visionaries, but they're trying to do something that's at least a little tiny bit more ambitious than awesome-button appealing to the lowest common denominator. It really is a missed opportunity of historic proportions that Obsidian did not turn into a vehicle for Chris's genius, but instead clipped his wings and a left him in the cold.
     
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  13. TT1 Savant Patron

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    A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    I can understand Eric response to MCA and I can also understand Chris frustrations. I work on IT projects since 2005 and looks like its the same with game development: a lot of developers working with deadlines and budjets, and A LOT of bad communications. This happens all the time.

    I I'll repeat myself here:

    Of course, its an interview, so we just have MCA point of view, but I dont know if its good to anyone to have this floating around for so long.
     
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  14. Sensuki Arcane Cuck

    Sensuki
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    Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
    Its strongly implied that he can't due to an NDA that he had to sign to get 'his share' back. I suppose that is one of the reasons why you get little tidbits here and there.
     
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  15. Otterz Literate

    Otterz
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    Official Obsidian Discord? Heh, hardly. That screenshot's been taken from the Pillars of Eternity FAN Discord, my dudes. Don't lose your sleep over it.
     
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  16. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    I guess I agree that there's a contradiction in tone, but that's not so interesting to me. One man says "interference", the other says "professional and warranted by the circumstance", whatever.

    I'm interested in why Durance and Grieving Mother grew to the size that they had to be cut in the first place, and to what degree they could have been salvaged. Chris, I'm sorry, is mostly tip-toeing around that by focusing on all the process issues surrounding how he was informed that they had to be cut. It's an inside baseball spat that doesn't tell us who was ultimately responsible for screwing them up by turning them into text wall dispensers.

    The closest he comes to saying something constructive in that regard is here:

    We'll probably never have enough information to make the call about whether Durance and GM could have been implemented in a better way, but it'd help if people focused on the right things.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2018
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  17. Junmarko Ravioli di canguro Patron

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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Junta wants to start a new thread by the looks anyway. Obsidian is stealing hype from the Reds.

    :lol:
     
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  18. Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss Erudite Patron

    Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy
    Eric Fenstermaker,

    when you say or insinuate certain things you can't take them back. People like to believe that they can, using a simple apology or a formal statement, but the damage is done and the other part knows what you did. In fact, everyone who is paying attention knows that too. The same thing applies when you and your pals at Obsidian decide to treat one of the best designers and writers in genre as a junior with not experience. I’m sure that you had a smirk on your face when you got to the lead instead of him and you gutted his characters with poorly made excuses. You probably enjoyed acting like a gang in the schoolyard when he had to work from home, all the talking behind his back and all that. Finally you could put that “arrogant prima dona on his place”, right? Because there was “the real world with none of that undeserved ass-kissing he received from the game journalists, other developers and players”. Here you and you buddies call all the shots, right? “He wants to be a kickstarter goal? Fine! But here well are the ones still in charge”. I can understand that, even if you can be naive enough to delude yourself in thinking that your motivations were pure instead of being motivated by the usual low instincts.

    I’m sure that Avellone had a different perspective since you all acted like this when he was in one of the most vulnerable moments in his life, with his mother having cancer and all. I’m also sure that the players who were watching all the development updates and wanted to see his work shining in his own goddam studio were bothered by it. It doesn’t feel right. Here we have the best cRPG writer in the industry and yet he can’t be the lead in his own studio? That’s the most preposterous thing I ever heard. Do you really thought that you could all throw Avellone under the bus and no one, including him, would say anything? He must have been acted really passive all this time so that you could feel so full of yourselves. Know this. Your public statements betray your motives, because you keep talking as if Avellone was just another guy that could have his content removed. He is not, he is much better than you and your lot. You don’t get to call the shots, buddy. You are not as half as good as Chris.
     
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  19. Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss Erudite Patron

    Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss
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    yeah, and how about this:

    What the fuck is that?
     
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  20. Big Wrangle Educated

    Big Wrangle
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    It would be interesting too see what would Avellone say about all this in some sort of Obsidian post-mortem if/when it goes bankrupt.
     
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  21. TheSentinel Cipher

    TheSentinel
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    best anime arc
     
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  22. Bohrain Learned

    Bohrain
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    I believe this calls for a shirtless fistfight between Fenstermaker and Avellone.
     
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  23. Sensuki Arcane Cuck

    Sensuki
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    Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
    I'm going to make an educated guess, and we'll see what comes back.

    It is clear that one or more Obsidian devs have badmouthed Chris to you in confidence, and there have been a few times where it seems you are relaying their accusations. One of those I recall was something about the reason for communication breakdown due to internal grudges/mistrust.

    In Eric's PM/email he also admitted he gave Chris little oversight.

    Throughout the entire development there were hints in interviews, videos etc that there was a rift between Chris and (some of) the others. It seems like there may have been some passive aggressive animosity that caused a communication rift between them. On the one hand you have Chris' work which more closely resembles what we (the informed 'fans') expected from the Pillars companions, based on the Kickstarter pitch and earlier media. Chris wrote the companion guidelines for the project from memory and his design fits what he was telling us in his earlier narrative updates. You then have the rest of them which feel far more 'produced' and formulaic, more closely resembling Baldur's Gate style companions.

    From what I recall, Chris may have started working on his companions earlier in development than everyone else, and his role was basically reduced to 'write these two companions' down from a bit more. The other narrative designers all had other jobs to do such as area design and writing for quests etc, and it appears Chris did not, despite having a lot of OTHER things to do. Chris is also the most experienced Narrative Designer there, and seems to be more productive at producing (quality) content.

    I don't think it's too difficult to image how Chris ended up coming up with a lot more words than everyone else, and a different tone to everyone else, if he wasn't talking to the others very much and they also weren't talking to him and the manager(s) on the project weren't managing him properly.
     
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  24. Prime Junta Arcane

    Prime Junta
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    It'll be a while before the comrades in Tallinn and London release their masterpiece. I doubt it'd be possible to maintain this level of hype about it that long, so no. Let's all get excited about Deadfire and get it over with so we can charge our hype batteries for when we really need them. :salute:
     
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  25. Junmarko Ravioli di canguro Patron

    Junmarko
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    I don't believe you. The sarcasm in that post was painful comrade...

    :lol:

    (sorry I forget you're Estonian too)
     
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