RPG Codex Interview: Chris Avellone on Pillars Cut Content, Game Development Hierarchies and More

[Infinitron]

I cannot help you with this topic, then. If it's not a direct call-out to a place I've worked for, well, I genuinely don't know the conditions.

Also, if Obsidian doesn't do anything bad that would merit a union, why are we discussing this and why does Josh think Obsidian needs a union? (I haven't watched the talk.) Or does Josh mean Midway or something? I honestly have no idea if Midway is even still breathing.

I don't really want to waste time debating this with you, but if you asked if I thought we should look into unions, I would say that, yes, more facts are good in situations like these, and researching what unions might bring to the table is worthwhile - I like facts and data and information, but also respect that they may cause incredible problems if enacted without some thought.

That said, I know many companies that already fight against having Writer's Guild union mandates in their contracts, which is partly the reason I didn't accept a WGA membership - mostly because it didn't help writing for games and game companies didn't like it.

It seemed to me to be a "general opinion piece" sort of talk not related to any one studio. I wouldn't call it data-driven exactly (there isn't much data out there after all) but he did bring up arguments both for and against.

You can watch it here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/252031193?t=06h06m21s

 

[Chris Avellone]

It seemed to me to be a "general opinion piece" sort of talk not related to any one studio. I wouldn't call it data-driven exactly (there isn't much data out there after all) but he did bring up arguments both for and against.

You can watch it here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/252031193?t=06h06m21s

So... was it based on observations from a bunch of studios? I'm sorry, you brought this up, and I don't have time or the inclination to watch the presentation for a reason you brought up: It's up to you to fully, completely, explain your position and your stance. You may begin, and omit anything from your response that isn't facts - like no "seem" or "I think" or "I believe" or worse, "I feel/I felt." If you report the news, then I need you to embrace what that means and act like a journalist would, not an editor, and condense the facts so I may respond to what you've laid out properly.

If you can't do that, then I have nothing more to say.

 

[Grauken]

Anybody ever told you, you're evil?

 

[Infinitron]

It seemed to me to be a "general opinion piece" sort of talk not related to any one studio. I wouldn't call it data-driven exactly (there isn't much data out there after all) but he did bring up arguments both for and against.

You can watch it here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/252031193?t=06h06m21s

So... was it based on observations from a bunch of studios? I'm sorry, you brought this up, and I don't have time or the inclination to watch the presentation for a reason you brought up: It's up to you to fully, completely, explain your position and your stance. You may begin, and omit anything from your response that isn't facts - like no "seem" or "I think" or "I believe" or worse, "I feel/I felt." If you report the news, then I need you to embrace what that means and act like a journalist would, not an editor, and condense the facts so I may respond to what you've laid out properly.

If you can't do that, then I have nothing more to say.

I don't really have a stance, this began with me replying to your speculation about whether Josh's talk might indicate that Obsidian has a crunch time problem.

 

[Blaine]

You may begin, and omit anything from your response that isn't facts - like no "seem" or "I think" or "I believe" or worse, "I feel/I felt."

Oy vey, such antisemitism in this thread! Really puts the schlemiel in my schlimazel!

 

[Chris Avellone]

I don't really have a stance, this began with me replying to your speculation about whether Josh's talk might indicate that Obsidian has a crunch time problem.

All right, then if you have no answer, I genuinely no longer care.

If Obsidian didn't mandate crunch (which was the case before I departed except for very, very rare instances that were the exception rather than the rule), then that I would be inclined to believe, and don't give two shits about speculation without facts. Thanks.

 

[Blaine]

You really know how to put the screws to the news Jew.

 

[Chris Avellone]

Oy vey, such antisemitism in this thread! Really puts the schlemiel in my schlimazel!

You are incorrect. I am speaking to Infinitron as I would a journalist who hadn't checked their sources, gotten facts, and could marshal a response.

Please, don't make it a religious thing vs. a chosen-career thing, that's just off the rails and inappropriate.

EDIT: Never mind, after the last response, I don't care about your responses anymore.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

This is why we can’t have nice things.

 

[Blaine]

I guess nobody told Chris that "news Jew" is one of Infinitron's actual titles that he chose for himself.

I'm just here for the laughs, not to be your pal. It's indeed best to disregard all of my posts and respond to serious inquiries only.

 

[Prime Junta]

Infinitron my dude, you're spinning again. People do not start making fiery pro-union speeches if they're happy corporate drones.*

Chris Avellone Blaine is a Nazi larper. Relate to him accordingly. Just FYI

*N.b., I did those before I even was gainfully employed. I just never stopped.

 

[Blaine]

Chris Avellone Blaine is a Nazi larper. Relate to him accordingly. Just FYI

Blatantly false, I love bagels.

 

[Prime Junta]

Chris Avellone Blaine is a Nazi larper. Relate to him accordingly. Just FYI

Blatantly false, I love bagels.

The all-white ones, I have no doubt.

 

[Bohr]

Finally caught up again - get some sleep MCA!

 

[Blaine]

The all-white ones, I have no doubt.

I actually go for the diverse and multicultural everything bagel.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

The all-white ones, I have no doubt.

I actually go for the diverse and multicultural everything bagel.

The rainbow bagel?

 

[rohand]

Another reason to try and leave for at least a while: Some of the biggest raises at Obsidian didn't come internally - it came from people who left, then came back and got a jump in pay (yes, Anthony is correct, some people did return - like Brandon, and I'm sure he got a substantial raise for returning - and he deserved it).

Jesus Christ that's the exact way it goes where I work (financial IT systems development company).

 

[Infinitron]

MCA: To be clear, I'm not a journalist and the RPG Codex isn't journalism. If I had to, I'd describe the Codex as a sort of newsletter/trade journal/information clearinghouse for a subset of the RPG fandom.

I wouldn't publish my speculative hunches on the website's front page, but they're fine here.

 

[Briosafreak]

Finally caught up again - get some sleep MCA!

Yes please, at leat give us a 6 hours break, I haven't done anything all morning but reading this and sending mails, MCA is taking EUs productivity into a halt.

<3 MCA

 

[Zed]

we haven't implemented opinions and feelings for the Infinitron a.i. yet, sorry chris

 

[ERYFKRAD]

, I'm not a journalist

But you gotta admit, journalist would be a good cover for your Mossad jobs.

 

[Quillon]

I'm sorry, you brought this up, and I don't have time or the inclination to watch the presentation

He said crunch is bad & stupid; leads to bad quality of life for devs which leads to them leaving which is bad cos of the investments you made into that developer is gone with them(employee retention is very important) but overtime can be very good if it doesn't turn into crunch. He talked about unions last and said it could be good or bad, should be looked into, if the developers won't do something about it, it will be done for them sooner or later.

He gave examples of how it(crunch) was over the years for him; which started from death-marching to NV being made mostly without crunch.

It was a short talk, people left before even properly seated

 

[Maculo]

That wasn't it (although it would have helped). The issue was I felt loyalty and indebted to Feargus.

To explain, for a long time, I thought Feargus had protected me from my early management failures back at Interplay (I definitely made some as a first lead on Torment) and watched out for me when I was under stress and working double-time on Fallout 2/Torment - and he told me as much, which I thought was a noble thing for a manager to do, so I resolved to support him as best I could because he clearly had my back.

During the last year at Obsidian, however, one of the breaking points (and I think he didn't realize how much his Interplay protection had meant to me personally) was he then told me he had actually done the exact opposite of what he said he'd done and that he hadn't done anything at all, and in fact, encouraged some of the troubles I had experienced. Other Obsidian employees have experienced similar revelations of past actions that turned out not to be true by Feargus's own admission.

This post hurt to read. The lack of compensation and crappy work environment is one thing, but to learn you endured it for 15 years over a cheap lie. A lie that Feargus never gave more than a passing thought. It feels like a cruel joke.

 

[Wunderbar]

Chris Avellone, in regards of Pathfinder rpg - was it different to work with foreign developers? Do they all speak english, or there is only one-two devs you're in contact with?

 

[Bumvelcrow]

Chris, hello, nice to meet you. Sadly I can't tell my other half about this conversation as I used up all her tolerance of the word 'Avellone' during the PoE kickstarter, during which I was labelled a 'fanboy', whatever that is. If I invoke your name again she will tease me and I shall be sad.

Couple of questions/musings. It's interesting that Feargus seems to respect Josh and apparently not you, despite you formerly being an owner and Josh just one of the plebs. You implied that Josh was not part of the clique given his attempted resignations and threats of being sacked, but is there a particular personality type that can work Feargus? I assume from reading this that he doesn't like being directly challenged or humiliated in company. I presume Josh is the quiet type who can emit an area affect aura of contempt when Ferg is talking and thus shame Ferg into silence without saying anything specific.

About the management hierarchies. I work in a university where there's a very deep and rigid structure on the IT side, and a very flat and almost unmanaged pool on the research side. The IT side hate the rigid hierarchy but despite their unhappiness and complains they actually get shit done because they have to report regularly. The research side tends to require strong individual personalities to make much progress, and they tend to squash the opinions of the more passive, even if their actual work is of a poor quality. The lack of oversight means there's precious little team ethic and people tend to hoard information or skills, leading to a massive amount of repeated and thrown out work and little skill osmosis. Both extremes have problems but I tend to favour a vertical structure as it at least allows you to know who and where you need to go for information or validation. Too often on the research side people just end up drifting without direction and fading out completely. Although a hierarchy that is so deep that you can't see the top and where you place in it is suffocating and demoralising as there seems no way to progress your career.

I loved PS:T story but the game mechanics were dreadful to the point that it ended up being a chore to play and might have worked better as an adventure. Did you find the combat detracted from the story you were trying to tell? Would you have preferred better combat or no combat? Similar story with KotOR2: great story, tedious action, particularly coming so soon after the mechanically near-identical KotOR. It was just burned out on the repetitive fights by that point. BTW, the most memorable individual part of PS:T for me were the tragic little vignettes in the Sensorium, which stuck with me for years after I finished the game. Were they your writing?