Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

  1. As a visitor to the Codex, you must first visit this poll and vote yes: http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25402
  2. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Interview RPG Codex Exclusive Interview: bitComposer's Take on the Chaos Chronicles Dispute

Discussion in 'RPG Codex News & Content Comments' started by Grunker, Aug 8, 2013.

  1. Grunker RPG Codex Staff Patron

    Grunker
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    16,226
    Location:
    Copenhagen
    Codex 2012 Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera
    Click here and disable ads!
    Tags: bitComposer; Chaos Chronicles; Coreplay; Michael Hoss; Peter Ohlmann; Wolfgang Duhr

    UPDATE, August 11, 2013: Coreplay has issued a statement in response to this interview. See the end of this interview for Coreplay's response.

    [​IMG]

    Chaos Chronicles was the kind of game the Codex had not dared hope for. Isometric perspective. Turn-based combat with a complex character system a la Temple of Elemental Evil. Overland map travel a la Realms of Arkania. To this formula a pinch of Gold Box was added along with a dash of Wizardry. Dungeons to delve into, treasures to find, creatures to kill. And not a single cent from Kickstarter or any other crowdfunding platform. Chaos Chronicles was to prove to the world and to us exactly what a small developer, full of passion and talent, allied with a small publisher willing to take the necessary risks, would be able to do.

    And then, of course, it all went wrong. Chaos Chronicles rapidly sank into the depths of development hell.

    After fans petitioned them to allow the game's development to continue, bitComposer issued a statement, and Peter Ohlmann (aka HobGoblin42) of Coreplay responded to that statement. When all was said and done, the question of who was to blame quickly became muddy. Determined to uncover the truth on what happened to Chaos Chronicles, I contacted both Michael Hoss (aka CrashOberbreit) of bitComposer and Peter Ohlmann to hear if they wanted to tell their sides of the story. Michael was the first to respond.

    Today, we bring you an interview with Wolfgang Duhr, a member of bitComposer's board of directors. In this surprisingly frank interview, Duhr speaks of the hardships of being an "evil publisher," responds to the accusation that bitComposer was trying to force an early release of Chaos Chronicles, and encourages the community to show ongoing interest in the game so that it might be released.

    Regardless of how you feel about bitComposer, this interview is one that we feel is well worth the read.

    Read the full article: RPG Codex Exclusive Interview - bitComposer's Take on the Chaos Chronicles Dispute
    ^ Top  
  2. Cosmic Misogynerd Arbiter Patron

    Cosmic Misogynerd
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2013
    Messages:
    1,060
    Location:
    Estados Fallidos Mexicanos
    Codex 2013 Divinity: Original Sin
    Nice interview. It's really weird to read how a publisher representative (of shitComposer) answers the questions in a very candid way. Eagerly waiting for the other side of the story (coRAPElay) to make comparisons. But it seems that both sides are to blame for this.
    ^ Top  
  3. garren Arbiter

    garren
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2007
    Messages:
    773
    Location:
    Grue-Infested Darkness
    So Coreplay got a new shareholder that's fucking things up with his/her unreasonable demands. Speculation, I know, that's just the impression I got from the article.
    ^ Top  
  4. Cosmic Misogynerd Arbiter Patron

    Cosmic Misogynerd
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2013
    Messages:
    1,060
    Location:
    Estados Fallidos Mexicanos
    Codex 2013 Divinity: Original Sin
    Yep. Evil publishers shareholders always ruining the fun.
    Irenaeus Brofists this.
    ^ Top  
  5. Bubbles I'm forever blowing

    Bubbles
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2013
    Messages:
    1,485
    How did you arrive at that conclusion? Judging from the interview, it sounds like there's three sides involved (publisher, state funding, devs), and the devs are the ones causing the trouble.

    Stuff like this

    is typically what you hear the publisher doing in this kind of story; for a dev to behave in this way strikes me a pretty unusual.

    I wouldn't call that "speculation" when the publisher outright states

    ^ Top  
  6. The Vanished One Arbiter

    The Vanished One
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,159
    Duhr's answers seem reasonable and reasonably transparent to me, and accepting to answer questions from the 'dex is always a plus. I'm inclined to believe bC more, at least until Cp clear up this "new investor" thing.
    ^ Top  
  7. ikarinokami Educated

    ikarinokami
    Joined:
    May 5, 2013
    Messages:
    49
    He gets an A+ for dodging the citidels question. my reading of the interview is that this dispute is all about the royality share. the new investor wants coreplay to get a higher royality share. I'm guessing that coreplay does not really want to complete the game based upon the old contract because they won't make any money on it and most of it will go to bitcomposer.
    Misconnected Brofists this.
    ^ Top  
  8. evdk comrade troglodyte :M Patron

    evdk
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Messages:
    9,258
    Location:
    Corona regni Bohemiae
    Codex 2012 Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    Was this really necessary?
    funky_koval, Rane, Scrooge and 16 others Brofist this.
    ^ Top  
  9. Cosmic Misogynerd Arbiter Patron

    Cosmic Misogynerd
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2013
    Messages:
    1,060
    Location:
    Estados Fallidos Mexicanos
    Codex 2013 Divinity: Original Sin
    Your mom told me.
    ^ Top  
  10. IDtenT Contact me for a good time Patron

    IDtenT
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2012
    Messages:
    8,226
    Location:
    South Africa
    Divinity: Original Sin
    Since the first statement the publisher's made it has seemed to be a disagreement on the part of the developer. I don't hold the publisher guilty of anything - no matter how much I have loved games that @HobGoblin42 has been involved in.
    ^ Top  
  11. toro Erudite

    toro
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    Messages:
    2,260
    They signed the contract, they have to follow it. Everything else is just an imbecilic move.
    ^ Top  
  12. AbounI Learned Patron

    AbounI
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2012
    Messages:
    199
    Thanks for this innerview, it was a necessity to help us to overstand this shituation.At least, it gets some positivity over the baderation from the last days.So, I guess there is still hope
    ^ Top  
  13. Mrowak Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Mrowak
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,769
    Project: Eternity
    @Grunker
    Excellent interview! :salute: It's exceedingly rare to see a publisher being so candid about legal issues.

    I affirm my sympathy to the publishing side of the dispute. Clearly changing arrangements mid-development all the while refusing to prepare development plans and schedules is the main reason any producer would lose faith in the project. Generally it seemed that Coreplay aimed to keep bitComposer in the dark for a long time.
    ^ Top  
  14. Bubbles I'm forever blowing

    Bubbles
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2013
    Messages:
    1,485
    As the publisher mentioned, the old contract gave Coreplay the option to get a bigger piece of the pie by investing more of their own money during development. That contract actually sounds fairly flexible to me.
    ^ Top  
  15. Grunker RPG Codex Staff Patron

    Grunker
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    16,226
    Location:
    Copenhagen
    Codex 2012 Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera
    My own take on the interview: I am thoroughly satisfied with the frank manner in which bitComposer chose to answer the questions. This is in no small part thanks to DarkUnderlord and Vault Dweller's assistance with the questions, by the way. I feel that bitComposer side-stepped the question about Citadels rather ungracefully, however, and that is probably the biggest spot on an otherwise commendable set of answers.

    My conclusions after following the debate and conducting this interview is that this is obviously much more complicated than the "evil publisher and lazy developer" story (or any variations there-off). Small, risk-willing publisher with good intentions but without top-class management and passionate and competent but uncontrollable developer seems closer to the truth, though obviously that's just my sense of the situation and at its core, guesswork. I imagine none of us will ever get the whole truth. I just hope the game sees release at some point.

    I also hope Coreplay decide to do an interview with us, so both sides can have their say.

    Yes (though credit should be given to DU for the specific wording). Above all the Codex is about cutting out the bullshit and being honest. We did not want to arrive at bitComposer's doorstep with all pretty words and "please-may-we-have-an-interview" only to do the same to Coreplay afterwards. We also clearly stated the terms of our deal with Coreplay's hosting of their forums here. I imagine it was exactly that lack of bullshit and evident honesty that led bitComposer to trust us with their as-honest-as-possible take on the situation (for which we are, quite obviously, thankful).
    adure, CappenVarra, kentable and 12 others Brofist this.
    ^ Top  
  16. Bubbles I'm forever blowing

    Bubbles
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2013
    Messages:
    1,485
    Since everybody involved seems to be desperate for money, I'd imagine we're going to see some version of CC on the shelves sooner rather than later. Possibly followed by another injunction and/or a years long legal battle.
    ^ Top  
  17. evdk comrade troglodyte :M Patron

    evdk
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Messages:
    9,258
    Location:
    Corona regni Bohemiae
    Codex 2012 Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    Seems to me they you can have all that without going all "ShitCompostor LOL," which is frankly just the different kind of bullshit. I also believe that there was no need to beg, as the interview was their idea in the first place to try to get their version of the story out at the place where most of the game's fans visit. I don't dispute that hardballing this interview wasn't warranted, I just question the choice of vocabulary.
    groke, Jack, MaskedMan and 3 others Brofist this.
    ^ Top  
  18. Gurkog Arbiter

    Gurkog
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2012
    Messages:
    1,332
    Location:
    The Great Northwest
    Project: Eternity
    Great interview! :salute:

    This article supports the ever growing case that everything is shit. :kingcomrade:
    ^ Top  
  19. Cosmo Savant

    Cosmo
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2010
    Messages:
    864
    Project: Eternity
    We need a point by point answer by Coreplay now...
    ^ Top  
  20. The Vanished One Arbiter

    The Vanished One
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,159
    Under these circumstances, it'd probably be a broken, pale shadow of the original concept.

    Ah well, modders will fix it.
    ^ Top  
  21. Grunker RPG Codex Staff Patron

    Grunker
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    16,226
    Location:
    Copenhagen
    Codex 2012 Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera
    It seems you misunderstand. We're not calling them ShitComposter. Most of the staff are pretty sympathetic to both sides of this issue I imagine. What we're doing is informing them that some members of the forum are calling them that, so they don't have any illusions about the crowd they're talking to.

    If someone were to interview me about something this delicate, I'd be thankful to know beforehand exactly what I'm dealing with.

    No it wasn't. It was mine.

    It wasn't our choice of vocabulary. It was a restatement of what many of our members were using as a nickname for bC.
    ^ Top  
  22. Metro Arcane Beg Auditor

    Metro
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    14,588
    No, you're not directly calling them that but it looks stupid (and you already got the same point across with the 'evil publisher' stuff)... just like the TotalBiscuit reference. Way to lend that guy more credence. Anyway, the questions were good overall -- it's just that you'd be better off with some form of editorial assistance.

    You choose to use it. You didn't have to. Stop arguing for argument sake.
    ^ Top  
  23. Grunker RPG Codex Staff Patron

    Grunker
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    16,226
    Location:
    Copenhagen
    Codex 2012 Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera
    I disagree, and so does my editorial assistance which did look through the questions and the finished versions more than once. I have explained the part about ShitComposter. As for the TB reference, it makes it clear that the bC's poor reputation isn't just a Codex invention - it is shared by mainstream critics as well.

    Fortunately, the interview does not have to take your (or indeed my own) hatred for TB into its consideration. The fact is that he represents a lot of gamers, and thus he was adequate as an example in the question.
    ^ Top  
  24. Infinitron RPG Codex Staff Patron

    Infinitron
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    32,082
    Codex 2012 Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    Yes, yes, tactless Danish RPG nerd is tactless. Whatever, get over it.
    Thoric and Jashiin Brofist this.
    ^ Top  
  25. Metro Arcane Beg Auditor

    Metro
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    14,588
    Codex gamers? I mean that's who you're trying to represent, right? At least that is your logic behind using 'shitcomposter.' But if TB really is representative of the Codex then I concede the point.

    Anyway, to the actual substance I'm leaning more towards this being a developer issue. Also had no idea this project started out as a ARPG... scary.
    ^ Top  

(buying stuff via the above links helps us pay the hosting bills)