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RPG CODEX 2017 - Dungeon Crawlers - RESULTS

Are you butthurt by the results?


  • Total voters
    42

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,614
After a successful experience making a Roguelikes survey, I decided I would tackle a genre I'm interested in, even if I don't play any dungeon crawlers myself. I saw this as an opportunity to dispell rumors about certain games, or otherwise turn those rumors into reality.

When it came to the Roguelikes survey, some people expressed their discomfort at the options being merely "Enjoyed" and "Didn't enjoy". The survey left no room for preferences. Myself, I like Fallout: New Vegas and Fallout both, yet I would strongly recommend someone to play New Vegas over Fallout. Personal preference, you understand. And so I listened, and decided to add the "Must Play" option.

Why just that, and not a "Must Avoid" option? Well, because if someone tells you you should avoid getting AIDS and avoid getting shot, it's not really important which of the two are most important to avoid (it's getting shot, by the way). And secondly, and most importantly, I find users like to really shit on games they wouldn't shit so much otherwise. Case in point: it's AIDS the one you should avoid, and users will tell you it would be much better to avoid the animu games over the ones that are ACTUALLY must avoids. So I took that option out entirely. People seem much more honest when it comes to recommending good games: "it's good for what it is™", "it's great", "go play it nao!". And I didn't want Codexers being influenced by the ramblings of other Codexers.

This time, as you may well know, I had to use Google Forms (with its strengths and weaknesses) because I lacked official support from the forum to have my own specialized survey made. This means that we probably lost a good number of voters that didn't vote in Google Forms. That said, we still got 80 voters, 16 more than in the Roguelikes poll, but the higher the amount of voters, the more accurate a representation the results will be of the Codex.

Without further preambule, I present you the results.

MOST PLAYED DUNGEON CRAWLERS

JUtd9vA.png

Ohh yesss, that is DIABLO I see as the most played dungeon crawler. It's followed by Icewind Dale and Icewind Dale II, unsurprisingly, given the Codex's love of Black Isle and Infinity Engine D&D cRPGs. An oldie, Daggerfall, and a newbie, The Legend of Grimrock, complete the top five most played dungeon crawlers.

MUST PLAY DUNGEON CRAWLERS

7I3zWnx.png

This lists displays the must play dungeon crawlers, as voted by the Codex. Interestingly enough, the top 15 games (if we were to exclude Clouds of Xeen and Darkside of Xeen, as they are already represented by Worlds of Xeen) are covered either by the Top 70 cRPGs or Age of Incline polls... all of them but one, that is: 1996's Diablo.

AVOID THESE - DON'T BELIEVE THEIR LIES

55jPbJ5.png

Bear in mind how this survey went through: users were asked to vote on these games based on how good the dungeon crawling experience was. These games aren't necessarily bad RPGs: they are just bad dungeon crawlers. So take this list with a grain of salt. However, if there are games that you are confident they are "dungeon crawlers", then by all means consider the negative results as proof that these games do, indeed, suck. Case in point, games like Bloodwych and Lands of Lore III.

Butthurt about the results? These non-dungeon crawlers hurting your eyes? Here you go! Now you are free to download this handy excel and twist the results as you please!
 
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Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,614
Looks like some people confused "Not recommended" with "Didn't play" though.

It wouldn't surprise me that some thought it would be funny to shit on games they haven't played, alas, it can't be avoided.
 

Lonely Vazdru

Pimp my Title
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,656
Location
Agen
"Wizardy" and "Might and Magic" trusting the top 5 makes sense. They're good games, particularly in the dungeon crawling department. Sad not to see "Icewind Dale" in there, but it makes sense.

So, no butthurt as opposed to what I anticipated. Which, of course, makes me butthurt.
 

YES!

Hi, I'm Roqua
Dumbfuck
Joined
Feb 26, 2017
Messages
2,088
These results are as bad and invalid and the methods used to generate them.
 

King Crispy

Too bad I have no queen.
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
1,876,516
Location
Future Wasteland
Strap Yourselves In
Because of Daggerfall's often magnificent and just as often ridiculously huge dungeons I guess I can see why it would be included in a poll of favorite dungeon crawlers, but it's still got, even today, the largest outdoor landmass of any other RPG ever created.

This whole experiment of yours was just weird from the beginning, Sigourn.
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,614
Because of Daggerfall's often magnificent and just as often ridiculously huge dungeons I guess I can see why it would be included in a poll of favorite dungeon crawlers, but it's still got, even today, the largest outdoor landmass of any other RPG ever created.

Come on, let's be honest with ourselves: randomly generated nothingness isn't nearly as fun as randomly generated dungeons. At first I thought the way you did, but eventually I realized Daggerfall is just basically souped up Wizardry, without the handcrafted dungeons and with a map replacing the "hub" system.
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,614
without the handcrafted dungeons and with a map replacing the "hub" system.

And without the turn-based combat and without the party-based system and without the grid inspired movement and...

Yeah, what I mean is that Daggerfall is much more of a dungeon crawler than a game like New Vegas is. Both are open world RPGs, but Daggerfall's appeal is in the quest and in the mazelike dungeons. And I'd argue Daggerfall is not a pure dungeon crawler if only because it lacks Wizardry's "hub" system, but I consider it to be very much a dungeon crawler.
 
Self-Ejected

Lurker King

Self-Ejected
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
1,865,419
I don't know much about Dungeon Crawlers, but I played both Diablos and IWDs. If these games are perceived as the best the genre has to offer, either these voters are retarded or the genre sucks.
 

Lady_Error

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Patron
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
1,879,250
TOP FIVE DUNGEON CRAWLERS

Top_5_Dungeon_Crawlers.png
The majority of the Codex has played these. The majority of those who have played them agrees they are must plays (and yes, I did these percentages correctly: out of the people who played, not the people who voted). If there are five dungeon crawlers you must play before you die, these are them. Wizardry VI, VII and 8; Might & Magic: World of Xeen (IV & V) and VI. Sounds like a conspiracy.

That goes for "what I do have to play next?". But I can hear you already: "I have played all those! Give me MOAR!". Oh, I'mma fuckin' spell it out for ya.

MOST POSITIVE RATINGS

Most_Enjoyed.png

The Top 5 you picked is bordering on fake news. Why did you not include M&M3, Star Trail, Ultima Underworld in the Top 5, as they actually are? There are enough people who played them.

Seriously, Wizardry 6 played by 42 people - included. M&M3 played by 37 people and FUCKING NUMBER ONE, and you don't include it.
 

Lady_Error

█▓▒░ ░▒▓█
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Joined
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I don't know much about Dungeon Crawlers, but I played both Diablos and IWDs. If these games are perceived as the best the genre has to offer, either these voters are retarded or the genre sucks.

You're retarded. Diablo and IWD are only the most played games. The best rated games are further down.
 

mushaden

Scholar
Joined
Aug 12, 2015
Messages
334
The results don't look bad at a glance, but have you actually played daggerfall op? Because you're talking like you've played it, and when I look at the list in your signature, seems you haven't.
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,614
The Top 5 you picked is bordering on fake news. Why did you not include M&M3, Star Trail, Ultima Underworld in the Top 5, as they actually are? There are enough people who played them.

Seriously, Wizardry 6 played by 42 people - included. M&M3 played by 37 people and FUCKING NUMBER ONE, and you don't include it.

Because if you had bothered to read:

"The majority of the Codex has played these. The majority of those who have played them agrees they are must plays (and yes, I did these percentages correctly: out of the people who played, not the people who voted). If there are five dungeon crawlers you must play before you die, these are them. Wizardry VI, VII and 8; Might & Magic: World of Xeen (IV & V) and VI. Sounds like a conspiracy."

Therefore, I first took the games most of the Codex had played. Then, I took the games that had a majority of "Must Play" ratings. And that leaves Realms of Arkania out of the question. 40.54% of players thought M&M III was a Must Play. But for the ones I listed in the Top Five, over half of the people who played them thought it was a Must Play.

Think of it this way: how can the Codex's #3 Dungoen Crawler be Realms of Arkania, when over 60% of the voters didn't play it?

So no, it is not "fake news", my Lady Dumbfuck. The objective scores are there. I provided my interpretations to the scores and how I would consider them, but the best table will always be the first: it shows the type of games the Codex is interested in.
 
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Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,614
I don't know much about Dungeon Crawlers, but I played both Diablos and IWDs. If these games are perceived as the best the genre has to offer, either these voters are retarded or the genre sucks.

Don't worry, I won't have you lashed to a cross like the rest of these degenerates that only shows the games that were the most played. So it's not related to quality in any way or form.
 

Lady_Error

█▓▒░ ░▒▓█
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1,879,250
Therefore, I first took the games most of the Codex had played. Then, I took the games that had a majority of "Must Play" ratings. And that leaves Realms of Arkania out of the question. 40.54% of players thought M&M III was a Must Play. But for the ones I listed in the Top Five, over half of the people who played them thought it was a Must Play.

Think of it this way: how can the Codex's #3 RPG be Realms of Arkania, when over 60% of the voters didn't play it?

Your Top 5 is a fucking retarded arbitrary pick.

Look at the actual Top 20:

Most_Enjoyed.png


And compare it to your "Top 5":

Top_5_Dungeon_Crawlers.png


- Wizardry 6 was played by 52% - you include it in the Top 5. Might & Magic 5 was ALSO played by 52% -and it's NOT included in the Top 5. The Must Play numbers of those two are 52% and 40% - big fucking difference to exclude M&M5 based on that.

- Ultima Underworld has fucking 73% MUST PLAY - higher than any of your Top 5. Yet you exclude it because "only" 46% played it as opposed to 52% of Wizardry 6? :argh:

Those are just the most glaring examples.
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,614
Your Top 5 is a fucking retarded arbitrary pick.

Feel free to pick your own, I didn't say mine was "definitive", and this discussion is retarded if you are not playing the games/have already played the games. What I set out to do I achieved: a good list of dungeon crawlers beyond the obvious favorites, picked by the community, and voted by the community without restriction of points.

EDIT: Also your avatar looks like Taylor Swift and I want to fug her.
 

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