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Roguey vs the Grognards Thread

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CyberP

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A desert landscape that's boring to tears. It was a very very stupid decision to not set it in the ruins of the old civilization and go bonkers with anthropology (let civilizations/communities after the fall change into something weirder than in New Vegas). While the rebuilding of civilization and the frontier theme might be an interesting deviation on paper, it clearly isn't in the game, even FO3 had a better setting (don't care if some details don't make sense, too bad it was such a fail as an RPG). I love to dig around in ruins and play hobby archeologist. Maybe a little more lore about the time before and after the war would have helped to get me invested in New Vegas, dunno. But really, that desert sandbox just sux.

It is a sandbox with a lot of geographical variety- this is quite an achievement for open world design. I'm not sure how many fully explorable open world games you have played, but so many consist of copy/paste art assets and uninteresting locations filled with little content. there's a lot of variety in FO:NV's world design. This is a fully explorable world. very large scope. It's quite the achievement and you only need to look at other open world games to see why.

VATS which is cancer. :killitwithfire:

Indeed. I was hoping Obsidian would heavily modify it or replace it with something else, but alas it was just as shitty as it was in FO3. However, it is optional, so it grants some forgiveness.

Also I made the mistake to play it on XBawks and there is no way you can successfully play a sniper with that shit controller, those Legion assassins just put you down like a dog.

You're complaining about hardware that Obsidian has no control over here. this is not valid. Not to mention you obviously just suck, aiming is feasible. This hardware is designed specifically for gaming for Allah's sake.

I though it had good C&C though, and the dialogues weren't as retarded as in FO3 at least. I think it was more difficult too. Still didn't play through it, was too frustrated after dying about 20 times in the assassins encounter.

I appreciate your honesty. I struggle to respect this though and want to laugh at you. It's not a particularly difficult game even on Hardcore mode + very hard combo.

At that point it dawned on me that this build I planned was utter shit (I even invested some points and stuff in guns and had a backup shotgun, didn't help) and that I won't have any sort of fun if I keep on.

Ha. Are fail states in New Vegas even possible?

NPCs were pretty much forgettable run of the mill questgivers, and gunplay and everything else was not much of an improvement over FO3 I didn't bother.

You lack an eye for the finer details. there's many, many improvements over FO3's overall design.
As for the quest givers, some are very interesting. sometimes it can feel like very designed fetch quest marathons, other times you can find an interesting character, reason with their plight, and be interested in whatever quest they may have for you. It can at times be immersive and not suffer from typical RPG fetch quest filler bullshit.

I had much much more fun with Skyrim which isn't exactly a great game either.

Skyrim is intentionally designed to appeal to new age fucktards and lacks content. New Vegas is intentionally more uncompromising and complex, and traditional CRPG-styled, but of course it's not perfect.
You're either trolling or need to open your eyes and understand game design a little better.
 

NotAGolfer

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Deuce Traveler didn't say that, I did.
uninteresting locations filled with little content
Yeah, like New Vegas for instance.
You're complaining about hardware that Obsidian has no control over here. this is not valid. Not to mention you obviously just suck, aiming is feasible. This hardware is designed specifically for gaming for Allah's sake.
You don't know what you're talking about. Sure it was feasable for a couple of hours. But only til the Legion assassins decided to hunt me down and came running at me in the middle of the desert full speed firing from all barrels. VATS isn't useful for sniper rifles in New Vegas, they didn't bother to adjust the range penalties.

It can at times be immersive and not suffer from typical RPG fetch quest filler bullshit.
Didn't doubt that. But most of the NPCs and even the joinable ones are not very interesting, heck the whole gameworld isn't.
Skyrim is intentionally designed to appeal to new age fucktards and lacks content.
No, it doesn't lack content. That's the fucking problem with it, too much content with too little depth to it.
New Vegas is intentionally more uncompromising and complex, and traditional CRPG-styled, but of course it's not perfect.
I don't see what's so traditional and complex about it. It's the same stupid game as FO3 mechanic-wise. Execution is just a little better is all.
You're either trolling or need to open your eyes and understand game design a little better.
Cool story brah
 

tuluse

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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
I don't see what's so traditional and complex about it. It's the same stupid game as FO3 mechanic-wise.
uY5wBTP.jpg
 
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CyberP

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You don't know what you're talking about. Sure it was feasable for a couple of hours. But only til the Legion assassins decided to hunt me down and came running at me in the middle of the desert full speed firing from all barrels. VATS isn't useful for sniper rifles in New Vegas, they didn't bother to adjust the range penalties.

Dude, you got mentally dominated by New Vegas, stick to Skyrim.

No, it doesn't lack content. That's the fucking problem with it, too much content with too little depth to it.

Eh, it certainly lacked depth, but in terms of gameplay mechanics and systems it lacked quantity too.

I'm not saying we need more dreughr dungeons. Quality and depth over quantity was certainly needed here.

I don't see what's so traditional and complex about it.

Exactly my point.
 

Deuce Traveler

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
A desert landscape that's boring to tears. It was a very very stupid decision to not set it in the ruins of the old civilization and go bonkers with anthropology (let civilizations/communities after the fall change into something weirder than in New Vegas). While the rebuilding of civilization and the frontier theme might be an interesting deviation on paper, it clearly isn't in the game, even FO3 had a better setting (don't care if some details don't make sense, too bad it was such a fail as an RPG). I love to dig around in ruins and play hobby archeologist. Maybe a little more lore about the time before and after the war would have helped to get me invested in New Vegas, dunno. But really, that desert sandbox just sux.

Eh? :mrfussy:

Deuce Traveler didn't say that, I did.

Thank you!
 

Roguey

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Console gamers don't want VATS, they want action that feels like an action game.
Fallout 3 and New Vegas did just fine with VATS and felt like action games. FPP melee is terrible, the engine they're using also adds to its terribleness.

Besides, VATS was especially terrible for melee combat because it makes positioning total chaos.
I disagree. New Vegas melee was fun for me and I don't recall any positioning problems.

Guns will always feel like shit when damage is as abstracted as in New Vegas. Shooting a realistic human character in the head and them not flinching has not been acceptable in FPS games for a long time.
Once again I disagree. Many other 3/NV players do as well.

It was presented as an FPS, and compared to contemporary games like Rage, Metro 2033, MW3, and Halo Reach, NV is painfully unresponsive.
Enemies aren't particularly responsive true, but that's because of the limb crippling. You want enemies to flinch, you cripple the torso.

he's not obsessed with mechanics, he's obsessed with "balance" which he disguises as being about "mechanics". that's why his mechanics are so fucking boring. nothing is cool or fun or interesting when everything is equally "good" and you're left with Excel: The RPG
This is an odd thing to say considering PoE hasn't been balanced yet.

I read the descriptions of PoE's class abilities and they look damn fine to me.
 
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CyberP

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Seriously, except for the C&C what was that much better mechanic-wise? Gameplay felt pretty much the same for me.

There's a lot of changes gameplay-wise. It's quite the list. they are mostly all finer details that tally into a lovely cumulative whole.
 

NotAGolfer

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Seriously, except for the C&C what was that much better mechanic-wise? Gameplay felt pretty much the same for me.

There's a lot of changes gameplay-wise. It's quite the list. they are mostly all finer details that tally into a lovely cumulative whole.
So lots of window dressing that doesn't change shit about the borked formula behind it, got it. +M

I wouldn't even mind the mechanics, I don't care, ARPGs are fun too.
The setting, factions and story in general simply wasn't my cup of tea. Sure all these factions make sense in the Fallout world (except the Legion, hate that shit), but they are pretty unimaginative and nothing in this game surprised me or made me give a fuck. Weird that such a standard fare game comes from such a huge story fag who is even interested in history like Sawyer seems to be.
 
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tuluse

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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Seriously, except for the C&C what was that much better mechanic-wise? Gameplay felt pretty much the same for me.
So now we're at "other than the primary roleplaying mechanic what mechanics were different"?

...

meh, I started writing a list but I don't actually care enough to.
 
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CyberP

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meh, I started writing a list but I don't actually care enough to.

Pry open the eyes of blind old men. Someone has to do it so we can stand united and plan a future of incline.
 

NotAGolfer

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Seriously, except for the C&C what was that much better mechanic-wise? Gameplay felt pretty much the same for me.
So now we're at "other than the primary roleplaying mechanic what mechanics were different"?

...

meh, I started writing a list but I don't actually care enough to.
Don't bother, this thread is about Roguey anyway, so sorry for the derail, folks.
Pry open the eyes of blind old men. Someone has to do it so we can stand united and plan a future of incline.
The future of incline has nothing to do with RPG light shooters with bad gunplay and lots of C&C noone cares about because the story just won't pick up.

something else, actually about what Sawyer said:
So according to him a true RPG is a game where you can express your personality in the game, right?
What does he mean by that?
Background reactive mechanics that keep track of your behavior in the game? Good, I love faction mechanics.
Dialogue C&C?
Nice, the more the better.
But does he really think this is what makes it an RPG? Not the careful development of your character(s), party management, trying to overcome hurdles in the game by gaining experience and honing their strong skills and ignoring the weak ones?
If all I have to do at levelup is to blindly click them plus buttons without thinking why should it even have a leveling mechanics beyond what Zelda games have?
 
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CyberP

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Don't worry, I'm not of the cult of Sawyer either. Some of what he says I do not agree with at all.

To me, a "true" RPG is basically anything that was labelled and agreed to be an RPG in the 90's, which was no doubt the golden age in gaming in general, not just RPGs. A simple answer to the never ending argument, right?
 
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CyberP

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To add a secondary and more personal opinion that's a little less ambiguous and more narrow-minded : an RPG must have TTRPG-inspired rules...because that's what all the awesome RPGs have. :)
 
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Seriously, except for the C&C what was that much better mechanic-wise? Gameplay felt pretty much the same for me.

I only own New Vegas on console and trying to play a sniper with that fucking stupid crutch of a gamepad wasn't enjoyable the least. I actually quit that session and started from scratch because at some point a group of Legion bounty hunters jumped on me and raped me about 20 times in a row. VATS doesn't help with snipers.

:kingcomrade:
 
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Sprinkle a little choclate chip on a turd, it is still a turd.

Best part about New Vegas is how Obsidian was gangbanged by Bethesda executives, and denied their bonus due to a point of Metacritic score. :lol:
The sweet sweet butthurt it must have caused Obsidiantards.
And NV was not balanced. Riot Shotgun build rapes everything level 12 onwards :smug:
 
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CyberP

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Best part about New Vegas is how Obsidian was gangbanged by Bethesda executives, and denied their bonus due to a point of Metacritic score. :lol:
The sweet sweet butthurt it must have caused Obsidiantards.

Fucking trolls man...I really don't find corruption in the industry (or world for that matter) to be funny.

True about balance though, NV does have issues, but there is an acceptable level of balance common to RPGs.
 

AN4RCHID

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roguey said:
Fallout 3 and New Vegas did just fine with VATS and felt like action games.
Definitely not polished action games. Quoting Jeff Gerstmann:

"Avoiding combat was my method throughout my first playthrough of Fallout 3, and that's largely because I didn't find the combat to be very satisfying. Though the game takes place from a first-person perspective and you are often armed with a gun of some kind, this is not an action game, and it's certainly not a first-person shooter. If that's what you're after, you're going to find the combat flips between dull and frustrating. Since this still has the trappings of an RPG around the edges, things like your accuracy, damage, and chance to do critical hits are governed by statistics."

roguey said:
FPP melee is terrible, the engine they're using also adds to its terribleness.
I disagree that it's terrible as a rule. Dark Messiah, Chivalry, Mount and Blade, and Dishonored did it well. No argument that the FO3 engine is terrible.

roguey said:
New Vegas melee was fun for me and I don't recall any positioning problems.
Sure, there are no problems with positioning in the sense that positioning isn't even really a part of the melee combat system. VATS lets you teleport around without taking damage, so half of the tactical challenge that makes those other games work is completely missing from FO3 and NV. The other half is blocking or any kind of defensive abilities, and that's also missing. Finally, all the different melee attacks in NV are functionally identical. Melee combat is basically 1) get in range, 2) tap into VATS, 3) click click click, 4) VICTORY! It's possibly the most braindead melee system in any game I've ever played, not even trying to be hyperbolic. Skyrim is superior by default because it has some actual tactical options in melee, like shield-bashing, shield breaking, managing stamina, light and heavy attacks, and positioning that isn't broken.

roguey said:
Once again I disagree. Many other 3/NV players do as well.
Fair enough. I know a lot of people who agree with me. Question; do you play shooters?

roguey said:
Enemies aren't particularly responsive true, but that's because of the limb crippling. You want enemies to flinch, you cripple the torso.
I don't see why that would prevent them from being responsive. Perfect Dark did limb crippling back in 2000 and had excellent damage feedback for enemies:

 
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Best part about New Vegas is how Obsidian was gangbanged by Bethesda executives, and denied their bonus due to a point of Metacritic score. :lol:
The sweet sweet butthurt it must have caused Obsidiantards.

Fucking trolls man...I really don't find corruption in the industry (or world for that matter) to be funny.

True about balance though, NV does have issues, but there is an acceptable level of balance common to RPGs.
How is that the corruption of the industry? It was part of the contract they signed.
 

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