Rogue system - new space sim

[tindrli]

I'm actually surprised there are no relativistic single player space sims. The visual effects and behaviour I've seen in relativity demo tools are deeply weird and would probably be quite interesting to play with.

It would take a long time to get anywhere (stars are light years apart), and having relativity+FTL would allow you to violate causality (e.g. leave and then arrive back... before you left ) .

could be could be.. but the strange thing is that no one didnt even fuckin try it!!!

 

[DraQ]

It would take a long time to get anywhere (stars are light years apart), and having relativity+FTL would allow you to violate causality (e.g. leave and then arrive back... before you left ) .

How does Alcubierre's play with relativity?

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

In spacesim, the most important realistic element is movement itself, and the game is tailored aorund how you use this movement to get from A to B.
Sure, stuff like heat and fuel/remass management can be made toggleable, but not Newtonian physics.

Actually, they can't because without fuel and remass management you'll end up with much shorter travel times between planets because you can accelerate much longer.

 

[LazyD]

Do want

edit: day dreaming of a spacestation13 mod... fuck my life.

 

[DraQ]

In spacesim, the most important realistic element is movement itself, and the game is tailored aorund how you use this movement to get from A to B.
Sure, stuff like heat and fuel/remass management can be made toggleable, but not Newtonian physics.

Actually, they can't because without fuel and remass management you'll end up with much shorter travel times between planets because you can accelerate much longer.

Good point. Presumably the same with heat (any reasonable space drive is going to heat up like a bitch due to power involved).

Still the part that's probably the most desirable to toggle for casualfags is also the part the whole mechanics hinges on.

 

[tindrli]

In spacesim, the most important realistic element is movement itself, and the game is tailored aorund how you use this movement to get from A to B.
Sure, stuff like heat and fuel/remass management can be made toggleable, but not Newtonian physics.

Actually, they can't because without fuel and remass management you'll end up with much shorter travel times between planets because you can accelerate much longer.

Good point. Presumably the same with heat (any reasonable space drive is going to heat up like a bitch due to power involved).

Still the part that's probably the most desirable to toggle for casualfags is also the part the whole mechanics hinges on.

space is cold.. very cold...

 

[LazyD]

I guess my daydream of a space station 13 mod isn't that far off considering he's already implemented FPS travel inside large ships and the game is designed with many modding capabilities

 

[DraQ]

space is cold.. very cold...

It might be cold but first and foremost it's vacuum.

Being vacuum, it only lets you get rid of heat by radiation.

Ever used vacuum flask?

It will not heat up becasue of Stephan-Boltzmann law. The heat would be radiated away rapidly.

Radiator efficiency may scale with 4th power of its temperature, but there is this pesky constant with 10^-8 which happens to matter at relatively low temperatures:

1. You'll generally want your radiator below 3000 something K, realistically probably below 1000K. Wolfram melts at 3700, carbon at 3800, most materials can't handle that much and most materials lose structural strength when heated sufficiently. You will also want to keep some liquid coolant in and circulating. At 1000K you get some 50kW per square m if your radiator is close to black body.

2. Power requirements of sensible space drive are hilarious. You need to make as little propellant as possible carry as much momentum as possible (to not run out of remass). To do this you must fling it really fucking fast. Unfortunately, kinetic energy grows with second power of velocity while momentum only with first, so your energy requirement will go up pretty fast and so will amounts of heat to radiate.

Now, depending on drive, propellant may help carry the heat away, so it may not be as much of a problem when flying, but if you want combat in your game and weapons in form of railguns (that nom power) and lasers then you'll have problem unless you just boil your coolant into space, but that will end pretty quickly, along with coolant (or remass if you use it instead of your circulating coolant for lossy cooling, which makes sense as your remass will likely be hydrogen, as this shit is all over the place in space).

 

[DraQ]

Dude are you fuckin' retarded?

What kind of Star drive in reality do you know?

What kind of space drive can you conceive that doesn't rely on flinging matter nor trollscience (and can be used independently of context so no playing with solar sails or wires in magnetic fields)?


Oh, right, Captain Shrek.

 

[Kirtai]

How does Alcubierre's play with relativity?

From what I've heard it works with relativity but gives the middle finger to causality.

It would take a long time to get anywhere (stars are light years apart), and having relativity+FTL would allow you to violate causality (e.g. leave and then arrive back... before you left ) .

True, but there are ways around that such as not having unrestricted FTL and only allowing interstellar access via some kind of star-bound portal network.

Hmm, I wonder how well a relativistic STL game restricted to to a single star system or small cluster that's build to scale would work. People seriously underestimate just how big a star system is, or even a single planet.

 

[DraQ]

How does Alcubierre's play with relativity?

From what I've heard it works with relativity but gives the middle finger to causality.

Fuck causality, then.

It would take a long time to get anywhere (stars are light years apart), and having relativity+FTL would allow you to violate causality (e.g. leave and then arrive back... before you left ) .

True

Actually, would causality violations be an actual problem if you just had a number of non-relativistic frames of reference (celestial bodies), and ships?

It's not like anyone will be observing your ship's departure and arrival from fast moving ship, some tens of ly from both systems after those tens of years, and even if they will it won't impact the gameplay.

Hmm, I wonder how well a relativistic STL game restricted to to a single star system or small cluster that's build to scale would work. People seriously underestimate just how big a star system is, or even a single planet.

Why not? Imagine Frontier in single system, except much more crowded, much more detailed, and with somewhat slower in-system travel. Going from, say, Mars, with its own bunch of orbital facilities, surface infrastructure and traffic to Jupiter's moon system would be quite a trip.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Why not? Imagine Frontier in single system, except much more crowded, much more detailed, and with somewhat slower in-system travel. Going from, say, Mars, with its own bunch of orbital facilities, surface infrastructure and traffic to Jupiter's moon system would be quite a trip.

That's how I was playing Pioneer.

 

[Tzaero]

Two years later, and the guy still seems to be working on it.



Skip 23 Minutes in as theres some glitches in the beginning.

 

[Burning Bridges]

What is that? It looks like a dildo.

 

[agris]

A really good Ars Technica article on Rogue System. I know an aerospace engineer who will cream their pants at this project.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/...he-creator-of-rogue-system-aka-dcs-spaceship/

Also, here's one of the only videos I've seen of the 'fast' start-up sequence for the ship (which is just a game-mechanics stand-in)

 

[dbx]

An actual space sim? Sold.
Couldn't resist.
Gave 60$.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

From youtube comments (Michael Juliano is the developer of this game)

Kyle Biggs 14 hours ago
Forgive me if I've mentioned it before (I repeat myself, and I have terrible memory), but have you read the scifi series 'The Lost Fleet'? I highly recommend it for considering how extremely high velocity combat might work. Are you planning on modeling the speed of light as it applies to sensors? IE, I might be able to detect an enemy ship over by some planet, but the information I have would be X minutes/hours old, and thus out of date.
· 1




Michael Juliano 13 hours ago
+Kyle Biggs I have not read that particular series yet--very little time to read obviously I've had a few suggestions over at the forums for various series. I'll have to try and devote a bit of time to at least some of them. Speed of light IS modeled for both the current prototype sensor, as well as COMMS. Incoming/outgoing communications are NOT instantaneous, for example.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

It would be cool if he'd make space fighters really big. Like 60+ or even 100+ metres long. From what I've read, small fighters are unrealistic.

Also, technical progress:
In 100 years, fighters grew from being 6 metres long to being 20 metres long. Move to space would probably cause as drastic growth.

 

[potatojohn]

We've gone through this before, but fighters in space are in general unrealistic.

Space warfare will probably be huge ships equipped with lots of missiles and countermeasures battling each other at millions of km

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

why missiles? they can be intercepted/diverted. you either find some way to make lasers a decent weapon or everything else can be dodged or neutralized, thus it's close combat or planet busting with mass drivers.

 

[Raapys]

I agree. Missiles make no sense, way too long distances.

I could see particle accelerator cannons working fairly well though. Very small projectiles spun to near light-speed, pretty much undetectable.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

why missiles? they can be intercepted/diverted. you either find some way to make lasers a decent weapon or everything else can be dodged or neutralized, thus it's close combat or planet busting with mass drivers.

Lasers still have limited range and lose power over range, so armoured ships will need to be fired at from 100s/1000s of kms.

Anyway, there's a whole site devoted to that stuff:
http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/

The author of the site has teamed up with an ex political/military journalist and here's the result:
http://www.thehumanreach.net/

It's a limited interstellar war series that includes very well researched space combat.

 

[tindrli]

and lasers could be repeled

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

what part of "you either find some way to make lasers a decent weapon" did you miss or not understand?

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

what part of "you either find some way to make lasers a decent weapon" did you miss or not understand?

They are decent weapons with 1000s of kms of range and instant travel time. They just don't have range of millions of kilometers.