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Revisiting VtM: Bloodlines

Wesp5

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,783
Wouldnt it be much much much much much better to just tell your own story instead of rehashing the quite frankly worst part of bloodlines?

As far as I understand the creator EntenSchreck, the idea behind it is to answer some of the questions that Bloodlines left open in the end while at the same time being able to provide new content using many of the original assets, like maps, models, textures and such. Modding Bloodlines is so difficult, that something completely new like another city or time period is pretty much out of the question! Something new using another engine would be a game on it's own and not possible without a WoD license and very much time.
 
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Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
9,854
Same place, couple years before or after. Some events referenced by the people there but otherwise a whole new game as a whole new thing.
Far more interesting and offers more possibilities to both the creators and the player.
 

Goral

Arcane
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The Real Fanboy
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Poland
Far more interesting
You haven't even seen this mod so how can you know that your idea would be more interesting (besides the fact that it's YOUR idea)? It looks worse to me, especially since you didn't present any details just a vague "same place but in the future"... The most important thing is that EntentSchreck and Wesp5 are excited about this project, I doubt it would be the case if they would start doing someone else's idea.
 

Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
9,854
You haven't even seen this mod so how can you know that your idea would be more interesting (besides the fact that it's YOUR idea)? It looks worse to me, especially since you didn't present any details just a vague "same place but in the future"... The most important thing is that EntentSchreck and Wesp5 are excited about this project, I doubt it would be the case if they would start doing someone else's idea.
How do i know that a retread of what we already know will happen is less interesting that something new inspired in what made the game great from people that know exactly what that was? I dont know, common sense probably. Experience too more than likely, but also overall because "you get to see how it actually happened" sounds very boring, especially because it really, really, really does not matter.
 

Wesp5

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,783
Same place, couple years before or after. Some events referenced by the people there but otherwise a whole new game as a whole new thing.

Yeah, please go ahead and create something like this ;)! As far as I know nobody involved in the Prelude even played WoD PnP, so we will stick close to what we learned from Bloodlines instead of making something up which would break canon and probably anger every fan out there even more than Bloodlines itself :). Also the sarcophagus setup will only be the main background story with other stuff going on at the same time...
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,012
Pathfinder: Wrath
A lot of the PnP books were up for grabs at Humble Bundle last week (for 15 bucks), sooo you should've bought them :p
 
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Nov 8, 2007
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The island of misfit mascots
Heh. "The Ming Xiao ending makes no sense! By the end of the game the PC is 0th generation or whatever. There's no way the kuei-jin could ever lay a trap for him in a million years ... unless they managed to scrape up $2700 to buy some good weapons." :cool:

Isn't the PC still alive at the end of the Ming ending? I.e. doesn't he get his coffin weighted down and thrown in the ocean or similar?

I took that as straight confirmation that Ming can't kill him, and she knows it. Hence an ending that implies a combination of subterfuge + not wanting to risk staking him because she's not entirely sure that anything she's got will do the job. It's not a bad ending - it renders the story ironically circular. This is the version of the PC that doesn't simply walk away from all the Kindred sects, he actively goes to war against them, on the side of a mortal enemy. If he ever wakes up (and in the VtM world, buried coffins have a habit of being found...eventually), he's confirmed as hating every single vampiric faction in existence.

I.e. you start out investigating a sacrophogus retrieved from the ocean, that everyone thinks might have some ancient and massively powerful evil, but is actually a hoax...and you end the game being that massively powerful creature, buried in a box at the bottom of the ocean, that someone, someday might make the mistake of opening.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
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Pathfinder: Wrath
In the context of Gehenna being a few years away, that won't happen, but I like it anyway :p
 

Wesp5

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,783
Isn't the PC still alive at the end of the Ming ending? I.e. doesn't he get his coffin weighted down and thrown in the ocean or similar?

Yes, but he is tied to the top of the sarcophagus so as soon as his bonds give in to seawater and corrosion he will be free. BTW, when I swapped the weapons I also improved the background of this scene, as the ocean area looked horribly artificial! I also fixed a cutscene timing and while I was testing this, I noticed that in the scene where Ming says "Farewell" to LaCroix, she is looking directly at the screen instead, implying that you as the player lost the game now because your character will be betrayed. After 10 years patching there are still cool details like this to be found in the game, I can't believe it :)!
 
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Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
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Isn't the PC still alive at the end of the Ming ending? I.e. doesn't he get his coffin weighted down and thrown in the ocean or similar? I took that as straight confirmation that Ming can't kill him, and she knows it. Hence an ending that implies a combination of subterfuge + not wanting to risk staking him because she's not entirely sure that anything she's got will do the job.
Interesting point. According to the rules, are vampires immune to being ... grabbed and tied up? :M
 

iZerw

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Vatnik
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Apr 18, 2012
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895
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Russia
Ever played Arcanum?
Well. It was my third or fourth attempt to finish the game. Always dropped it after the infamous sewers, don't know why. The same thing with Arcanum, the last time I played with high charisma / range build so all the fights were on my companions. If the combat is the worst part of a game I try to avoid it. You can stealth the end-game in Bloodlines, but it's still a slog.
 

Delterius

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Dec 12, 2012
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Entre a serra e o mar.
Ever played Arcanum?
Well. It was my third or fourth attempt to finish the game. Always dropped it after the infamous sewers, don't know why. The same thing with Arcanum, the last time I played with high charisma / range build so all the fights were on my companions. If the combat is the worst part of a game I try to avoid it. You can stealth the end-game in Bloodlines, but it's still a slog.
That's the thing. In respects solely to its Combat, Bloodlines is simply a bad action hack and slash. However, Arcanum is a party based TB RPG with no party control, on top of being pretty much unfinished. Personally, it was more frustrating to have all the options Arcanum give you while it seems even the final boss of the game uses only a first level Necromancy spell at you. At least Bloodlines could get funny with its dumb physics. There's nothing like flying across the room due to the wonky way Celerity works.
 

Wesp5

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,783
In respects solely to its Combat, Bloodlines is simply a bad action hack and slash.

I think that is a matter of taste. I played it with my Toreador like a FPS hybrid and I would bet that Tremere see it differently too :)!
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,012
Pathfinder: Wrath
Taste is something you cultivate, it's not something ingrained in you randomly and in general, and the Truth To End All Truths (tm). I.e. VTMB isn't a good shooter :p If such a thing even exists :p
 
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Wesp5

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,783
Wouldn't you say that its a more simple experience than other, more specialized FPSs?

Yes, Bloodlines maybe isn't the best FPS around, but it's as good as hundreds of others out there and I love it for the story, characters and atmosphere, not the fighting!
 

laclongquan

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Jan 10, 2007
Messages
1,870,153
Location
Searching for my kidnapped sister
Tremere is pretty OP to play:

Bloodshield for defense. Very useful. I usually turn this off because bloody figure onmy screen is terrible.

Blood Strike, that first level Tremere is also useful until end game. hIgher level just seem to increase its damage, so I buy it till the last, but this is one spell I use and majorly demand on my blood stock, not that I consume it for anything else.

I can do it as melee because I like the ninja stealth action. I can do it as shooter. I can do it as Bloodstrike-then-run.

As for the reason to play VTMB, it's one game I can have my nearly nekkid girl creep up to target and backstab them in a japanese theme. Note: I stop melee weapon progress at the wakizashi, and the armor at level 2.
 

Wesp5

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,783
The Sabbat ending mod better work, or I'll come back and fleshcraft you all into MHDs!

What Sabbat ending mod? I added a Sabbat ending in the Unofficial Patch, but honestly it's a rather quick hack because there were not enough assets that would be needed for it...
 

Deleted member 7219

Guest
The Sabbat ending mod better work, or I'll come back and fleshcraft you all into MHDs!

What Sabbat ending mod? I added a Sabbat ending in the Unofficial Patch, but honestly it's a rather quick hack because there were not enough assets that would be needed for it...

Pretty much the only thing you added which I didn't like.

Not being able to be evil and join the Sabbat was a big thing missing for me, but it is understandable given the troubled development of the game.
 

Storyfag

Perfidious Pole
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Stealth Orbital Nuke Control Centre
The Sabbat ending mod better work, or I'll come back and fleshcraft you all into MHDs!

What Sabbat ending mod? I added a Sabbat ending in the Unofficial Patch, but honestly it's a rather quick hack because there were not enough assets that would be needed for it...

I mean precisely yours. It might be half-arsed if the assets are poor, but I *need* it. So it better work! Or you will discover how lenient was Andriei on his servitors!
 

Wesp5

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,783
Pretty much the only thing you added which I didn't like.

Yeah, there just wasn't any good dialogue for Andrei to make this better and I was lucky to merge parts of the other endings at all to get something remotely useful. But I read in an interview that Troika speculated about this and there even was an unused endgame story state so I just had to try ;)! Also I hoped that other mods, like CQM and ATM, which are not bound to only restoring stuff, would take up the idea and expand on in, which I think both of them do at the moment :)!
 

HansDampf

Arcane
Joined
Dec 15, 2015
Messages
1,471
Not a revisit but first time experience. Apologies if my english sounds weird. I thought I'd post this here since I discovered this game only thanks to the Codex and its top 70 RPGs list, which I am/was slowly working my way through. Bloodlines is sitting comfortably at #6, yet, to my shame, I've never really heard much about it before. I remember seeing the cover once in some old german gaming mag; that's it. It rarely seems to pop up in any discussions online or other meaningless "top x of all time" lists. Clearly, I must be frequenting the wrong forums. But the game looked intersting, so GOG + UP9.5 it was.

Well, it delivered! Within the first 2 hours I knew I would play it more than once, despite the obvious flaws, awkward cutscenes and sometimes frustrating combat. Doesn't matter. The last time I've been this obsessed with a game was back in the day with the original Deus Ex, and I'm kinda surprised that a game could still do this to me. Makes me feel like a kid again. It also looks much better than I expected of an old game like this, especially the characters. Had to think of the 3D Fallouts that came 4 years later and use basically the same dialogue system with NPCs staring awkwardly in your face. But while Fallout 3's characters all kinda look the same and expressionless, Bloodlines' characters look alive and colorful.
ciaIPAO.jpg

What is this?


EnzcoE0.jpg

fBbr6Ds.jpg

y099VsH.jpg

pc0OIb7.jpg
You could play this 10 years from now, and they would still look good. Might be the UP polishes them up a bit, but it can't make that much of a difference. Or maybe it does, how would I know?

I'm also digging the lore (had no prior experience with the VtM or WoD or whatever setting). Upholding the Masquerade and managing Humanity and blood isn't particularly challenging. But they serve as a constant reminder that I am in fact a monster and need to feed. Story felt like Game of Thrones with tits and vampires, just on a smaller scale, with the sarcophagus as the overarching MacGuffin. Up until the end I wasn't sure who I could trust and would have preferred to just nope the fuck out of LA. I wasn't convinced by any of the factions. Also loved the cab ride, great atmosphere. There were many good moments, but the one that stood out to me most was in the Asylum: "As I recall, he died with a smile on his face."
...
:hmmm: <- me staring at the screen for about 5 minutes

In my first ending the sarcophagus remained closed, which left me a bit unsatisfied. So I started a new game immediately, spent about 20 hours absorbing Malkavian dialogue and going insane, then opened the damn thing myself. ... I sHoUlD hAvE lIsTeNeD tO tHe VoIcEs iN mY hEaD! They told me there'd be "death" inside. It's a common trope that rumors and myths in game stories always turn out to be true, so I didn't expect this. Also, what a great way to increase replayability! I've never seen insanity, as an optional trait, done like this before. Maybe playing a low INT character in Fallout comes close, but iirc you'd also miss a lot of content.

At that point, I thought I was done with this game. Time to move on to the next... But then some odd case of "post-game depression" kicked in and I had absolutely zero interest in other games. A week later I finally caved in and started a third playthrough as Tremere. Tried to do everything differently, and was surprised at how much dialogue I'd missed before. That was, again, over a week ago, and I still have no desire to move on to other games. Just writing this made me realize, that a Nosferatu playthrough is inevitable.
:mixedemotions:

tl;dr
Game raped me.
Thanks for the top 70 list, I guess.

PS: Best elevator music.
 

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