Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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Research Help: Non-american otaku in the 80/90's.

Discussion in 'jRPG Weeaboo Discussion' started by felipepepe, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. felipepepegender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Codex's Heretic Patron

    felipepepe
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    Click here and disable ads!
    PUTAQUEOPARIU!

    Bros, check this out, I finally found it, the missing link. Mr. Toshio Okada, ex-president of Gainax, released a japan-only book in 2008, titled "Otaku, you're already dead", reviewed here.

    [​IMG]

    I now have a inside-man that shares the same point of view that me, to the point were I can expand his views to the global audience, regarding the aceptance of "ghetto otaku" products. Oh man, how I wish I already knew enough moonrunes to read his book...
     
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  2. Giauz Ragnacockgender: ⚧ Scholar

    Giauz Ragnacock
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    I agree about the homoginization to these idyllic young hero stories being overall a bad thing. If something like the epic of Akira could be produced again I would love more of that (I spent three days pouring over its 2000 some pages only leaving the reading for quick bathroom breaks). Also, 'Osamu Tezuka's Metropolis' by Madhouse is free to watch on YouTube and is an absolutely beautiful example of some of the stories anime can tell.
     
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  3. SCOgender: ⚧ Arcane In My Safe Space

    SCO
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    So this is what it has come to
     
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  4. Gerrardgender: ⚧ Arcane

    Gerrard
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    Sounds to me like he's just "BACK IN MY DAYS" stroking his own dick.
    Hardcore anime for hardcore otaku such as myself!
    :1/5:
     
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  5. felipepepegender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Codex's Heretic Patron

    felipepepe
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    He obviously is, and more than that, he lost the interest in what he was so hardcore about, precisely because he is an early adopter in a market that has reached its maturity and will soon face decline. It's the eternal life product cycle, and it seems that not even all the emperor's horses and all the emperor's marketing team will be able to mend it together; they failed to consolidate it widely, and instead are turning it into a niche thing, a ghetto thing, as Mr. Okada says, that no longer appeals to those that came before.

    What's important to me is not his exact quotes, but what they point to, how they are early signs of trouble in a industry that's too impressed with itself to realize it. Past history shows that they are at the last high point, the next 5-10 years should see something new appearing in the global scenario (perhaps manhwa?) and throwing japanese otakus culture into obscurity, just like Grunge did with Hair/Glam Metal in the early 90's.

    This is a amusing chance to see how a massive, modern global cultural industry handles it's decline, it's marketing history in the making. :D

    SCO's comments on this non-prestigious sub-forum are always most insightfull. :lol:
     
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  6. Gerrardgender: ⚧ Arcane

    Gerrard
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    The problem with the perceived decline of anime I often see is, people act like in the 80s and 90s there were no shitty anime series being made, everything was a masterpiece and a cult classic (and in some cases even said classics aren't even very good in the first place). And the reason behind that is most often them not being alive during that time. I'm pretty sure in 10 years nobody will remember the generic fanservice anime #23876 that aired this summer either.

    Although with the appearance in recent years of TV series that are blatant softcore porn (shit like Qwaser) we're definitely going downhill, it's nowhere near as bad as self-proclaimed oldfags want people to believe.

    Anime will not die anytime soon, unless you already consider it dead. But in that case, it was never alive to begin with.
     
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  7. felipepepegender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Codex's Heretic Patron

    felipepepe
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    Using quality as a standard for analysis on a cultural product is absurd, trying to scientifically debate if Saint Seiya is better than Naruto is personal, subjective and pointless. I do it as a marketing graduate that lost his soul to Kotler years ago, I only see THE MARKET. And THE MARKET gods are displeased with otakus.

    Not only Dragon Ball Z and Yu Yu Hakusho were on Tv, but stuff like Sailor Moon or Magic Knights of Rayearth went on air on open Tv in the 90's and regular people watched it, you didn't have to be an otaku or anything. Now even watching the most popular things like Naruto or Bleach stains you as a otaku, created prejudice & rejection. It failed to become a thing on it's own, the most cliche aspects of the culture overcame it and became the culture itself. No one cares if you say you only watch Seinen stuff and hate ecchi, they don't even know what that is, they only see you watching anime and relate that to retarded hairs, moes and panty shots. Fans may be happy with all their sub-genres and never seen before number of otaku products, but the outside world is tired of all that; THE MARKET doesn't accept it anymore. It's devolving into a niche, a bloody ghetto, alien and hostlie to the outside world.

    And once Bleach, Naruto and One Piece fade away, THE MARKET will find something else to replace it; the show must go on, there are toys to be sold to kids and reprising Squarepants Bob is getting tiresome.
     
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  8. Gerrardgender: ⚧ Arcane

    Gerrard
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    I don't know any "regular people" who watched any of those shows, and have a hard time imagining any doing so. Much like I can imagine "regular people" watching The Simpsons, but not some new shitty Cartoon Network show.
    "Regular people" watch stuff like Doraemon or Shin-chan, which you could consider fairly detached from typical western definition of today's (and yesterday's too) anime. Out of the "Big 3" only One Piece is still seen in the TV rankings.

    Once Bleach, Naruto and One Piece fade away they will be replaced by some other shitty, neverending series.
     
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  9. felipepepegender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Codex's Heretic Patron

    felipepepe
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    Sailor Moon was aired here together with Saint Seiya & Dragon Ball on open tv and got a MASSIVE fanbase. It aired for years, and in 2009 there was a succesfull fan petition to put it back on tv, and not only they aired it again, but it's STILL being aired.
     
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  10. I'm With Her Vaarna_Aarnegender: ⚧ for prison Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

    Vaarna_Aarne
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    @felipepe I thought I'd provide you with another parallel with mainstream comics, this time of the mainstream fans completely missing the point the creator tried to make and promptly getting a "get the fuck away from me, freaks" reaction from said creator.

    I briefly have to break my promise to lay this out, but the two things in question are perhaps the closest parallel to each other, both representing the artistic apex of their own field, dealing with similar ideals and having similar creator thoughts behind them. So, it's a brief visit back to Evangelion, before getting to the meat of it, being the parallel with Watchmen, it's companion in nihilistic deconstruction. The parallel this time is with the whole ZOMGTEHREI phenomenon, meaning the fanbase obsession with Rei, particularly romantic obsession, and how Anno proceeded to essentially comment that are the perverts going to love dolls resembling their mother's and devoid of character, or a real human being (naturally referring to Asuka here in the Shinji context).

    The parallel here is with Alan Moore's character, Rorschach. Anyone who's read the comic knows that the character is a delusional psychotic who lives in a childlike world of black and white morality viewed through his distorted mindscape. Needless to say, when faced with an outsider completely alienated with humanity (due to having a rough life right from childhood), but possessing uncompromising mindset and violent exploits against grimy underworld in defiance of The Man while wearing a cool mask and costume (a very romantic subject for the audience no doubt); nerds fell in love with the character and thought he was a positive hero figure instead of a very dangerous and very disturbed person.

    This in turn leads us to a very similar, but more specific reaction of the creator being confronted with the inanity of the mainstream fan. Alan Moore once, during the period when he still went to conventions, encountered a fan who went to tell him how impressed he was with Watchmen and how he totally identified with Rorschach. Alan Moore, to quote, told him "alright, stay the fuck away from me." It was one of the many reasons why Alan Moore refuses to go to conventions these days, and didn't openly interact with fans until his recent online live public interview/questionnaire/presentation.


    It's a very interesting insight into the mind of the fanboy, and can certaintly serve as an example of the same shit happening elsewhere in your work.
     
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  11. damicoregender: ⚧ Scholar

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    Is this really an insight of the mind of the fanboy or is it about may be the writer not being able to carry their message in the right way? I have never heard of this character but I've always never read watchmen (Although I've been meaning to do so for quite a long time) so I don't really know.

    I for one know that I hate Evangelion's fanbase, that's for sure though. And I know they're mostly retards but Eva is partly to blame on that one because of the fanservice. Even if it was not much, it was there.

    I think on these issues there is a communication problem from both sides.
     
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  12. I'm With Her Vaarna_Aarnegender: ⚧ for prison Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

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    Nope, it's definately a problem on the part of the fanbase. If you feel personal connection to a man who graphically murders people and inflicts serious injuries regularly, not to mention is so insane his speech patterns are fucked up (Rorschach drops every word he finds "unnecessary" when he writes or talks). Hell, he even reads /gd/ quality right-wing extremist newspaper! It's like I said, nerds just get romantic when someone tells stuff like "never compromise" or "because there is good and there is evil, and evil must be punished" and then horribly beats up criminals.

    Of course, it's a bit more complex than that, but the character was never meant to be someone you'd consider for idolizing or identifying with when you're a fairly normal person.
     
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  13. felipepepegender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Codex's Heretic Patron

    felipepepe
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    It's an old dillema, Coppola is probably still pissed at how the only thing people remenber from Apocalypse Now is that was a AWESHUM war movie with that AWESHUM ride of the valkyries scene. And he was waaaay less subtle than Eva or Watchmen are, but people never care for the darkness inside mens heart, only for how bloody cool was that helicopter scene.
     
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  14. I'm With Her Vaarna_Aarnegender: ⚧ for prison Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

    Vaarna_Aarne
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    Yep, that's generally how things turn out for artists of all sorts.
     
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  15. Habagender: ⚧ Harbinger of Decline Patron

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    http://translate.google.com/transla...roon__miten_anime_hivuttautui_suomeen/6291473

    TL;DR

    Artsy indie movie festivals -> obscure VHS releases -> some big screen releases for blockbuster movies ... -> weaboos emerge
    <== VHS fansubs ===============================================> <== Internet fansubs==>

    Anime was extremely obscure well into 2000, where Internet then finally enabled widespread distribution. Around those parts we did see some anime on TV, but majority of the viewers didn't realize that it was Japanese, or that it could be called "anime". So brainwashing with dubbed children's cartoons enabled full blown animefaggotry at older age. Probably has to do with cultural similarity as well - several areas such as concept of "losing face" and clear distinction of private/public life spheres. Similar, yet alien.
     
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  16. I'm With Her Vaarna_Aarnegender: ⚧ for prison Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

    Vaarna_Aarne
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    Indeed, I think you shouldn't underestimate the importance that widespread cable internet that started emerging in the 2000's had for the phenomenon. It eliminated an important weakness:

    Waiting times.
     
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  17. felipepepegender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Codex's Heretic Patron

    felipepepe
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    Ironically, internet not only broaden the reach and audience of the otaku culture, but also played important role in turning then into "ghettos"... before finding a guy that enjoyed anime and had ANY VHS to share was great, you would talk with the bro and watch his tape, even if it was a anime you never heard about. They would make those sci-fi/anime/manga clubs, even here in Brazil there was small communities where every kind of people gathered to talk & watch some anime.

    Now, you can have whole websites & communities devoted only to obscure sub-genres, where otaku will only talk to those with the same tastes & interests. It obviously helps to narrow-mind people. Even here in the Codex you'll see people doing things like bashing Dark Souls because "it's not a TR00 RPG", saying that discussing it has no place here. In a more obsessed otaku community, that is taken to a whole new level, especially since (unlike us) they have a MASSIVE ammount of products being tailor-made to their tastes... I mean, just look at the biodrones. :roll:
     
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  18. Make America Great Again WhiskeyWolfgender: ⚧ RPG Codex Polish Car Thief Patron

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    Someone bitching on the Codex about a game not being a RPG, well I never.
     
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  19. I'm With Her Vaarna_Aarnegender: ⚧ for prison Notorious Internet Vandal Patron

    Vaarna_Aarne
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    Good observation, it does ferment an "us vs them" mentality on all levels.

    Fixed.
     
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  20. felipepepegender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Codex's Heretic Patron

    felipepepe
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    Makes you wonder how common are "DEFINE MOE!" kind of arguments in those otaku forums. :lol:
     
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  21. Make America Great Again Hiratogender: ⚧ Purse-Owner Patron

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    And apparently I managed to nail it back in january. \o/

     
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  22. felipepepegender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Codex's Heretic Patron

    felipepepe
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    :lol:

    That's why you're such a bro Hirato. But such analysis are so easier from the outside, I wonder if there are heated debates like:

    - Oh, X is best moe char ever, she's ma waifu!
    - I prefer Y, so cute! ^_^
    - Y IS NOT A MOE, YOU RETARD! ばか!
    - YES SHE IS, IN EP 43 (EXTENDED CUT) SHE CRIES, SO SHE IS A MOE!
    - SHINJI CRIES ALL THE TIME, IS HE YOUR FAVORITE MOE TOO?
    ad infinitum.
     
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  23. Gerrardgender: ⚧ Arcane

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    The best way to describe moe is to use Bruce Lee's words
    "Don't think. Feel!"

    I'd say it's probably less common than "What is an RPG?", since there isn't much to argue about.
     
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  24. Make America Great Again Hiratogender: ⚧ Purse-Owner Patron

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    It wouldn't surprise me if they looked at us with a similar perspective.

    - Look at those losers, they can't even decide what an RPG is! wwww
    - Yeah, it stands for Regal Paraphernalia Game and they're all about dressing up your characters in cute outfits. www
    - What the heck is a "Role Playing Game"?!
    - Isn't that like one of those games in which you play a role?

    TL note: w == lol


    And there was something else I wanted to bring up, but it slipped my mind, dammit.
     
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  25. felipepepegender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Codex's Heretic Patron

    felipepepe
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    I dared to google "shinji+moe", it took me places I was not ready to go.
     
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