Research Help: Non-american otaku in the 80/90's.

[Gragt]

It's just that Evangelion needs its own threads else the current discussion gets fucked up.

 

[felipepepe]

I love Evangelion but that's it I'm outta here.

God has forsaken this thread.

Alright, I pinky-swear not to post about Evangelion in this topic anymore. I wasn't the one who brought up the subject!

Ok, mea culpa, let's rail back.

Was there anywhere you guys used to read about anime? Here in Brazil we got TONS of very short magazines about anime & comics in the 90's, while the regular press didn't say anything about it besides "Anime are destroying the youth" and the likes...

(lol at Dragon BAll AF magazine)

Not to mention we had a national manga, Holy Avenger, a Forgotten Realms meets Slayers story that was published by our local Dragon RPG magazine... it lasted for 4 years, got a quite big cult following, a soundtrack CD, and even some books to be used as RPG setting with Open D20.

And since 2008 we have a very weird thing, our local comics "Turma do Mônica", that runs since the 60's, got a new "manga version", that has been breaking sales records in a very scary way...

The original author was bro with Osamu Tezuka, he even got to use Astroboy & Kimba cameos in the new comics. The other countless anime/manga/jRPG references like Sephiroth above are not that legit...

Anything like that in your countries? I ask not only as curiosity, but a well done anime magazine in the 90's could provide some nice info & quotes for me.

 

[Gragt]

I remember that in France and Belgium there was the official magazine of the Club Dorothée — I told you they were everywhere — that covered the anime they showed among other things. I'm not sure about other press as I didn't follow it at the time but I wouldn't be surprised that other magazines that were dedicated to manga and anime started to appear given how popular the subject was. I know that video game rags started to cover the otaku culture and some even started to carry a small booklet where they reviewed that sort of stuff. That also included hentai and they were quite happy to publish pictures in the same booklet, which helped parents to think that these Japs were not only violent to show Hokuto no Ken to children but also masters in the art of perversion for peddling pr0n to kids and promoting rape.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

I think I still have my Herói collection in the garage. Whenever they didn't have anything new to talk about they just slapped something about Saint Seiya on the cover, and it sold like hotcakes anyway.

Ceufiroth is genius and anyone who disagrees is out of my brolist forever. I don't think the target public is gonna catch it, though...my nephew reads the series and there's some stuff there that even I struggle to notice sometimes (I think I saw a Mazinger Z reference in one issue).

edit:

 

[felipepepe]

Whenever they didn't have anything new to talk about they just slapped something about Saint Seiya on the cover, and it sold like hotcakes anyway.

Not to mention those pointless bios & stuff, like learning Hyoga height, birthday, blood type and favorite foods...

Ceufiroth is genius and anyone who disagrees is out of my brolist forever. I don't think the target public is gonna catch it, though...my nephew reads the series and there's some stuff there that even I struggle to notice sometimes (I think I saw a Mazinger Z reference in one issue).

While I don't personally like the authors in Monica Jovem (they are douches), the stories are nice. I feel that they somehow managed to make the comics some kind of 80/90's tour... new kids get to taste fun things they missed and oldfags like us laught at Ceufiroti and other nonsense, remebering the "good old days".

Even the regular Turma da Monica has improved, some years ago they were just doing short & boring stories or redoing old ones, but they now do a very modern kind of humour that went well with the series, like trolling Xaveco. Funny how a 50 years old comic about regular kids playing can last so long and still be amusing.

 

[Tehdagah]

(...)

You forgot the "great" Megaman manga

Victory was also nice and gave me massive boners.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

I *think* there's a magazine dedicated to manga and anime nowadays (titled "Anime-Lehti" in highly original fashion, the name meaning Anime Magazine). It started coming out during the big boom that started in 2003. Never read it.

 

[felipepepe]

(...)

You forgot the "great" Megaman manga

Oh yeah, we had fanzines that were published and sold regularly... very disturbing stuff. BTW, while searching for that I came across this:

Seems like Brazil now has it's on "JUMP" Magazine, montlhy releasing BR mangás. Have to say I find that interesting, but I fear that all of them will be cliches ripoffs... who knows, may turn out something.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

That's actually an even more interesting thing, how the Western otakus aspiring to become manga artists are even worse when it comes to the cliche circlejerk.

EDIT: Particularly when noting that the Western equivalent of this, the British Invasion of American comics, had the exact opposite effect with said writers from the UK making comic books an artform accepted by the general public.

 

[felipepepe]

That comes from british being all british and stuff, they are used to be like the anti-america.

While it would be nice if BR Manga could somehow invade Japan and save then from circlejerking, they'll probably circlejerk even more, as you said. Which is sad, I think Latina America has a unique talent for slice of life humour, from Turma da Mônica to Chavo del 8, you have these stories about regular people doing regular stuff without ever resorting to american sitcom smugness... but just from that cover you can tell it's gonna be all about fighting shit and being the best...

 

[felipepepe]

@Vaarne_Aarne, since you're pretty informed about this, western comics went throught something like this at one point? Like in the 90's, with all those retarded character designs & Rob Liefeld-ish vibe going on? You think there's a parallel or something?

 

[Hirato]

I'm sure Australia has a few dedicated magazines, though I never looked, since I never cared.

But one thing they do here in Australia, is bundle these "free" little magazines with the DVDs.
I have a few of those, but I've never opened one, until now.
And holy shit are these tailored to sell, sell, and sell! That last page especially; A ready-made shopping list for deranged western otaku.

I'll try and scan these tomorrow morning for our collective amusement.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

@Vaarne_Aarne, since you're pretty informed about this, western comics went throught something like this at one point? Like in the 90's, with all those retarded character designs & Rob Liefeld-ish vibe going on? You think there's a parallel or something?

Actually a better way to describe the Dark Age of Comics would be that it was the artists/Americans reconquest (so to speak) of American comics from all those pesky fancy foreigners. It's the AWESOME button and all that jazz way before it ever got to gaming.

 

[Hirato]

I'll try and scan these tomorrow morning for our collective amusement.

As promised, here they are, 150 DPI scans; higher qualities resulted in too high a filesize for my liking.
Enjoy felipepepe
I feel like one of those guys who get the "scanlators" raws!

Spoiler

Note, of those TV channels, ABC2 is the only public broadcast, the rest (Cartoon Network, Boomerang, etc) are subscription networks like "Foxtel."
Not that I watch TV anyway...

A complementary late October 2008 magazine; Most of the items here have 2004/2005/2006 copyright dates.
Should give you a hint about how far behind the local anime around here is.

By now you've probably started to notice that this is almost pure advertisement.

Buy, buy, buy!

The much vaunted shopping list on the right.

 

[felipepepe]

Thanks for your trouble Hirato.

By now you've probably started to notice that this is almost pure advertisement.

Yeah, they are not too far from "game journalists", except they have the dignity of not calling thenselves "anime journalists"... and I honestly like how there are no "reviews", it something that woudn't fit the medium.

 

[RK47]

This thread is NSFW.

 

[RK47]

Was Doraemon popular? All the bloody books I read keep saying that Doreamon failed in the US because "it was too japanese for any other culture"...

Shame for the US then. Doraemon here is popular enough to be aired even nowadays. The bloody cat never dies (too bad the writer did die before finishing the series )

QFT.
This cat, somehow survived in Sunday Primetime slot on the same TV station for over a decade in indonesia. 8 AM Sunday. Always the same theme song, the same dubbers.
I grew up with it and it's pretty innocent, but has some stupid 'anime' moments where the protag would always walk into the girl having a shower. A theme that is all too common nowadays.

 

[Hirato]

I grew up with it and it's pretty innocent, but has some stupid 'anime' moments where the protag would always walk into the girl having a shower. A theme that is all too common nowadays.

 

[Bruma Hobo]

In Argentina, many japanese cartoons were being shown alongside american cartoons like Animaniacs and X-Men (and of course El Chavo del ocho, everyday at 12 :D ). I remember stuff like Captain Tsubasa, Slayers, Mazinger Z, Gatchaman (USA version), Heidi, Voltron (USA version), BT'X, Magic Knight Rayearth, Ruroni Kenshin (aka Samurai X) and Slam Dunk. There were mostly kids shows before 2000.

By far the most popular were:
Robotech, the awesome kwan edition of Macross, Southern Cross and MOSPEADA, in 1987.
Los Caballeros del Zodíaco (Saint Seiya) in 1995, mostly without changes.
Sailor Moon in 1996.
Dragon Ball in 1996, mostly without changes (including Goku's balls).
Ranma 1/2 in 1999, mostly without changes (including Ranma's tits).
And the shitty kwan version of Pokémon in 1999.

In 2000-2001 we suddenly got The Vision of Escaflowne, Evangelion, Cowboy Bebop, Detective Conan (Meitantei Conan), Patlabor, Orphen, Digimon, Dr Slump, Crayon Shin-Chan, Cliffhanger (Lupin III), Those Who Hunt Elves, Bubblegum Crisis 2040, You're under arrest, Ghost Sweeper Mikami and so much more... I think that was the last anime boom, after that there was only

 

[felipepepe]

All this info makes my work seem much more important, but also kind of intimidating, especially at this stage. Once I manage to get the scholarship and move to Tokyo, with 2 years to fully dedicate to study and a university & supervisor backup, I will have the time and resources to check & consider everything; but now, as a HUEHUE BR trying to write a 6-page paper to impress the Japan Embassy, I'm kind of lost in how to approach this, hoe tp question american academics without looking like a arrogant brat...

In Argentina, many japanese cartoons were being shown alongside american cartoons like Animaniacs and X-Men (and of course El Chavo del ocho, everyday at 12 :D ).

Same here, incluiding El Chavo, that is STILL ON!

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Oh yea, just remembered, SubTV also aired Magic Knight Rayearth and Sailor Moon (this one in Swedish, for some mysterious reason) when they started airing Dragon Ball Z.


(Incidentally, they too had the classic case of "fuck we don't have the rights to the rest of the series", so DBZ started over for three times I think)

 

[Kattze]

Oh yea, just remembered, SubTV also aired Magic Knight Rayearth and Sailor Moon (this one in Swedish, for some mysterious reason) when they started airing Dragon Ball Z.


(Incidentally, they too had the classic case of "fuck we don't have the rights to the rest of the series", so DBZ started over for three times I think)

I remembered liking that show.

 

[Giauz Ragnacock]

Locomotion was fantastic, it aired in Brazil too. It was such a magical & weird channel...not only the ads were completly retarded or just 2 minutes of weird eletronic music, but it also It was randomly in portuguese/spanish... and had unforgettable things like this disturbing ad:



How can anyone watch this and then go to Naruto & Bleach is beyond me...

Also, damicore, Captain Tsubasa had all those brazilian places & teams there too, or they replaced it?

I don't mean to intrude but Naruto and Evangelion are two of my favorite anime. Add to that Gantz, Death Note (possibly my pick for most addicting), and the awesome Claymore. The only factor I can find in common between Naruto and the rest is this feeling of suspense I sometimes get. I can tell I'm completely geeking out over something when I get this prickly feeling on the top of my scalp like all my hair is standing up. If I have come to this point, I'm pretty much hooked to the end unless they really screw up like Bleach did 'cause screw Ichigo and his promiscuous mother, too!

 

[felipepepe]

Ban Giauz Ragnacock

Honestly, my issue is not as much with the Naruto, Bleach & One Piece power trio as with the rest of all the industry just trying to copy & sell that model. While before we had many succesfull animes, from all genres and art styles, seems now we get shonen clichê as omnipresent gods, and the few unique stuff is so far away that few people will ever know about it...

 

[felipepepe]

PUTAQUEOPARIU!

Bros, check this out, I finally found it, the missing link. Mr. Toshio Okada, ex-president of Gainax, released a japan-only book in 2008, titled "Otaku, you're already dead", reviewed here.

He portrays the rise and fall of Japan's otaku in three stages. The first generation are called "otaku aristocrats" -- early adopters from the late Seventies and early Eighties who felt the need to proselytize and convert their friends to the lifestyle. This sense of noblesse oblige eventually gave rise to the second generation of "otaku elite" from the late Eighties through the late Nineties, who spurned and scorned anyone without the good sense to share their taste in entertainment. And finally, this self-centered attitude reached its apex in the current generation of "moé-otaku," purveyors and consumers of anime, comics, and video games that feature infantile female characters instead of plotlines.

Okada takes the current generation of otaku to task for continuing to "ghettoize" themselves, retreating ever-deeper into individual virtual worlds when they encounter any sort of resistance to their interests. Where's the sense of pride, of camraderie? he wonders. He decries their inward focus, their passivity, their apparent lack of desire to learn about or interact with subcultures outside of their own tiny worldviews. (The last is a hallmark difference, at least in Okada's idealized view, between the moe-otaku and traditional old-school otaku, who actually forced themselves to partake of genres or titles they didn't particularly like in order to broaden their horizons.)

I now have a inside-man that shares the same point of view that me, to the point were I can expand his views to the global audience, regarding the aceptance of "ghetto otaku" products. Oh man, how I wish I already knew enough moonrunes to read his book...