Research Help: Non-american otaku in the 80/90's.

[treave]

I have access to Chinese subs/dubs and translations for manga and anime, so pretty much we got all of the Japanese mainstream stuff (Dragonball, Sailor Moon etc) and plenty of the less known things, if you know where to look. Anime could usually be found from VHS rental shops, while translated manga are found in most bookshops. It's been like that since at least the late 80s - early 90s over here. Speed-wise they were usually about a week to a month behind the original Japanese releases. And no, there were no edits.

I would think this should apply to Asian countries like Hong Kong, Taiwan, Malaysia and Singapore, in particular.

edit: Whether most of the stuff I watched/read was officially licensed or not... well, I have no idea. Of course things are different in the post-Naruto world. VHS went out of fashion, for one.

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

Bro, who could forget all the old anime aired on Polonia 1? Daimos for instance or Yatterman. Granted it wasn't particularly ambitious and didn't spawn otakus but whatever. An actual "fandom" formed after Polsat aired Sailor Moon in the late 90s, around 1997 I believe. Sometime after its success the major (and pretty much only, bar some short lived spin-offs which didn't last 3 issues) magazine dealing with the subject "Kawaii" started publishing. Later you had Saint Seiya, Dr. Slump, Dragon Ball on RTL7 and Pokemon airing on Polsat at the turn of the century, between 1999-2002. Dragon Ball in particular attracted lots of new people to anime in Potatoland. Canal+ was occasionally airing some series late in the night like Aria, but the people who actually had canal+ at the time were few and far between. That series also got later aired on Hyper (when that channel was created, around 2002 I think) and they aired Cowboy Bebop soon afterwards.

You also had Slayers on RTL7/TVN7 as TVN bought them out some time after that. Which marked pretty much the end of quality (read not kids-targeted often merchandise machine shows like beyblade or whatever) anime on TV bar what Hyper airs to this day, the new management had a different vision for TVN7. Some time after that "Kawaii" stopped being published marking the end of an era. But that didn't matter as the fandom was slowly moving online with the advent of DSL (spawning the infamous "children of Neo" - from "Neostrada" the first DSL service in potatoland, but that's a different topic) and they would just download/import shit online.

Also gaming culture, particularly jRPGs on the PSone, drew a bunch of people into anime some time after 1997 when that conole became popular (mostly due to the ease of pirating games). After FF7 naturally.

Damn, how could I forget Polonia 1. Now that you jogged my memory I remember watching Yatterman on it, they were mostly importing their stuff from Italy which was dubbed and sounded funny with a Polish lector, additionally it was mostly shows for the younger audience.

RTLII and PRO7 (both German channels unlike RTL7 which was Polish and as the first one started airing Dragon Ball, it was big back then, I still have something like a 1000 collectible cards lying in my basement) were the two main platforms for me, on them I watched:
- Sailor Moon
- Cat's Eye
- Captain Tsubasa
- La Seine no Hoshi
... and many other which elude my stale useless memory right now.

And yes, Hyper launched in 2002, their first anime was IRIA.

 

[Hellraiser]

Yeah, the Germans aired a lot of Anime on those channels, I remember that DBZ and Ranma 1/2 also aired on RTL2 IIRC along with the obligatory Pokemon.

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

Yeah, the Germans aired a lot of Anime on those channels, I remember that DBZ and Ranma 1/2 also aired on RTL2 IIRC along with the obligatory Pokemon.

Yeah...
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_von_RTL-II-Sendungen
I can't find some of the titles on that list or the less detailed ProSieben list so there had to be another channel I'm forgetting.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

While on the subject of dubbing, I think it bears mention that despite us Finns being very eager to flaunt our high-quality Disney dubs (a few being better than originals, with Vesa-Matti Loiri utterly demolishing Robin Williams as the Genie), our anime dubs were quite horrible (as were several other dubs). Nowadays they live on as internets injokes for Finns. On the subject of Ginga Nagareboshi Gin (incidentally the Finnish name for it is Hopeanuoli, translates to Silver Arrow), here's some:



(The name of the video is "Finndub diamonds")

That's exactly the point I wanna go after in my thesis, how pre-2000's it was a universal kind of cartoon, that handled many subjects and pleased many audiences, from having soccer anime in brazil with Captain Tsubasa to northen-europe only Ginga Nagareboshi Gin; anime had something to offer to everyone, proved by how every country had different popular anime, with few exceptions.

But since the 2000's it became a thing on it's own, the hardcore otaku appeared, the circlejerking begun. The audience is clearly more devoted and more loud, but also way smaller... you can't have "casuals" anymore, a guy that just likes to watch Hokuto no Ken or DBZ, it became such a extreme thing that it's either loved or despised, he may abandon anime due prejudice/shame/disgust. Every country is getting the same dumbed down Jump anime, that all feel like a cheap copy of Dragon Ball.

Even worse, while the artists of the past managed to write things that would please people from all over the world, modern artists are mostly 20-year old tokyo otaku with no life experience besides being an otaku, so all they can write about are stuff for otaku... so instead of trying more universal stuff, you get stuff like Welcome to NHK & Sword Arts Online... instead of a Ken from Hokuto no Ken or Guts from Berserk, we get kids with more and more retarded haircuts & weapons...

Same for jRPGs, Final Fantasy now is about a lolita recruiting monsters and dressing then up, because that's what otaku likes and fuck the rest.

Well, you could say that it's a combination of circlejerk and the total absence of any kind of ambition or desire to try new things.

Or more accurately, there's such an overabundant market now that everything but a few things are under constant threat of simply drowning in the seething mass of otaku circlejerk.

 

[Shadenuat]

Chronologically it was something like this for me:
- My dad visits some sort of technological conference where he sees something, I can only guess, from Tezuka's works on screen. It's probably around 80's. He gets interested. Meanwhile, in USSR cinemas people watch Flying Phantom Ship.
- With fall of USSR, shit hits the fan and consumption of foreign goods grows dramatically. Private businessmen find a golden mine by learning english and chinese and start making trips to countries where they can buy cheap modern goods which have high popularity in Russia. One of the favorite trips is to Taiwan, for example (oh my god, the fucking taiwan female underwear lol). All this stuff ends up at open markets which are barely legal. People get their hands on VHC, and start recording shit they bought there using VHC tapes. This stuff is passed from one person to another.
- Early 90's. Robotech and Sailor Moon are on TV already, supported by pretty huge amount of pirated movies. I'm just at juniour school, I sit in front of SONY TV trying all the VHC tapes there are, even hidden from me by caring parents. Oh, how little they knew And here's the things I watched without any particular order at time (from age 7 to 14): Lupin, Macross, Mermaid Forest, La Blue Girl, Dragon Pink + Elven Bride on same VHC, Hi No To Ri 2772, Nausicaa, Iria: Zeiram, Bubblegum Crisis, Dominion: Tank Police, Genocyber, Battleship Yamato, Maya, Candy Candy, Galaxy Express, Legend of the Four Kings, Demonhunter Yohko, Crying Freeman, ...well I think you get the idea, there were movies that were allowed for us kids to watch, and movies which were hidden, but we still watched them So unlike moonies or robotechies I had a very broad view on what had been offered to us by Japan.
The russian dub was... well, from terrible to very decent. For example, Hi No To Ri and Nausicaa were dubbed, imo, better than their official DVD releases today.
This is probably why a distaste for "new stuff" started to slowly grow on me before I even hit 20, because when you watch fucking Bubblegum Crisis or Zeiram, and then watch Evangelion when it happens, your view of what is really cool hurts your perception of new. So I already was a snob even before CD era, and cried the decline when harem echi became the most watchable anime between my friends.
I actually started to try and "cure" my schoolmates from sailor moon phobia and later, from just bad taste, by passing my tapes to them, oh, the lolz from their parents and teachers later.

Oh, and then FIDO happened. I believe my father used it to contact old animu fans. When I got my 56K, which was around Diablo 2 release, I started to spend my lunch money by buying anime. I contacted pirates and met them at subway stations or on markets and asked them to make VHCes for me with stuff they did't have at their regular stock, for example. I bought things like Evangelion, Escaflowne and Outlaw Star that way. That's late 90's-2000.
2003 and later it's already legal distribution.

 

[Sul]

Fuck you felipepepe, making me remember all the good stuff that we had on TV. I even have an action figure of Shurato that I gained on my 8th birthday, missing an arm I think.
Good VA, pt-br opening made by local bands... It's amazing how much effort they used to put on localization. All that on the 90s before otaku ferver began.

 

[Shadenuat]

Obviously it's VHS not VHC screw editing time.

 

[damicore]

Here in Argentina we had a lot of animu in the 90's and early 2000's.

I was born in 1989 and the first anime series I remember is from 1993-4. It was UFO Robot Grendizer but it was dubbed as "Duke Fleed's Adventures". I always assumed this was, strangely, a US severed version.
Then we got Saint Seiya ('95), the uncut version with a hilarious Spanish intro, which was awesome and not much longer after that the original Dragon Ball came in and everything exploded (96') (There was a failed attempt at broadcasting Dragon Ball in 1994 in a different signal though). Anime started comming in a local cable signal called Magic Kids which around 97 started a TV show about anime culture, "El Club del Anime"; they would broadcast several anime episodes of a single series along with reviews on japanese anime and some japanese culture and then the occassional Opening or Ending for a not so well known japanese show in its original japanese glory!
We got Bt' X from Kurumada, Meitantei Conan up to may be episode 100, Pokemon which I never liked, escaflowne, Slam Dunk (this was may be in 2000), Ranma 1/2, Robotech (not Macross), Captain Tsubaza, slayers, sailor moon, and a bunch of others.
All of this in Magic kids, an Argentinean Cable Channel that would also broadcast shows like bikman's world, El Chavo del Ocho, and Biker Mice from Mars.

Although the superior signal was Locomotion which was way more geared towards young people, I got this signal around 98' and it was, along with I.Sat the best cable signal I've ever seen although it exploded in early 2000 with Eva. There were western shows like The Critic, Duckman, Dr. Katz (awesome awesome comedy), The Head and South Park along with Evangelion, Saber Marionette, SM J and SM J to X, The Red Baron (corny mecha show) and Gatchaman (pre 2000), Lain, Eatman and Eatman 98', Cowboy Bebop, Cybuster, Those who hunt elves, Boogiepop Phantom
It also broadcasted a considerable ammount of movies (Akira, Ghost in the Shell, etc) OAVs and short japanese animations (Onkyou seimeitai Noiseman being the one I have the most fond memories of).
Then, Around 2003 Locomotion started airing Some ecchi shows like Aika and Sakura Mail.
In the end around 2006 The Channel got bought by sony and turned into Animax which I hated.

CN also had its fair share of anime mostly during 99-2002. Rurouni kenshin being the best show they ever aired in my opinion. There was a re-realease of Saint Seiya and Dragon Ball among many other things.

We also had fox kids with a couple of animes (Digimon, Shaman King, Medabots, etc) but mostly from 99 onwards.

Finally here are some wikipedia lists:

animes broadcasted by Magic Kids:
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Kids#Anime

Shows Broadcasted by Locomotion in chronological order:
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locomotion#Cronolog.C3.ADa

Animes broadcasted by locomotion until the time of its death:
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locomotion#Anime

It is my understanding that the founding of the most retarded Otaku Fandom began with the death of Locomotion and the surge of broadband internet around 2004, at least in Argentina.

 

[felipepepe]

Locomotion was fantastic, it aired in Brazil too. It was such a magical & weird channel...not only the ads were completly retarded or just 2 minutes of weird eletronic music, but it also It was randomly in portuguese/spanish... and had unforgettable things like this disturbing ad:



How can anyone watch this and then go to Naruto & Bleach is beyond me...

Also, damicore, Captain Tsubasa had all those brazilian places & teams there too, or they replaced it?

 

[damicore]

Locomotion was fantastic, it aired in Brazil too. It was such a magical & weird channel...not only the ads were completly retarded or just 2 minutes of weird eletronic music, but it also It was randomly in portuguese/spanish... and had unforgettable things like this disturbing ad:



How can anyone watch this and then go to Naruto & Bleach is beyond me...

Also, damicore, Captain Tsubasa had all those brazilian places & teams there too, or they replaced it?

That ad was fucking awesome! It still gives me goosebumps .

My mind on captain tsubasa is a tad fuzzy but as far as I remember the coach was brazilian (he was called Carlos or something here). I never watched anything beyond the original Captain Tsubasa though.
From what I can gather, Captain Tsubasa, when the kids were still in elementary school, transpired completely in japan.

Did you get Let's Dance with Papa over there too felipepepe ?

 

[damicore]

Also, pertaining to Saint Seiya:

 

[felipepepe]

Did you get Let's Dance with Papa over there too felipepepe ?

Our Locomotion was exactly like yours I think, that's why most of the time it was in spanish even...

R.I.P. Shiryu.
(at least until the next 5 ressurections)

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

I just remembered some other stuff. One of the German music stations VIVA or MTV, in the late '90/early '00 had a tendency to occasionally show late at night movies which belong to the more violent sort. It was generally a hit and miss endeavor because for shit like "Angels Sanctuary" and "X - The Movie" one month then next one we would get "Ghost In The Shell" and "Blue Submarine Nr.6".

And let me tell you, that short moment in the later part of Blue Submarine Nr.6 when that female Commander and her crew drown on the bridge of their submarine freaked me out more then all the ridiculous killing in X.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

How can anyone watch this and then go to Naruto & Bleach is beyond me...

The same reason why I'm pretty sure Anno is secretly planning on building a giant neon-lighted middle finger on Mt Fuji:

Like with Watchmen, most people (including other creators) missed the point by several continents. This is actually the most bizarrely specific parallel, since like Watchmen Evangelion is also a psychologically structured deconstruction of a popular low-brow genre that achieves immense recognition and praise for the things it does, and then everyone concludes that it was all due to things that it was never about.

*snip*

 

[felipepepe]

Yup, Evangelion is the best giant robot battle series ever, save for that annoying Shinji crybaby guy.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

save for that annoying Shinji crybaby guy.

Oh no you didn't nigga.

EDIT: That's actually something very interesting to talk about, since Shinji is a very accurate psychological profile, but also for the fact that Anno has the sub-critique of the Otaku culture contained, since Otaku are not like Shinji who have genuine problems but self-impose misery like his for absolutely no reason.

 

[felipepepe]

I'm joking, I also appreciate how Evangelion masterfully deconstructs the whole Shonen genre with Shinji.

BTW Vaarna, what's your take on the new Eva series? I watched only the first OVA, but felt like a dumbed down version, with less Shinji & more awesome... not to mention that knwoing that they created a new American girl for the series sounds all kind of retarded already...

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

save for that annoying Shinji crybaby guy.

Oh no you didn't nigga.

EDIT: That's actually something very interesting to talk about, since Shinji is a very accurate psychological profile, but also for the fact that Anno has the sub-critique of the Otaku culture contained, since Otaku are not like Shinji who have genuine problems but self-impose misery like his for absolutely no reason.

Oh God, here we go again.

 

[Shadenuat]

I would rather re-watch 1979 Gundam than Evangelion

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

I'm joking, I also appreciate how Evangelion masterfully deconstructs the whole Shonen genre with Shinji.

BTW Vaarna, what's your take on the new Eva series? I watched only the first OVA, but felt like a dumbed down version, with less Shinji & more awesome... not to mention that knwoing that they created a new American girl for the series sounds all kind of retarded already...

Well, like I've said I'm still holding out my judgment until I see the whole thing (I've got the extended cuts of both of the new movies on Blu-Ray), partly because of the possibility that Anno isn't just trolling with all the references and it's a pseudo-sequel. But my impressions so far have been varied, some things have been handled better (for example, they generally handle Asuka better due to not having to pad things out) and the pacing has benefited from trimming of much of the first half of the show (which was largely filler to throw people off anyway until deconstruction is turned up to 11). However, some omissions were not good, such as removing Kaji's little pep talk at the melon patch (though the burnt melons also worked pretty well), and I didn't really like that Misato just infodumped the whole Lilith thing on Shinji in the first movie. In general though the second movie is much better than the first, and goes much further when it comes to doing its own thing. I am interested in seeing what happens in the third movie that comes out this month, since the last one ended on a note that radically diverged from the original.

Still, it has a huge leap to make if it wants to live up to The End of Evangelion, which I consider one of the two best movies I've ever seen.


PS: The new girl is still a complete mystery, in the second film she's largely a background character that does some fanservice. The best thing about her is the peripheral involvement she had in bringing about this glorious piece of Engrish:

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

God has forsaken this thread.

 

[Gragt]

I love Evangelion but that's it I'm outta here.

 

[lightbane]

Was Doraemon popular? All the bloody books I read keep saying that Doreamon failed in the US because "it was too japanese for any other culture"...

Shame for the US then. Doraemon here is popular enough to be aired even nowadays. The bloody cat never dies (too bad the writer did die before finishing the series )

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

I love Evangelion but that's it I'm outta here.

God has forsaken this thread.

Alright, I pinky-swear not to post about Evangelion in this topic anymore. I wasn't the one who brought up the subject!