Recommend me something!

[newageofpower]

To me, AoD one of the best RPGs I've every played; and DR one of the better combat games around. I've tried the Blackguard Series, Serpent in the Staglands, the Divinity series, the Shadowrun series; which are all great but didn't wow me to the same degree as AoD.

Please help!

 

[t]

AoD is quite special. Go through http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=9453 codex top70.

 

[Lurker King]

Do you want games with strong reactivity, i.e., choices and consequences? Fallout, Fallout 2, Fallout: New Vegas, Arcanum, Planescape: Torment, Prelude to Darkness, King of the Dragon Pass, Darklands, Never Winter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer, Knights of The Old Republic 2, Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines and Dragon Age: Origins. Please notice that this list is a mixed bag. Some of these games are great while others are just ok. Some games have deep reactivity with skill checks and multiple endings, while others have pockets of reactivity in side quests, few skill checks and linear story. Some of these games are isometric, while others use a FPS engine. Some of these games have good writing and good story, or good atmosphere and art direction, while others not so much. FO and FO2 are two of the main inspirations of AoD.

Other games that I don’t like, but have lots of reactivity are Alpha Protocol, Baldur’s Gate 2, Never Winter Nights 2, Wasteland 2, Knights of The Old Republic and Mass Effect. I would not recommend Pillars of Eternity even in this list, because is a shallow game that wants to be perceived as a isometric classic. Underrail is a great game, but most of the quests are linear. The reactivity in this game is mostly on the factions quests.

If you want good combat, you should play strategy games. JA:2 is the best I played. Underrail is one of the few cRPGs that I can say also has good combat.

 

[Kalin]

Geneforge series.

 

[bati]

UnderRail, no contest. It's like an isometric Deus Ex.

edit: Ok, I might as well shill for my favorite game of all time, since Lurker King already mentioned it - Jagged Alliance 2. You will not find a game with better tactical combat, I guarantee it. Especially if you install 1.13 mod.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Realms of Arkania HD.

 

[Jason Liang]

You guys do realize that AoD's combat is shit? I can't speak for Dungeon Rats, haven't played it.

But 85% of AoD's fights get crushed by bola spam.

 

[Kalin]

You're shit.

 

[bati]

Bola are limited and you lose a whole turn applying it - if you need to rely on them you're probably playing a char with 10 AP or less and mid-tier combat stats, meaning you'll waste 5 AP just to apply it then if you're melee another 2 AP to get in range, assuming the target starts at optimal range which is 1 tile of free space in a straight line away from you. After the preparation is done you're left with 3 or so AP, enough for a dagger stab, again assuming you have it equipped. If not you forfeit your turn and have a whooping 1 turn of reprieve from the badass that you felt was dangerous enough that you had to throw a rope around his neck. Hardly gamebreaking, especially since most fights are 1 vs many and using bolas on one guy isn't enough if your combat stats are shit. And if they're not you don't even need the bolas.

 

[Jason Liang]

turn 1-
5 AP Bola choke
3 AP Hand crossbow to the throat
3 AP Hand crossbow to the throat

turn 2-
2 AP equip longbow
8 AP moneyshot to the face

you can even do a second moneyshot to the face on turn 3. It seems like enemies still have choke penalties on the turn they get up from the choke.

With bolas, you don't need combat stats. And you have plenty of bolas to get you to Bolter/ Power Armor or whatever. There's probably like 30 bolas and about 20 fights where you would use them.

 

[Kalin]

You're shit.

 

[Black Angel]

You guys do realize that AoD's combat is shit? I can't speak for Dungeon Rats, haven't played it.

But 85% of AoD's fights get crushed by bola spam.

turn 1-
5 AP Bola choke
3 AP Hand crossbow to the throat
3 AP Hand crossbow to the throat

turn 2-
2 AP equip longbow
8 AP moneyshot to the face

you can even do a second moneyshot to the face on turn 3. It seems like enemies still have choke penalties on the turn they get up from the choke.

With bolas, you don't need combat stats. And you have plenty of bolas to get you to Bolter/ Power Armor or whatever. There's probably like 30 bolas and about 20 fights where you would use them.

Just because one gets the opportunity to spam/abuse a mechanic, therefore the entire combat is shit?

What

Besides, your example are with ranged combat. Melee in AoD and DR are actually pretty good (although, I'm relatively a newfag to the whole cRPG genre, so I wouldn't know any other TB cRPGs who had better melee combat than AoD).

 

[Jason Liang]

Just because one gets the opportunity to spam/abuse a mechanic, therefore the entire combat is shit?

Yes, if it's a mechanic that requires no skill to use, that the game even tells you you should abuse, so it's not like it's an exploit. The game tells you many times to use nets and bolas.

AoD isn't a bad rpg but saying that its combat is god-tier or better than Shadowrun's or on par with Jagged Alliance makes me barf.

Good RPG combat can't have such a broken mechanic. AoD's combat has a lot of good ideas but it also has too many broken mechanics.

 

[Kalin]

You're SHIT.

 

[Black Angel]

Yes, if it's a mechanic that requires no skill to use, that the game even tells you you should abuse, so it's not like it's an exploit. The game tells you many times to use nets and bolas.

AoD isn't a bad rpg but saying that its combat is god-tier or better than Shadowrun's or on par with Jagged Alliance makes me barf.

Good RPG combat can't have such a broken mechanic. AoD's combat has a lot of good ideas but it also has too many broken mechanics.

On my very first playthrough, a full-fighter Mercenary, I never even use bolas, and I utilized nets sometimes. It's not like just because the game suggest you to use them, suddenly they are mandatory and become subject to your decision to fully abuse them.

Also, like I said, I'm a bloody newfag. I haven't played Shadowrun games, let alone Jagged Alliance, to compare it to AoD (or even Underrail). I never even claim that AoD's combat is 'god-tier', just pretty good.

And again, just because some mechanics are prone to abuse, doesn't automatically means they are 'broken'. In fact, again, your example are only with ranged weapons. Care to give an example with melee builds where you would abuse bolas like you did with ranged weapons? Probably would be the same, but that's just you abusing the mechanic.

It's still entirely possible to go through the game without using those.

 

[laclongquan]

Not really a RPG but a RPG-lite combat heavy game like Jagged Alliance2 and Fallout Tactics

I recommend UFO Afterlight, and her older sister UFO Aftershock.

With UFOAL, set combat at highest difficulty, and production only at 2nd highest. This mean you will have a desperate fights from start to end, and barely enough time to produce what you research for battle use, definitely will scavenge loots to use in fight. (IF prod at highest you dont even produce enough, a true scavenge game).

Dont let RTwP fool you. It's actually very tactic heavy with focus on thoughts, not reflex. You will calculate every move, one after another. You will even savescum, BUT the game has some mechanic in place to deal with that, which is the best treatment I've ever seen in a game. Each battle is a slo-mo time period you will replay countless time to devise the best tactic, best move.

 

[Lurker King]

turn 1-
5 AP Bola choke
3 AP Hand crossbow to the throat
3 AP Hand crossbow to the throat

turn 2-
2 AP equip longbow
8 AP moneyshot to the face

you can even do a second moneyshot to the face on turn 3. It seems like enemies still have choke penalties on the turn they get up from the choke.

With bolas, you don't need combat stats. And you have plenty of bolas to get you to Bolter/ Power Armor or whatever. There's probably like 30 bolas and about 20 fights where you would use them.

You just forget to consider that 99% of fights you are outnumbered. So it goes like this:

Turn 1-
5 AP Bola choke
3 AP Hand crossbow to the throat
3 AP Hand crossbow to the throat

Take attacks from the left
Take attacks from the right
Get shot and die
Restart and try again

You also need to consider that any heavy amor with higher DR will prevent the 12AP combo you mentioned above. So basically you are talking nonsense.

 

[Lurker King]

Yes, if it's a mechanic that requires no skill to use, that the game even tells you you should abuse, so it's not like it's an exploit. The game tells you many times to use nets and bolas.

That's irrelevant because they are not easy items to find and it works both ways - your enemies can also use them. So again the idea that you can go trough the game beating all the fights with bolas is just nonsense because you wouldn't have enough bolas to beat even 1/10 of the fights.

 

[Jason Liang]

You just forget to consider that 99% of fights you are outnumbered. So it goes like this:

Turn 1-
5 AP Bola choke
3 AP Hand crossbow to the throat
3 AP Hand crossbow to the throat

Take attacks from the left
Take attacks from the right
Get shot and die

Wear some armor or kill the archers first if they are more threatening.

You also need to consider that any heavy amor with higher DR will prevent the 12AP combo you mentioned above. So basically you are talking nonsense.

5+3+3 = 11 AP.

That's irrelevant because they are not easy items to find and it works both ways - your enemies can also use them. So again the idea that you can go trough the game beating all the fights with bolas is just nonsense because you wouldn't have enough bolas to beat even 1/10 of the fights.

Which fight do you get fucking bola choked? I don't remember this.

How are bolas not easy to find? It's easier to find bolas in Teron than wood or hardened leather.

And if you need bolas for ALL the fights, then that's just pathetic. Use them judiciously. AoD's combat is shitty since any character can use this autokill attack if you come across a remotely challenging fight.

I took pictures in the other thread. Just started Maadoran, 60 body count so far, combat skills bow 1, dodge 5, cs 6, crafting 4 and alchemy 2. Executioner, Terminator. I've used 3 bolas (the Centurion and 2 Arena fights), and I probably didn't need the bola against the Centurion, just wanted to keep Neleos alive.

 

[Skittles]

Jason Liang Off the top of my head, the "offer you can't refuse" by the Forty Thieves at the end of the Basil quest line starts with bolas to the face; don't the power armour bandits use a set, too?

In any case, most vendors in the game only carry two. How many do you actually get? 2 in Teron and 4 in Maadoran?

 

[Jason Liang]

Jason Liang Off the top of my head, the "offer you can't refuse" by the Forty Thieves at the end of the Basil quest line starts with bolas to the face; don't the power armour bandits use a set, too?

In any case, most vendors in the game only carry two. How many do you actually get? 2 in Teron and 4 in Maadoran?

5 or 6 in Teron, and iirc 8 in Maadoran. I'm checking.

You also get a ton of nets too.

 

[Skittles]

Jason Liang Off the top of my head, the "offer you can't refuse" by the Forty Thieves at the end of the Basil quest line starts with bolas to the face; don't the power armour bandits use a set, too?

In any case, most vendors in the game only carry two. How many do you actually get? 2 in Teron and 4 in Maadoran?

5 or 6 in Teron, and iirc 8 in Maadoran. I'm checking.

You also get a ton of nets too.

Okay, I'd be interested in a full list if you discover more. I did a loremaster run that relied on bolas to cheese past combat once and only scrounged up so many, although I didn't look that hard. I got two from the merchant outside of the inn in Teron, two from the arena vendor, and two from a Merchant's District vendor in Maadoran. Do any Forty Thieves vendors, like the barkeep in Teron or a Temple District merchant sell them (I know you can get in without being a thief, but that optional 8? person fight isn't one that's going to work well relying only on bolas)?

In any case, I dunno that even 14 available makes them a game-breaking inclusion. The real secret to using bolas well seems to be aiming exclusively for the neck and save/loading. And taking save/loading into account doesn't seem to be a fair way of judging a mechanic.

 

[valcik]

AoD isn't a bad rpg but saying that its combat is god-tier or better than Shadowrun's or on par with Jagged Alliance makes me barf.

Combat system in Shadowrun remakes is a joke.
The only flaw in AoD is that you can overcome armor penalty with neurostims, which doesn't make any sense. Figher with 12 AP granted by high dexterity cannot use more than 10 AP while wearing standard issue lorica segmentata, after sipping some neurostim (+2AP) his swift body is not limited by metal shell anymore though and he can spend 12 AP without any problem. I think that neurostims should've worked only for unarmored characters, or light armors wearing ones.
Your counter-bola crusade is lame of course.

 

[Skittles]

The only flaw in AoD is that you can overcome armor penalty with neurostims, which doesn't make any sense. Figher with 12 AP granted by high dexterity cannot use more than 10 AP while wearing standard issue lorica segmentata, after sipping some neurostim (+2AP) his swift body is not limited by metal shell anymore though and he can spend 12 AP without any problem. I think that neurostims should've worked only for unarmored characters, or light armors wearing ones.
Your counter-bola crusade is lame of course.

Hah, I never actually tried this because it's so counter-intuitive that it would work. I always took armour with my target AP limit.

 

[Lurker King]

AoD isn't a bad rpg but saying that its combat is god-tier or better than Shadowrun's makes me barf.