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The Dark Eye Realms of Arkania - Blade of Destiny

:Flash:

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I don't know the GOG manual, but the replacementdocs one is also missing this info.
Additionally, it's missing the info on all the weapons, all the armour, the description of all creatures (including strenghts and weaknesses. Also it has included the geographical information into the "role playing terms" appendix, and left out about half of the original terms. All compared to the German version of the manual.

Fake Edit: I just googled again, and the Museum of Computer Adventure Game History has the manual of both the Sir-Tech and the U.S. Gold release. Both of these manuals are a complete translation of the German manual, including all of that info. It's just the Softkey manual that is missing it.

Someone should possibly inform GOG about this.

Edit 2 (real, this time): No, it's not complete either. It's missing the weapons and armour information, the creature information, the complete description of the character screen in advanced mode, and (very important) the information on how leveling up works. It's no wonder people complain about that, if they cannot have an idea how it works.
 
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Want to add something. You know, a lot of these old games came with very nice manuals. It was so very important to have the manual because tutorials tended to be crappy. And there was lack of hand holding too. I'm constantly reminded of this when I"m playing these games and do not have the manual. It's just NOT the same when you have to alt-tab out and look at the PDF. And also it doesn't account for when you're on the toilet and reading it or doing something else and reading it. I guess if people have portables they can put the manual on that, but I don't have a portable. The other option is to print everything.

However, the old games still suck anyway most of the time for user-friendliness. I like the ones which have context help, though. Master of Orion 2 has that. And they're also usually plagued by horrible horrible interfaces. If the game has a decent interface and some context help and a good manual, I'd say that's as good as you can get from an old game.
 
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I don't know the GOG manual, but the replacementdocs one is also missing this info.
Additionally, it's missing the info on all the weapons, all the armour, the description of all creatures (including strenghts and weaknesses. Also it has included the geographical information into the "role playing terms" appendix, and left out about half of the original terms. All compared to the German version of the manual.

Fake Edit: I just googled again, and the Museum of Computer Adventure Game History has the manual of both the Sir-Tech and the U.S. Gold release. Both of these manuals are a complete translation of the German manual, including all of that info. It's just the Softkey manual that is missing it.

Someone should possibly inform GOG about this.

Edit 2 (real, this time): No, it's not complete either. It's missing the weapons and armour information, the creature information, the complete description of the character screen in advanced mode, and (very important) the information on how leveling up works. It's no wonder people complain about that, if they cannot have an idea how it works.
There comes a time Flash when even a good manual can't make up for crappy in-game tutorials and zero lead up to important systems. What this means is the gamer has to read the manual for a while before they can even play the game. Simulations are renown for this. This is I think also why they tended to always be unpopular. And even if simulations have good in-game tutorials and good lead up to things, they still suffer from mechanics which're inherently technical and hard to make accessible.

I think mainly it has to do with the large numbers of controls and systems in simulations. You have to leanr all those to be effective in the missions that the game gives you. Even a good design would have to work very hard to make it fun because the player has to be slowly taught things and so the focus has to be put on that as much as on the full game.

It boils down to this motto for games: simple to play, hard to master. I can startup Mario Brothers and start playing immediately. I could probably get past the first level. I can do the same with Tetris. I don't need a manual. I can eyeball it and just "get it". I cannot do that with a simulation game unless it's massively streamlined.
 
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aleph

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Not having the manual certainly makes playing RoA a bit difficult I guess. I remember when I bought it (German Version), it came with tons of documentation, kind of a ligth version of the TDE ruleset, a very light version but still.

belowmecoldhands can't you just stop wasting everyones time and go play WoW or something? Do you really think your popamole opinion is relevant in a thread about a game which has "simulationism" as its biggest advantage?
 

NotAGolfer

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I don't know the GOG manual, but the replacementdocs one is also missing this info.
Additionally, it's missing the info on all the weapons, all the armour, the description of all creatures (including strenghts and weaknesses. Also it has included the geographical information into the "role playing terms" appendix, and left out about half of the original terms. All compared to the German version of the manual.

Fake Edit: I just googled again, and the Museum of Computer Adventure Game History has the manual of both the Sir-Tech and the U.S. Gold release. Both of these manuals are a complete translation of the German manual, including all of that info. It's just the Softkey manual that is missing it.

Someone should possibly inform GOG about this.

Edit 2 (real, this time): No, it's not complete either. It's missing the weapons and armour information, the creature information, the complete description of the character screen in advanced mode, and (very important) the information on how leveling up works. It's no wonder people complain about that, if they cannot have an idea how it works.
There comes a time Flash when even a good manual can't make up for crappy in-game tutorials and zero lead up to important systems. What this means is the gamer has to read the manual for a while before they can even play the game. Simulations are renown for this. This is I think also why they tended to always be unpopular. And even if simulations have good in-game tutorials and good lead up to things, they still suffer from mechanics which're inherently technical and hard to make accessible.

I think mainly it has to do with the large numbers of controls and systems in simulations. You have to leanr all those to be effective in the missions that the game gives you. Even a good design would have to work very hard to make it fun because the player has to be slowly taught things and so the focus has to be put on that as much as on the full game.

It boils down to this motto for games: simple to play, hard to master. I can startup Mario Brothers and start playing immediately. I could probably get past the first level. I can do the same with Tetris. I don't need a manual. I can eyeball it and just "get it". I cannot do that with a simulation game unless it's massively streamlined.
Cool story brah :retarded:

Of course I read the RoA manuals back in the day, that was vital. And I loved to dig into all that meaty PnP ruleset goodness and the lore presented there.
Some of the most fun I have with playing games is figuring out the mechanics and optiimal approaches. As soon as I did that most games cease to keep me interested. They have to have exceptional gameplay or at least a constant flow of new challenges to overcome to get me to play through to the end.
Ok, some of those quick and easy popamole shit games I played through too, but hey, I like movies, sometimes even the interactive ones. :M


@everybody:
Please don't defend lazy game design, for example missed opportunities for skill checks.
These games have them in abundance and that's another reason why that crappy remake was such a letdown.
Some German fans of the series even tried to reverse engineer Blade of Destiny to finally implement all the stuff you have to larp because it wasn't in the game (like talent checks for all those useless clutter items). I guess that project is dead now though.
In defense of the guys at Attic you have to know that they were a really small studio and that they still managed to finish a game of that scope (and more or less on schedule too). This is quite an achievement, no matter if there are missing features.
BoD is also very much fun for many people, even today. The graphics are functional, the interface not too ancient and the TDE mechanics and world simulation guarantee that it stands out.
For me at least, this is one of the few games that I can replay without getting overly bored.
 
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agris

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(and yes, maybe it gets better later)

Nope, it doesn't. Blade of Destiny is a pretty shit game all in all. It's boring and full of chores, the combat is terrible, some of its design is completely obtuse and many of the quests/dungeons were very obviously designed in such a way to make you buy a cluebook.

If you don't like it already, I can only suggest you drop it right now. You'll get sick of the entire thing in a few hours tops, and after that you'll just keep playing with a walkthrough open to make the nightmare end as quickly as possible. AND THE ENDGAME STILL WON'T BE WORTH IT.

Quite possibly the only good parts of BoD are the music and the manual. The travel interface gets a few bonus points, but it also turns out annoying more often than not.
:necro:

Playing Serpent in the Staglands had made me more aware of this game, oddly. I'm wondering if Roxor's opinion is well-justified or not, and why? BoD sounds uncompromising, crunchy and perhaps very rewarding if you bother to learn the systems and take careful notes. If anyone has played SitS to a significant degree and RoA, I'd like to know if liking one implies enjoying the other. I'm nowhere near done with SitS, but I can't help but thinking about RoA as I play it, for some reason.
 

NotAGolfer

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(and yes, maybe it gets better later)

Nope, it doesn't. Blade of Destiny is a pretty shit game all in all. It's boring and full of chores, the combat is terrible, some of its design is completely obtuse and many of the quests/dungeons were very obviously designed in such a way to make you buy a cluebook.

If you don't like it already, I can only suggest you drop it right now. You'll get sick of the entire thing in a few hours tops, and after that you'll just keep playing with a walkthrough open to make the nightmare end as quickly as possible. AND THE ENDGAME STILL WON'T BE WORTH IT.

Quite possibly the only good parts of BoD are the music and the manual. The travel interface gets a few bonus points, but it also turns out annoying more often than not.
:necro:

Playing Serpent in the Staglands had made me more aware of this game, oddly. I'm wondering if Roxor's opinion is well-justified or not, and why? BoD sounds uncompromising, crunchy and perhaps very rewarding if you bother to learn the systems and take careful notes. If anyone has played SitS to a significant degree and RoA, I'd like to know if liking one implies enjoying the other. I'm nowhere near done with SitS, but I can't help but thinking about RoA as I play it, for some reason.
It is not justified at all.
Some posters here just cannot for the life of them let go and play games the way they are supposed to be played, with an open mind and sense of discovery and the ability to go along with the stories and some measure of forgiveness for the game's shortcomings. More often than not Codex is not the last line of defense against the decline but just a bunch of jaded g4m0r manchildren who can't get it up anymore, who stopped enjoying games a long time ago (if they ever did) and therefore are butthurt and try to justify the time they waste ranting here with pseudo analytic pieces about why everything suxx.
:avatard::avatard::avatard:

But to answer your questions:
SitS isn't BoD, in fact the narrative in the first RoA game is bare-bones at best and the game's kinda ugly today.
But other than that the analogy has something going for it, gameplay in both games heavily relies on systems and RPG mechanics and I might be wrong but I'm under the impression that the story in SitS, while being vastly more fleshed out and also more interesting than in any RoA game (maybe except for Shadows over Riva), takes a backseat to exploration. Blade of Destiny shares that trait, it's explorationfag heaven, and it's one of those nice old-school games where dungeons were actually difficult obstacles full of dangers and hidden secrets. Also combat preparation is as important as in SitS (travel preparation too, but SitS doesn't simulate overworld travel in such a detailed and imo fun way) and the combat itself is a bit underwhelming. So another check there.
Micromanagement is not that fun though, further amplified by the clunky controls. But that's a common problem for many of those old games and it never stopped me from having a blast with BoD.

Just don't make the mistake to check out every house in every town (except Thorwal and Phexcaer), there's nothing to find there, even when breaking in abandoned buildings.
And don't hesitate to consult guides that explain the systems. This game is no fun when you only learn the basics and then choose beginner mode. I suppose it would be even better if you have the patience I had 20 years ago and try to figure everything out without guides but just with the handbook and through trial and error but that's something only kids and other people with too much time on their hands can truly appreciate.
The whole point of it is the feel of leading a band of adventurers in a PnP session, simulating everything from lots of survival checks in the wilderness and in dungeons to the very detailed DSA character development systems.
Also don't overthink it, the game isn't that hard and you don't need optimized char builds. And if you gimped your chars too much just buy lots of poison and use it to kill most of the baddies the cheesy way.

This game obviously sucks for autistic faggots like Darth Roxor, because of course it has a lot of flaws you can sperg on about and some people just love to hear themselves talk.
The thing is those flaws don't matter if you play it as intended, as a computersimulated PnP session. Ok, sadly without a GM (duh!), but they still managed to capture surprisingly much of it thanks to the solid systems, scripted encounters (often short CYOA sequences with pretty pixel art) everywhere and frequent skillchecks that make your char development and equipment choices matter.
If only the game was a bit more punishing.
 
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Darth Roxor

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This game obviously sucks for autistic faggots

More news at 11, if you dare to say that a game mostly about combat has utter shit combat, you are an autistic faggot. People can really get butthurt about their favourite games being criticised.
 

Darth Roxor

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At least half the game is spent in very badly designed combat. The rest is a combination of going back and forth and clicking 'assign dude x to hunt, dude y to gather plants, dudes a b and c for guard duty'. You are welcome to prove me wrong.
 

Morkar Left

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At least half the game is spent in very badly designed combat. The rest is a combination of going back and forth and clicking 'assign dude x to hunt, dude y to gather plants, dudes a b and c for guard duty'. You are welcome to prove me wrong.

Opinions like that are the reason why we can't have nice things anymore.
 

Lady_Error

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At least half the game is spent in very badly designed combat. The rest is a combination of going back and forth and clicking 'assign dude x to hunt, dude y to gather plants, dudes a b and c for guard duty'. You are welcome to prove me wrong.

Roxor, why u no like good RPG's? The second Realms of Arkania was obviously better, but even the RoA precursor "Spirit of Adventure" was pretty good.
 

vonAchdorf

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Roxor, why u no like good RPG's? The second Realms of Arkania was obviously better, but even the RoA precursor "Spirit of Adventure" was pretty good.

"Spirit of Adventure" was good and in addition, they managed to improve the successors with each iteration (Star Trail > SoD > SoA) (not so sure about SoR).
 

Gord

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Yet again shows that Roxor's opinion should be taken with a grain of salt. He's very vocal about it, sure, but it often consists of exaggerations and half-truths.

"Spirit of Adventure" was good and in addition, they managed to improve the successors with each iteration (Star Trail > SoD > SoA) (not so sure about SoR).

I liked SoR, it has a nice atmosphere, imo, but due to the missing overland map also sadly lost one thing that made the first two games so great.
What they did improve are story (ending aside), atmosphere, presentation (sound+gfx) and some additional quality-of-life things with the engine, I think.
If you play it with an imported party, it will be trivially easy for much of the game, however.
 
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Darth Roxor

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I don't find it at all strange that all the people above me are Germans :smug:
URwYTO.png
 

vonAchdorf

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Darth Roxor can be right about shitty games though – his preview of Blackguards 2 e.g. And he didn't get corrupted at Gamescom.

He's still wrong about RoA though.
 

Iluvcheezcake

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:necro:

So I was thinking of playing the original trilogy with a party of 6 mages. Anyone done it before? Might even consider doing a LP as well. What do you guys think?
 

vonAchdorf

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I haven't done it myself, but I heard that people played with 6 mages. The first few hours could be tricky, but once you get a level or two, it should be a breeze.
 

Siobhan

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Unless you impose additional restrictions on yourself, it will be a cakewalk. Mages are one of the easiest classes to solo because they have an unbreakable weapon, permanent light source, and can raise their AC to ridiculous levels with stacked Armatrutz, essentially becoming invulnerable. A solo mage can even win those fights in Startrail that were designed to be unwinnable. 6 mages might make it slightly harder because you get less XP per character, but it will still be a simple affair. At best, you'll get a lopsided difficulty curve with a very tough start before everything becomes so trivial around level 3 that you can auto-resolve every fight after the first five rounds of buffing.

Edit: Ninja-ed
 

Teut Busnet

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Won't he get in trouble because of the very slow (nightly, IIRC) mana regeneration? Meditation will help to a point I guess.

Maybe that can be solved by alchemy later on, when you brew your own potions and collect all the herbs yourself, but at the start you should avoid dungeons with several fights in a row.
 

Iluvcheezcake

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Hm.... or probably herbing a lot until i get a supply of whirlweeds for hp regen
 

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