Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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Review Rampant Coyote Reviews Age of Decadence

Discussion in 'RPG Codex News & Content Comments' started by Crooked Bee, Jul 25, 2012.

  1. Crooked Bee Nyadmin Patron

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    Tags: Age of Decadence; Rampant Games

    Jay "Rampant Coyote" Barnson has written down his impressions of Age of Decadence, currently playable as an R2 public beta, mostly focusing on questing and combats. Have some snippets:

    The branching nature of these quests and events is definitely interesting, leading to some cool replayable options. But there are always limitations. One downside of the branching dialog is that the game sometimes assumes a behavior on the part of your character that doesn’t match your intention. Some of this could be prevented by giving your character more limited dialog – not putting words in his or her mouth – but that makes for less compelling dialog. The branching events also mean that as a player, I tend to consume quests pretty quickly. With a couple of failures and some dumb purchase decisions, I soon found myself kind of stymied in one play-through, where the only remaining quests on my list either demanded money I didn’t have, or seemed to not yet be implemented. It’s tough to tell, as the game gives you few hints on some of the later quests as to where to go.

    [...] Sometimes events seem to find you instead. For a short time, the world seemed pretty rich in events going on. I’d walk around the city and stumble into things that would trigger. This was pretty exciting. Then I seemed to exhaust the events, and the game revealed perhaps its biggest weakness – there’s no regular “loop” of activity in the game to engage in. In this way, it resembles an adventure game with RPG-style task resolutions. But if you get blocked for any reason, there’s not much to do but wander around already-explored territory poking around to find anything else you may have missed the previous dozen times you passed the spot. Occasionally it works, and it’s awesome when it happens. But when you spend fifteen minutes moving from place to place and clicking on the same people who have nothing more to say, it gets pretty old pretty fast.

    Hopefully this is something that will be addressed in the full release. But whereas most RPGs have the explore-fight-loot loop to fall back on (and fall back on it they do far too often, IMO), the Iron Tower developers seem to have actively avoided this approach. I applaud them for the effort – I’m really excited to play through an entire game as a merchant and as a thief and see how those play out – but it’s going to require them to pull something out of their sleeves to make it really work.

    [...] A bigger problem – and it may have been my lack of understanding – but it feels like there aren’t that many options once combat is joined. If later in the game, you get to control more people than your own character, then I can see the tactical turn-based combat being much more interesting. But lacking any sort of magical spoilers like healing spells or potions, or any special magic-like feats or special moves that demand fluid and dynamic responses, combat seems pretty limited to taking turns beating on one another until you or your opponent(s) goes down. Since you can get multiple actions – movement and attacks – in during your turn, I suspect there are some tricks I could use to try and force my opponent’s expenditure of action points to my advantage, but that’s pretty subtle stuff. The relative scarcity of combat in this game (again, that’s not a bad thing, just a different thing) suggests I may not have many opportunities to master the art.

    I’m actually okay with this, in theory. If combat is downplayed for non-combat oriented characters, booyah! But something else has to take its place. I’m just not sure what else is in place in the “skeleton” of the game to give structure to the meat. But as I said before – I’m thrilled that Iron Tower is trying. There are several points in the demo where dialogs or descriptions make fun of standard fantasy RPG tropes, reminding the player that this is not conventional RPG fare. I’m on board with that. I think the game has some pretty exciting potential in its concept, setting, and approach. It’s pushing some boundaries that are long overdue for pushing. If Iron Tower can really focus on the core, without losing sight of the delightful “exception-based” events that make the game stand out, they could have a winner on their hands upon release.

    Sounds like reasonable feedback to me. Click here to read it in full.
    Arpad, Mangoose and Kz3r0 Brofist this.
  2. Phelot RPG Codex Staff

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    Uh oh... Are a select few Codexers to be vindicated for sharing this opinion?
  3. Ion Prothon II Savant

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    I think he should hit his head against the wall few times.

    You see, VD? Fucking chests & barrels, everyone love them. With a pathological love, though.

    Combat is flawed, but magical medkits are the last thing I could think of, in terms of fixing it. One thing is right, as for the lack of the defensive 'actions'.
    Is there anything that could significantly affect defense? Like adding unused AP to AC in good old Fallout?
    Good pope in heaven, all the talk about AoD combat is :deadhorse:

    Poor uninformed guy, he doesn't know there's gonna be no meat at all. But hey, at least those ribs look nice.
  4. Zed RPG Codex Staff

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    I replayed the first few hours of KotOR. While it's not a very good game (and most Codexers seem to think it's pure garbage?) I kind of enjoyed it. Which is weird. Because in essence, it's 50% combat, 10% dialogue... and 40% chests & barrels-hunt.
    There's something about looking in containers and looting shit. Everyone are kleptomaniacs in games.
  5. mbpopolano24 Learned

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    I disagree. AoD is very realistic. When I fight on the street and/or in bars it takes me about 20-30 hits in the head to put down a guy. Then the next guy arrive and I am fucked (since I have already taken 28 hits in the head).

    Incidentally, the above can also explain the quality of my posts.
    RK47 Brofists this.
  6. Vault Dweller Ubersturmfuhrer

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    Still stuck on that "headshots don't kill people instantly!" thing?
  7. l3loodAngel Learned Patron

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    If serious.
    Dude WTF? You CAN knock out dude with one HIT unless you want to turn his brain into a pudding and then do time. Get some martial training...
  8. visions Arbiter

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    Yeah I think he was dead serious.
  9. Grunker RPG Codex Staff Patron

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  10. hoverdog dog that is hovering

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  11. MisterStone Arbiter

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    Seems like a pretty insightful review, agree with it or not, and well written. Hope that the IT folks at least consider some of the criticisms...

    I think he hit the whole 'adventure game with RPG solutions' things spot on. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it does seem like a bit of procedural content can flesh out an RPG rather than just 100% quests 'n stuff. Not sure if this is really accurate with regard to AOD because it's still in an early stage and I haven't played a lot of the latest test version tho...
    Mangoose Brofists this.
  12. Oriental European Educated

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    This guy sounds like a complete newbie in gaming.
  13. sea Arcane

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    Funny, because he has years of experience both professionally and as an indie (he worked on some of the Twisted Metal games if I recall correctly).
  14. l3loodAngel Learned Patron

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    I would prefer less, but whatever. Unlike Volourn I do see the game's limitations, but most critique comes from people who hardly played the game. Even in FO2 you had to have 2 perks to kill a guy with a hit in the eyes with a gun and the minimum requirement was lvl 9. Now to knock him out you would have to do CS to eyes or to the head, same as AoD. I am not sure is this intentional, but this critique sounds like give me a Win button. Unlike Volourn I never argue with people who have reasonable argument's, but this codex meme of spouting bullshit is annoying.

    BTW, when I used to fight in school hitting someone in the head like 18-25 times did not result in a knock down, as codex is full of wimps I do think that most of you would struggle to knock a guy out.
  15. Oriental European Educated

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    Geee, what a valuable experience. Also, that's development and not gaming, stop kissing every "insider's" butt.
    (no offense or bitter sarcasm intended)
  16. Tolknaz Learned Patron

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    The guy is an industry veteran with plenty of experience making games for others (since PS1) and also by himself. Take a look at a (quite good) interview Matt Barton did with him before you start talking smack.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R8c4YCtncs
  17. Wavinator Novice

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    May have been observed here before, but I think this is that schedule of rewards effect starting to be exploited so openly by the AAA guys, who are trying to intensify it by hiring behavioral psychologists to help drive the design of future games and using metrics to fine tune the formula. I think game developers discovered rather innocently that we respond quite well to spikes of intense positive stimulation amid more low level background activity. Haven't played much AOD past making a few starting characters and messing around to know myself, but I almost wondered reading his review if the complaint about the events petering out is along the same lines.[/quote]
  18. Oriental European Educated

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    I think that this part shows that he's pretty inexperienced in tactical/turn-based combat, and that's just what i meant. Again, stop thinking that if the guy "worked in industry" he's some kind of guru in everything related to vidiya games and business.
  19. hiver Dumbfuck!

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    Opposed to you who...played a lot of games?
  20. sea Arcane

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    I think they are valid complaints. The lack of multiple characters to control, and the lack of magic etc. do reduce your options. In most RPGs that feature magic, it makes combat much more interesting - you've got buffs, summons, nukes, debuffs, stuns, etc. that all let you control the battlefield in a variety of ways. Age of Decadence has some of that, but less than a lot of other RPGs - for instance, no healing, no area-of-effect (for the most part), etc. Now, new stuff is being added, like bombs, potions and other items, which will definitely improve combat - but a lot of that isn't in the demo at all.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't think Age of Decadence has difficult combat - but let's face it, a lot of it is just mashing power/fast/normal attack over and over until the enemies die or you die, and building the system entirely around AP attrition is not necessarily the best move, because it's sort of a one trick pony - once you learn how many moves and attacks enemies make, you can often just kite your way to victory (like Fallout).
  21. Oriental European Educated

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    Argh.
    ???
    I just said that he sounds like a newbie player, and i don't think that he made any comments that would show his experience as a developer. I mean come on, he "spend fifteen minutes moving from place to place and clicking on the same people who have nothing more to say" in a small demo, and then complained that there is not enough hints where to go, even tho half of the Codex was rightfully bitching about teleportation, which take you directly to the next event or quest so often.
  22. Johannes Liturgist

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    Or maybe he just hasn't played it much at all yet, and hasn't yet found out with certainty there's very little optimization to be done from the most obvious attack mashing? I mean, he's not even sure if he'll get to control party members.
  23. Oriental European Educated

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    Yes, maybe, and it's not a compliment.

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