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Question about Old AD&D Modules

Old One

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I got out my 1983 red boxed set books and looked at them. The Dungeon Masters Rulebook looks almost exactly the same as the Players Manual. The only differences on the front cover are the title and some text at the top. The Players Manual says "READ THIS BOOK FIRST" while the Rulebook says "READ THIS BOOK NEXT."

That boxed set was simplified about as much as humanly possible. It's pretty clear they thought the '81 books were still too daunting for a lot of new players.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

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The non-Advanced D&D rules sets were written as an intentional contrast to Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, with the purpose of providing an introduction and coherent ruleset for groups of people who had no experience with either RPGs or miniatures wargaming and who would be learning the game entirely by themselves rather than by individually joining an existing group of D&D players. This started with the 1977 'Blue Book' version of D&D written by Dr. Eric Holmes, a child psychologist, which attempted to describe the basic rules for the game in just 48 pages, limiting itself to a few character levels and a small number of monsters, treasures, etc.

The 1981 version of D&D built on this with a "Red Book' Basic Rulebook by Tom Moldvay that similarly described the basic rules for playing and enough information to handle dungeoneering and the first few levels of character development (with appropriate monsters, spells, etc.), but with 64 pages was able to offer far more in the way of explicit examples of how to play and extended descriptions of basic game mechanics. This was followed the same year by the Expert Rulebook written by David 'not yet Zeb' Cook, which covered character development through level 14 (with appropriate monsters, spells, etc.) as well as wilderness exploration and a few other topics relevant to this range of character levels.

Frank Mentzer had over 100 pages to work with in his 'Red Box' Basic Set for the 1983 version of D&D, and therefore had the luxury of offering more detailed walkthroughs for completely inexperienced players, starting with a 7-page 'first adventure' to introduce a few basic game concepts, followed by a 9-page choose-your-own-adventure-style 'solo adventure', and even a 9-page sample dungeon in the Dungeon Masters Rulebook. In the same year were released Mentzer's 'Blue Box' Expert Set with almost the same number of pages as the Cook Expert Rulebook (plus an adventure module for wilderness exploration) and his 'Green Box' Companion Set, taking characters through level 25, which was the first D&D product to include detailed rules on dominion management and mass warfare. This BECMI version of D&D was concluded by the 'Black Box' Master Set in 1985 and the 'Gold Box' Immortals Set in 1986, making it in total far complicated than any of the earlier versions of D&D except for AD&D, despite it paradoxically also including the gentlest introduction to role-playing games generally and D&D specifically.
 

nikolokolus

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One thing worth knowing about AD&D is that it was a way TSR could move forward with a product that they didn't have to pay Dave Arneson royalties on.
 

GarlandExCon

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Guys, how bad did I fuck up?

I sold this recently:


s_l1600.jpg


It is intact, sheets had never been written in. I found several character sheet packs like this on ebay, but none with this cover. They had sold from anywhere from $12 - 30. So I put it up for $25 and it sold instantly. So did I have something super valuable and didn't realize it? Let me know.
 

nikolokolus

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Guys, how bad did I fuck up?

I sold this recently:


s_l1600.jpg


It is intact, sheets had never been written in. I found several character sheet packs like this on ebay, but none with this cover. They had sold from anywhere from $12 - 30. So I put it up for $25 and it sold instantly. So did I have something super valuable and didn't realize it? Let me know.
If you ever have a question about something's rarity or (relative) value, go here: https://www.acaeum.com/
Here's the information on character sheets: https://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/miscpages/character.html

Based on the entry here for AC5: https://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/misc.html . . . yeah you probably fucked up.
 

Deuce Traveler

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
That's an interesting site. I never knew there was a version of B3 Palace of the Silver Princess with an orange cover.

https://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/modpages/b3.html

Yes, and the adventure is supposedly way different. The green cover version reads more as a fairy tale adventure, where you can save the princess at the end. The orange cover version is quite a bit darker and without as much of a happy ending, with the heroes dealing with the aftermath of the invasion without an easy way to bring things back to the way they were.
 

Cael

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I recall an old D&D book I read that had a single player beginner's module in it. Something about an evil wizard in a dungeon. Standard fare. You go in, wander around a short dungeon, met up with a female cleric, she dies to a scripted encounter, you fought the wizard and came out being a hero. I think you were a bog standard fighter. It's been over 20 years since I played that one.
 

nikolokolus

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I recall an old D&D book I read that had a single player beginner's module in it. Something about an evil wizard in a dungeon. Standard fare. You go in, wander around a short dungeon, met up with a female cleric, she dies to a scripted encounter, you fought the wizard and came out being a hero. I think you were a bog standard fighter. It's been over 20 years since I played that one.
The 1983 D&D Basic Set, solo adventure, Also called "Mentzer Basic" (named for Frank Mentzer).

Bargle lives in a cave, has a couple of zombies, he kills cleric babe with a magic missile, you kill him back, take his shit and return to town. The end.
 

Cael

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The 1983 D&D Basic Set, solo adventure, Also called "Mentzer Basic" (named for Frank Mentzer).

Bargle lives in a cave, has a couple of zombies, he kills cleric babe with a magic missile, you kill him back, take his shit and return to town. The end.
That must be it. Funny how a single magic missile is could be lethal to anyone in the old days but almost impossible these days due to max hp on the first level.
 

Old One

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The part where the gal dies is completely scripted so there aren't any die rolls or anything (although there are die rolls in other parts). That whole mini-adventure is super simplified as an introduction for people who had no idea what a RPG was before they opened the book for the first time. It's kind of fun to read though. It gets you angry at Bargle and wanting revenge.

It's the same red Players Manual Garland was asking about earlier in the thread, FWIW.
 

Cael

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The part where the gal dies is completely scripted so there aren't any die rolls or anything (although there are die rolls in other parts).
I was refering to the fact you can roll low for HP at level 1 back in the days and a single Magic Missile can really do you in. Nowadays, it is impossible to die to a single Magic Missile unless you are a mage with Con <10.
 

Deuce Traveler

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
I recall an old D&D book I read that had a single player beginner's module in it. Something about an evil wizard in a dungeon. Standard fare. You go in, wander around a short dungeon, met up with a female cleric, she dies to a scripted encounter, you fought the wizard and came out being a hero. I think you were a bog standard fighter. It's been over 20 years since I played that one.
The 1983 D&D Basic Set, solo adventure, Also called "Mentzer Basic" (named for Frank Mentzer).

Bargle lives in a cave, has a couple of zombies, he kills cleric babe with a magic missile, you kill him back, take his shit and return to town. The end.

The whole Bargle vs Aleena the Cleric thing even became a meme later on.

pic2221210_md.jpg


The last Dungeon magazine that Paizo published even had an adventure based upon you tracking down and killing Bargle. It was a version 3.5 adventure expanded from a sample BECMI adventure from the Dungeon Master book of the Red Box set.

REwardPoster.png


So yeah... that little mini-adventure had a lot more legs than anyone thought it would at the time of publication.
 

Cael

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The whole Bargle vs Aleena the Cleric thing even became a meme later on.

pic2221210_md.jpg


The last Dungeon magazine that Paizo published even had an adventure based upon you tracking down and killing Bargle. It was a version 3.5 adventure expanded from a sample BECMI adventure from the Dungeon Master book of the Red Box set.

REwardPoster.png


So yeah... that little mini-adventure had a lot more legs than anyone thought it would at the time of publication.
What's the odds that the pic of the cleric had a lot to do with it? :D Your typical nerdy kid running across a pretty damsel in distress and seeing her killed. That has to be psychologically damag- KILL HIM! KILLKILLKILL!!!
 

Zed Duke of Banville

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The part where the gal dies is completely scripted so there aren't any die rolls or anything (although there are die rolls in other parts). That whole mini-adventure is super simplified as an introduction for people who had no idea what a RPG was before they opened the book for the first time. It's kind of fun to read though. It gets you angry at Bargle and wanting revenge.

It's the same red Players Manual Garland was asking about earlier in the thread, FWIW.
Right, as I mentioned above this first, extremely simplified solo adventure was followed by a more complex, slightly lengthier, CYOA-style solo adventure that introduced players to proper dungeon exploration and combat. Of course, the latter adventure didn't feature Aleena (or any other NPC). Both Aleena and Bargle were revived for the first gazetteer of the D&D Known World campaign setting, The Grandy Duchy of Karameikos, with Aleena Halaran becoming the niece of Baron Sherlane Halaran of Threshold, and Bargle becoming court wizard to the devious Baron Ludwig von Hendricks 'the Black Eagle'.

VG17nsU.png


XZNyKu6.png


mLROTXk.png


GU1sDq6.png


Elmore drew another female cleric for the description of the cleric character class:
JKockFa.png


:shredder:
 
Last edited:

GarlandExCon

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Joined
May 19, 2014
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Guys, how bad did I fuck up?

I sold this recently:


s_l1600.jpg


It is intact, sheets had never been written in. I found several character sheet packs like this on ebay, but none with this cover. They had sold from anywhere from $12 - 30. So I put it up for $25 and it sold instantly. So did I have something super valuable and didn't realize it? Let me know.
If you ever have a question about something's rarity or (relative) value, go here: https://www.acaeum.com/
Here's the information on character sheets: https://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/miscpages/character.html

Based on the entry here for AC5: https://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/misc.html . . . yeah you probably fucked up.

Yep. I totally fucked up. I'd regret even asking but now I have a website that I can check. So at least it wasn't a total loss.
 

King Crispy

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Strap Yourselves In
I read the sample gameplay session in the AD&D DM Guide probably fifty times. I loved the part about the black spider landing on a character's back and one of the party members smacking it with a mace.

Everything seemed so uncomplicated back then.

EDIT: Wait, I think it went that one of the characters wanted to grab the spider to throw it and the DM ruled he had to make an attack roll. It succeeded, and then someone else smacked it with a mace. Forgive me; it's been a while.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

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If you ever have a question about something's rarity or (relative) value, go here: https://www.acaeum.com/
Here's the information on character sheets: https://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/miscpages/character.html

Based on the entry here for AC5: https://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/misc.html . . . yeah you probably fucked up.
Is the reason the site doesn't cover products from AD&D 2nd edition (1989) onward that these more recent products aren't worth much?

I was pleased to see a substantial real appreciation in the value of the gazetteers detailing the Known World campaign setting, which has always been my favorite. +M
 

nikolokolus

Arcane
Joined
May 8, 2013
Messages
4,090
If you ever have a question about something's rarity or (relative) value, go here: https://www.acaeum.com/
Here's the information on character sheets: https://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/miscpages/character.html

Based on the entry here for AC5: https://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/misc.html . . . yeah you probably fucked up.
Is the reason the site doesn't cover products from AD&D 2nd edition (1989) onward that these more recent products aren't worth much?

I was pleased to see a substantial real appreciation in the value of the gazetteers detailing the Known World campaign setting, which has always been my favorite. +M
Yeah pretty much. TSR (after Gygax was removed from the company and the Bluths took over), printed a lot of 2nd ed crap. That isn't to say all of it was shit or uncollectable (some of the 2nd edition boxed sets like Night Below can go for $150), but there's just so many titles and so little of it that is collectible that it probably just isn't in the site maintainer's interest to try to sift through all of that chaff.

That being said, there is a forum on the Acaeum (that I don't read much) where people seem to ask valuation advice for non-listed items.
 

GarlandExCon

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Bros, I need your help again:

Can you tell me what came with these module books (reference sheets, maps, etc.) and where I can locate a images so I can match the book with the other stuff?

Advanced Dungeons & Dragons - A1-4 - Scourge of the Slave Lords - 9167
Advanced Dungeons & Dragons - Vikings Campaign Sourcebook (9322 HR1)
Advanced Dungeons & Dragons - The Glory of Rome Campaign Sourcebook (9425)

Or direct me to a website that can? Is there an easy way to match up maps with the books?
 

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