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Publishing games in the Play Store / App store - Let's share what we learn

ghostdog

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Damn, that google suspension was completely unfair. Keep it up, the game seems very nice.
I'd suggest some improvement in the fonts and dialog UI though. While the gameworld seems detailed and good-looking, the UI seems amateurish and the fonts are downright ugly.
 

DavidBVal

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the UI is awful, yeah :D I am not born for aesthetics, lol.

It's a matter of what to spend my time on... But yes, I will add new fonts and improvements to UI.

PS: are we two the only "Bloodnets" in this place?
 

Guy de Incognito

Ensit Media
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Real shame about your game. I just missed it, but I'll definitely play it when you put it up again.

As for your suspension, I'm going to play devil's advocate here and say that Google doesn't really have much choice but to sanction mentioning other high-profile games in the descriptions. Due to the volume of app submissions and their business model, they can't vet apps to confirm that they are indeed inspired by whatever game their mention in the description. And if they are similar, would that be less or more of a problem? If they allowed apps to mention other big-name titles, some pregnant pony simulator clone would also have Diablo in the description and whatever else their authors thought could bring them more views.
Or Google could simply disregard the words in the descriptions from search results, but then your game would have to be called Exiled Kingdoms 2D Isometric RPG with Quests and Exploration.
And they suspended your package name permanently as a punitive measure, even though you could have changed that description in 10 seconds.

Google does drop the ball in several places:
- they apparently can't be arsed to have their search algorithm simply disregard problematic terms from the search results;
- they police their rules arbitrarily and belatedly instead of putting the hammer down when you submit the app;
- they tolerate all kinds of borderline fraudulent behavior (search for Super Mario on Google Play and see what results you get), just as long as you obey the letter instead of the spirit of their rules;
but the longer you develop for Android, the more of Google's incompetence you notice, so this shouldn't come as a surprise.

So yeah, in your case the suspension is unfair, but the fault is with tens of thousands of scumbag devs who ruin it for everyone else, and with Google's hands-off attitude towards Play Store submissions.

My own experience:
My RPG game is inspired mostly by Darklands and this is reflected in the tag cloud of reviews I got, but I didn't mention Darklands in the description precisely to avoid what happened to you, never mind that Microprose (publisher of Darklands) has been out of business for like 15 years.
Last year I also made a game called Asteroid Defense Turret and within 2 weeks (after like 25 downloads) I got a letter from lawyers claiming to represent Atari (owners of Microprose IP by the way) demanding that I remove the word 'asteroid' from the title of my game or they would have my Google account banned. The game was not a rip off of Asteroids , but that's lawyers for you. Instead, just to be safe (and also because it was a failure) I simply unpublished it.

As for Apple's App Store, they at least vet the apps beforehand, but it can still result in delays. In one of my apps on the help screen there was a paragraph on how the app is also available for Android, and this resulted in my app being rejected. I was told (by a human reviewer) I can't refer to any competing platforms in my iOS apps. I had to go through the approval process again and it took another 9 days for them to approve it (total 20 days), so beware of mentioning that your game is also on Android.


PS: are we two the only "Bloodnets" in this place?

I knew Ghostdog's avatar is the default Ransom Stark, but it bothered me I couldn't place your avatar even though I played Bloodnet a lot.
 

DavidBVal

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As for your suspension, I'm going to play devil's advocate here and say that Google doesn't really have much choice but to sanction mentioning other high-profile games in the descriptions. Due to the volume of app submissions and their business model, they can't vet apps to confirm that they are indeed inspired by whatever game their mention in the description. And if they are similar, would that be less or more of a problem? If they allowed apps to mention other big-name titles, some pregnant pony simulator clone would also have Diablo in the description and whatever else their authors thought could bring them more views.
Or Google could simply disregard the words in the descriptions from search results, but then your game would have to be called Exiled Kingdoms 2D Isometric RPG with Quests and Exploration.
And they suspended your package name permanently as a punitive measure, even though you could have changed that description in 10 seconds.

Know what? I agree. But then why not clearly banning any mention of similar products?

Here is the actual guidelines and rules: https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answer/2985717?hl=en

the only thing remotely appliable would be:

The title or description should not be loaded with irrelevant keywords in an attempt to manipulate ranking or relevancy in Google Play search results.

For example, if your app has nothing to do with Lady Gaga, then she shouldn’t be included in your description. Also, do not add highly searched, irrelevant keywords that are unrelated to the function of the app. This is in breach of policy.

Wouldn't it be simpler and clearer to say something like:
never use the name of third party products, companies or brands in your app description, unless that mention is essential to understanding your app function. Example: "Skyrim overland map explorer" is valid. But don't mention other products simply because they are similar to yours. Example, don't say "inspired by Skyrim".
That Lady Gaga example is completely misleading, especially when the example is about a turtle puzzle game.

Agreed with Apple doing things right here, or so I hope. Beginning to work on the apple deploy now.

Incidentally, Darklands is probably my favorite game of all time, PM me the name so I can play!
 

Guy de Incognito

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Know what? I agree. But then why not clearly banning any mention of similar products?
Here is the actual guidelines and rules: https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answer/2985717?hl=en

I don't know, probably because there are other legitimate cases for mentioning similar products, if something is licensed or if an offshoot developer is making a sequel or spin off. Any fair reading of the rules would allow you to mention the games you mentioned, but there's probably a disconnect between whoever whenever wrote those rules, and whatever system is tasked with enforcing them. As I said, there's a whole lot of incompetence behind the shiny high tech veneer of Google (and probably any other similarly large corporation).

But the reason they don't want to allow that is that any first person shooter would then have Call of Duty and Battlefield in the description and every racing game would have Need for Speed somewhere, and quite legitimately too. Google's bread and butter is providing relevant quality search results, so they err on the side of acting like paranoid assholes.


Agreed with Apple doing things right here, or so I hope. Beginning to work on the apple deploy now.

I'm planning to port my own game on iOS and I also used Libgdx so I'd be very much interested in the process you used to port. I think you have to buy something called RoboVM, but it's only for OS X and I'm still trying to scrounge enough money for a Mac.

Incidentally, Darklands is probably my favorite game of all time, PM me the name so I can play!

To be fair, only interacting with locations is like Darklands, the rest of the game is not really very much like it - it's a fairly simple/streamlined mobile game. You posted in my thread a while back, so you've probably played it already (or decided not to, heh). I also sent you the link to my thread in my first PM but I forgot to bold it so you probably didn't see it's a link.
 
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DavidBVal

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Hey Infinitron , would you mind changing the thread title to "publishing games in the Play Store / App store"? I think it's better if we pool here our experiences and woes, instead of making a thread about just my game.
 

Infinitron

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Hey Infinitron , would you mind changing the thread title to "publishing games in the Play Store / App store"? I think it's better if we pool here our experiences and woes, instead of making a thread about just my game.

I can't, but you can. Thread Tools -> Edit Title
 

DavidBVal

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I found some very informative article on common mistakes to avoid. I wish I had found it earlier:

http://www.xda-developers.com/google-play-store-policies-and-common-mistakes-to-avoid/

An excerpt:

Your newly made calculator is absolutely mind boggling — it can do everything! Naturally, you want to let your users know about the endless possibilities, so you decide to list them quickly:

Features: Multiplication, addition, subtraction, division, real/imaginary numbers, powers, graphs, equation solving, functions and more!

This is considered spam. Instead, write a few sentences explaining what your app does without stuffing keywords:

This calculator app supports all of the normal operations you’d expect from a calculator. It also supports functions and graphs, can solve equations easily and more!
 

gaussgunner

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Interesting thread. Nevertheless,

I follow these simple rules to save time and butthurt:
1. Do not install apps from Google Play .. Apple.. Amazon ...or Steam?
2. Do not develop mobile apps


My kids composed and recorded a small piece, for the Town Hall menus. You can listen to it here

I had to speculate on which esteemed 17th century composer wrote it, until I reread your sentence. That is the perfect background music. Understated, not too busy, but still interesting. Give your kids a brofist for me.

Yep. No warning, just removed, for 4 reasons, none of which actually have any grounds even re-reading their documentation.

:rage:

Hate confirmed. Fuck the corporate walled gardens.

Here is a very interesting piece of information that everyone thinking about RPG development should consider.
Downloads by country, in the RPG category, past saturday 30th

a1BIu.jpg

Now you know, what translations to priorize...

ENGRISH or CHINGLESE? :lol:

Wait... you've already confirmed that Google's RPG bucket overfloweth with non-RPG shit, so these stats are utterly meaningless. Big data FTF!
 

DavidBVal

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It is ALIIIIIIIIIVEEEEEEEE! https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.fdgames.ek.android

Google emailed me this morning... they "asked" me to remove that line mentioning the "inspired by" classic titles, which I find very reasonable. I did and I'm up again.

Men, this weekend I've truly gone through some shit with this suspension thing. In a way, I think they did me a favor. Worked real hard on the iOS build, which I was neglecting.

I had to speculate on which esteemed 17th century composer wrote it, until I reread your sentence. That is the perfect background music. Understated, not too busy, but still interesting. Give your kids a brofist for me.

Thanks, I'll tell them. It's an exercise for my son's composition class, done in a couple hours. He said "hey I think this would fit as a theme for a shop or similar" and I agreed, so my daughter played and recorded it with her keyboard.

Wait... you've already confirmed that Google's RPG bucket overfloweth with non-RPG shit, so these stats are utterly meaningless. Big data FTF!

Yeah, but still, it is worth it. there's RPGs there, and more as you go up in the rankings, and I am sure eventually they'll get serious with the categorization.

I sympathize with your hate towards these corporations controlling the distribution channels, but I'll play devil's advocate, even if one of them just ripped me a new one for the whole weekend. Mobile application market didn't exist until Apple (and later Google) created it out of thin air. PC Gaming existed, but at least here in Spain it was seriously declining, and was mostly piracy, until Steam arrived. I believe, corporations have been beneficial to the industry, making for devs easier than ever to reach millions of people; all of it for a 30% fee, sure, but there was no way, 10 years ago, I could have made a game that was played by so many thousands of people worldwide.

Of course their antics suck, they treat developers as cogs, they censor nudity. But it's the new scenario. Probably pulp magazines were also considered a disgusting, degrading media by serious writers/readers in the early-to-mid XX century, yet they became the media were fantasy literature became what it became. I think the new formats must be valued for their ability to reach new users/readers/players, and in that, the mobile marketplaces excel.
 

DavidBVal

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So when will there be a turn-based version? :M

Heh. I'm not sure I'll do a TB version of this same game, after all it would require a completely different ruleset and mechanics. But for sure my next game will be turn based. 2016 is going to be popamole year for me I'm afraid :D
 

Guy de Incognito

Ensit Media
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Finally got to play it and it's great. I liked the story/premise (the exiled kingdoms), the funny bits of writing and that the interaction with the NPC at the beginning, giving you something to get worked up about. Such emotional hooks draw me in far more than pretty graphics.

Speaking of which, as others have said the UI could be more polished, and the style and quality of the cutscene, loading and menu images is inconsistent. Also character animation, the player has walking and running speeds but only running animation. You of course know all this, and it's just a matter of getting an artist to redo the most jarring bits.
Oh and a minor issue, the game doesn't exit when I press back on the main menu screen. I'm sure this doesn't bother a lot of people, but since I'm old, I like to be able to exit games instead of pressing the home button and trusting Android to manage/reclaim resources when needed.

So that's it, seems like a great game so far. Good on Google for restoring it.
 

DavidBVal

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Finally got to play it and it's great. I liked the story/premise (the exiled kingdoms), the funny bits of writing and that the interaction with the NPC at the beginning, giving you something to get worked up about. Such emotional hooks draw me in far more than pretty graphics.

Speaking of which, as others have said the UI could be more polished, and the style and quality of the cutscene, loading and menu images is inconsistent. Also character animation, the player has walking and running speeds but only running animation. You of course know all this, and it's just a matter of getting an artist to redo the most jarring bits.
Oh and a minor issue, the game doesn't exit when I press back on the main menu screen. I'm sure this doesn't bother a lot of people, but since I'm old, I like to be able to exit games instead of pressing the home button and trusting Android to manage/reclaim resources when needed.

So that's it, seems like a great game so far. Good on Google for restoring it.

Thanks. Yes, I am completely aware of the, let's say "variable quality" of assets, and as how the UI looks like if a programmer had done it :D I will tweak a few fonts and images here and there, but for the next months I will focus on coding and writing until the game is complete. In the meantime, as the game is making money, I'll begin contacting artists, and plan an overhaul of UI elements for sometime in the future. In fact, I already started, with new portraits (the first 3 male and 3 female were added recently).

As for back button, noted. There's a long and embarassing story behind that "choice", but I can make it work now, so I'll look into it in the next builds.

Update of situation: men, writing content takes a long time. Latest quests and locations I am adding are rich with dialogs, scripts, choices, unique items with new powers, etc. which really is slow to design and test. But it is fun.

Also, I am going to "lower my pants" and make a concession soon: multiple save slots. I wanted, originally, to make it real hardcore and avoid savescumming entirely, with just one save slot per character (think of Wizardry 6). the ultimate C&C design. Some players complained a lot, but in the end, it was accepted. The problem is that files are just files, and they can get corrupted, moreso in mobiles. And of course there's the ocassional bug that leaves someone trapped. So even if those cases are rare (a few dozens in over 100K hours played), players can't prevent them, nor solve them without my help once it happens. I was having a couple cases in my mailbox every morning, and I had to spend time on fixing savegames instead of writing content. Not to mention those I never learn about and just give up... So I'll allow multiple saving slots, and everyone will be happy. There's ironman mode for those that want to go completely hardcore, after all.

Downloads are still recovering from the "event", but going well. As soon as I finish Alpha 0.7, I'll focus in releasing the iOS build, which probably will bring interesting things to share as well.
 

DavidBVal

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I'm not sure what happened a few days ago but... the download and sales had an enormous increase. Like, crazy big increase. Exiled Kingdoms is now in the top 100 RPGs in many countries, including US, UK, Canada. Working like crazy on the game now, hardly any time to come here and post, mostly because of the iOS build... which works like a charm, but due to a design flaw from the early days, forced me to remake all my 60 tiled maps. It's been a hell of a week but the huge success is a great substitute for sleep or rest.

Fun anecdote. I posted a question on the apple developers forum about publishing my game (they don't allow incomplete apps, and my game is still technically unfinished). Ten minutes later, I got a call from an Apple representative in California, explaining me every little detail about my inquiry, and even giving me advice. I've been an apple hater for many years, but seriously, after Google pushing the KILL APP button upon nothing, and getting this sweet tratment by apple, I begin seeing the differences between one and another. Might even go for an iphone as my next phone.

When I don't work on the game, I work on my turn-based system for 2017. Once the document is ready I'll publish it in another thread.
 

Severian Silk

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The name of your application is "Exiled Kingdoms RPG". I can understand if they consider that keyword stuffing, since the "RPG" is a bit superfluous.

Also, any plans to develop for Windows Phone?
 

DavidBVal

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Nah RPG is a fine word, if they say anything about that, I'll just ask them,

but what is an RPG?

Windows Phone doesn't support java applications in a "direct" way, I guess I can make it work via a wrapper, or maybe in the months until it's finished, someone will develop a proper VM like they did with RoboVM for iOS.

Incidentally, I am now a full time game dev! I had never worked so many hours per day in my life, but I love it. 4 days in, still no nervous breakdown. But looking at downloads/sales reports now feels much more ominous, heh.

Small iOS update: the game works fine, but I can't publish "incomplete apps" on the App Store. FUCK! So now trying to wrap it appropiately for them, this can delay my plans a bit.
 

DavidBVal

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I'm not sure what happened a few days ago but... the download and sales had an enormous increase. Like, crazy big increase.

Uh. Did you ever figure out why?

I think so, even if Google keep to themselves most of the info; they give me only a fraction of the data.

I ruled out anything external to the playstore itself, because Google tells me the increse in visits is "organic", i.e, not from links. So it's not a review in a popular site or anything.

I rule out ranking position, because when the increase started, I was stable around 200ish, and the increase was too sudden to be just that.

It is not "similar to..." . I know because, even if my position is great (listed as 7th to 10th similar app to BG, IWD, or Bard's Tale), that hasn't changed drastically, it just improved slowly.

However, I noticed many of my recommendations on Play Store, i.e., "recommended for you", have a note saying the recommendation comes from having installed "Exiled Kingdoms RPG". That definitely wasn't there a month ago. So I suppose that recommendation goes both ways, and many people is being recommended my game when they have certain games installed. As for why it happened so suddenly, well, probably Google needs time and data to "recommend" you like that, so in the first 3 months they kept gathering data, then finally at some point, their algorithms decided I was a good match. I am not surprised, data-wise I am great for them in all the good things: 4.4 stars ratings, a lot of reviews per download, and usually lenghty and containing good keywords, and a very high conversion rate (purchases per download). And likely, they don't even bother until you reach certain thresold, like 50K downloads or something like that, which I reached around a week before it went up.

For a few days, something happened again and the downloads went down, then they recovered. So yeah, I'm in for an emotional rollercoaster. But what's life without a little emotion? ;)
 

DavidBVal

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Couple days ago I reached 100K downloads. Google didn't send me champagne or a plaque or anything, but I keep my hopes high about hookers when I reach the next milestone, 500K
 

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