Torment PS:T + Lustmord

[iqzulk]

depending on how he structured the rewards would probably bring in about $10-15K, most of which would be spent on shipping and rewards.

Just wondering: is $10-15K his own estimate?

 

[Ninjerk]

PST retrospective.

Is that when you're supposed to do the PST let's play?
Come on, man, how long do we have to wait for that? We're not immortal, you know?

After all, what is one LP worth?

 

[Surf Solar]

Just to remind everyone again how good this actually is.



Don't get me wrong, I love the work Mark Morgan&Co did to PS:T - but reading the source campaign material and watching that trailer... My mind portrays stuff much better in planes with Lustmord.

 

[Koschey]

Damn, I just LOVE that trailer.

Lost PS:T OST would be fucking

 

[CMcC]

If you all can help put together some research that indicates it would be worth his time to release this material, that would go a long way toward convincing him, I'm sure. Keep in mind that running a Kickstarter is essentially a full-time job, especially one that you anticipate will jump. He's currently involved in some big projects, so there'd have to be an upside for him beyond just getting this music out - exposure's nice, but I'm pretty sure he'd rather pay his bills since he's already got exposure to some pretty major film/game industry people.

tl;dr: Put together some realistic projections and I'll pass em along.

 

[iqzulk]

Put together some realistic projections

I guess, the only way to do this is to run the goddamn petition after all.

2all: Did a draft. How does it look?

Spoiler

Did you know that Planescape: Torment once had an alternate soundtrack, that was entirely different from the soundtrack the game ended up with, and that wasn't written by Mark Morgan? It did.

This soundtrack was composed by a person, most widely known as Lustmord (real name: Brian Williams), and consisted of 46 tracks. It was taken out only after the game entered beta-testing, 6 (six) weeks before its release. Mark Morgan's soundtrack, the one this game ended up with instead, was composed after that, over the course of mere 2 (two) weeks.

The only surviving track from this soundtrack can be found in these two official trailers from the game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s2Qkx3lN5s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KpL2S-ceho

Another 10 minutes (of 90-100 minutes total) were integrated into Lustmord's album "Metavoid":
http://lustmord.bandcamp.com/album/metavoid

All the other material now exists only in the possession of Lustmord himself.

In order to remaster the soundtrack and to make it into a full-fledged release, time and effort are needed. Brian is a professional musician, and for him, taking his time to remaster the soundtrack (or even to possibly run a fundraising Kickstarter campaign for it) would mean taking this time from some other projects. There needs to be an objective proof that his time and money wouldn't be wasted on this project, and that there is enough interest from the fans of the game to justify the effort. Providing this kind of objective proof is the purpose of this petition.

Signing this petition, you attest that you are interested in Lustmord's unreleased Planescape: Torment soundtrack, and that you would either puchase a copy of the soundtrack (be it the entire remastered album, a number of tracks from it, or the original source files ready to be re-integrated into the game) in any available form after its release, or support the Kickstarter fundraising campaign for this soundtrack (should there be any).

This soundtrack is a major and intriguing lost page of Torment's history - and without your vote it would probably stay lost forever. This is your chance to change it.

Thank you for your attention and time.

CMcC, I also have a couple of questions for you regarding this whole issue. This information could be used in order to make the petition more accurate and specific. I would really appreciate, if you took a couple of minutes of your time in order to answer them (the answers could be as short as you'd like).
1) Is the $10-15K number you mentioned above Brian's personal estimate or your own personal estimate? Please, this is an incredibly important issue (at least, for me), and I would really appreciate if you answered at least this one question.
2) When did the soundtrack switch happen exactly? Is the information about "6 weeks before the release" (with the release date being December 12, 1999) correct?
3) You said that you liked and fully supported this soundtrack. The same, apparently, could also be said about Guido Henkel (moreover, from what I understand, the switch only became possible after Guido's resignation). What were Chris Avellone's and Brian Fargo's personal opinions/positions concerning this soundtrack? Did they like this soundtrack and find it appropriate for the game as well?

 

[Jaesun]

I still remember seeing that trailer for the first time (IIRC it is on the Tales of the Sword Coast install disc). That blew me away, and that music was just awesome.

 

[CMcC]

I guess, the only way to do this is to run the goddamn petition after all.

That would probably go a long way toward convincing him, yeah. Keep in mind that he would also have to find and convert the files from his old formats into something current.

1) Is the $10-15K number you mentioned above Brian's personal estimate or your own personal estimate? Please, this is an incredibly important issue (at least, for me), and I would really appreciate if you answered at least this one question.

That's my estimate, assuming 1000 people would pay 10 dollars. My estimates of potential audiences aren't great, but given that many people prefer their music to be free, I'd rather err on the side of caution. I imagine Brian's estimates for his 15-year-old work would be lower.

2) When did the soundtrack switch happen exactly? Is the information about "6 weeks before the release" (with the release date being December 12, 1999) correct?

That seems right. I remember he was working on it through the summer, but I don't remember the exact dates.

3) You said that you liked and fully supported this soundtrack. The same, apparently, could also be said about Guido Henkel (moreover, from what I understand, the switch only became possible after Guido's resignation). What were Chris Avellone's and Brian Fargo's personal opinions/positions concerning this soundtrack? Did they like this soundtrack and find it appropriate for the game as well?

Guido said he liked it. I don't recall Chris's position, though I think he liked it as well--probably not as vociferously as I did. I don't know about Brian, but I'm planning to run some Lustmord past him when I get out to California next week. Keep in mind that to Brian's endorsement would have to be carefully worded in order not to undercut Mark Morgan.

 

[m_s0]

Holy shit. Colin sweeps in and saves the day (or at least saves quite a bit of hassle)

 

[Sensuki]

would pay 10 dorra

 

[m_s0]

Enough people would if only they were aware of the soundtrack switch and all that. It's still a fairly obscure bit of trivia, unfortunately.

 

[iqzulk]

Keep in mind that he would also have to find and convert the files from his old formats into something current.

If the "old format" is the combination of .acm and .mus files, then he could use some fan-made tools (should he fail to get a hold of the official tools that were used to encode those files in the first place) as described in this guide. It's possible that they could introduce some undesirable sound artifacts while converting though - don't know anything about that.

That's my estimate, assuming 1000 people would pay 10 dollars. My estimates of potential audiences aren't great, but given that many people prefer their music to be free, I'd rather err on the side of caution. I imagine Brian's estimates for his 15-year-old work would be lower.

Thanks for the answer! So he didn't mention any numbers after all...

Guido said he liked it. I don't recall Chris's position, though I think he liked it as well--probably not as vociferously as I did. I don't know about Brian, but I'm planning to run some Lustmord past him when I get out to California next week. Keep in mind that to Brian's endorsement would have to be carefully worded in order not to undercut Mark Morgan.

I was thinking about collecting statements/quotes from you, Chris, Guido (I'll probably try to reach both of them via twitter), Brian (Fargo; I'll wait for the results of that listening session you mentioned above), maybe also Eric Campanella (found his YouTube account, hope he still checks his messages there) about this soundtrack - and using those statements as the addendum, after the main petition text, in order to give it more weight and to heighten the chances of media coverage on the event.

Is there any chance you could make a short personal_opinion/statement to quote there? Or could you, at least, give a permission to quote this post there?

I would also be thankful if you could point me to other key members of the PS:T team who were supportive of Lustmord's soundtrack.

 

[tuluse]

@iqzuilk the draft of the petition reads good to me. I think the hard part is going to be marketing it. Someone (probably you) is going to have to post it to various forums trying to raise awareness of it.

 

[m_s0]

Keep in mind that he would also have to find and convert the files from his old formats into something current.

If the "old format" is the combination of .acm and .mus files, then he could use some fan-made tools (should he fail to get a hold of the official tools that were used to encode those files in the first place) as described in this guide. It's possible that they could introduce some undesirable sound artifacts while converting though - don't know anything about that.

Come on, give the guy some credit. He's a walking legend when it comes to recording, mixing and all that. He can probably handle converting some files Not to mention that, assuming he still has them, I highly doubt they are compressed.

I was thinking about collecting statements/quotes from you, Chris, Guido (I'll probably try to reach both of them via twitter), Brian (Fargo; I'll wait for the results of that listening session you mentioned above), maybe also Eric Campanella (found his YouTube account, hope he still checks his messages there) about this soundtrack - and using those statements as the addendum, after the main petition text, in order to give it more weight and to heighten the chances of media coverage on the event.

Is there any chance you could make a short personal_opinion/statement to quote there? Or could you, at least, give a permission to quote this post there?

I would also be thankful if you could point me to other key members of the PS:T team who were supportive of Lustmord's soundtrack.

The thing is, you can get endorsements from everyone you want, but if you post it cold no one will notice anyway.

 

[iqzulk]

I think the hard part is going to be marketing it. Someone (probably you) is going to have to post it to various forums trying to raise awareness of it.

Well, yeah, also concerns writing to representatives of videogaming media sites (I should probably start collecting the contact information of writers of those aforementioned PS:T retrospectives as well of the ones who covered the news on Tides of Numenera), I guess.

Also, I think posting these news on various forums (as Sorcerers, GameBanshee, Obsidian forums, GOG forums, NeoGAF and SomethingAwful - don't even have access to those two BTW, etc.) should probably be better done by the people who are active members of the communities there. The guy with zero previous posts (and I have an exactly such an amount on all the forums I mentioned above), registering on the day of launching the petition and creating a promotional forum thread for the petition would probably look like an annoying spammer or something. Not that I'm slacking off or something, but... just a thought.

Come on, give the guy some credit. He's a walking legend when it comes to recording, mixing and all that. He can probably handle converting some files Not to mention that, assuming he still has them, I highly doubt they are compressed.

He DID mention this:

though I don't think I have any of the original files in a readable format...

here, so I guess it IS a bit of a problem after all.

The thing is, you can get everyone you want, but if you post it cold no one will notice anyway.

True.

 

[tuluse]

I think if you're upfront about what you're doing, people should be fine with it. Do people really get upset about a single thread where I guy says "I'm trying to do this project, will you help"?

I don't know, I'm not active on many forums.

 

[m_s0]

Come on, give the guy some credit. He's a walking legend when it comes to recording, mixing and all that. He can probably handle converting some files Not to mention that, assuming he still has them, I highly doubt they are compressed.

He DID mention this:

though I don't think I have any of the original files in a readable format...

here, so I guess it IS a bit of a problem after all.

Depends on what he meant by "readable". If they're corrupt, we're screwed. If not, I can't see why a proper set-up (perhaps relatively costly equipment) wouldn't be enough. If it was impossible, I doubt he'd bother to discuss any of this since he'd basically have to recreate music from 10-15 years ago for this project and that, from a technological standpoint, wouldn't involve any issues whatsoever but would be a ton of work which wouldn't pay well enough to justify the effort in the end.

Come to think of it, he didn't have any problems remastering his music from the early 90's fairly recently, so I really don't know. He probably took better care of that, though. Anyway, I'm just speculating.

 

[cherry blossom]

A petition should be fairly straightforward. I think we can muster out a thousand people out of all the online PST communities plus a mention by Chris and Brian would go a long way to raise awareness.

 

[Excommunicator]

Don't you think it would be a good idea to put more focus on reaching out to Lustmord fans? The soundtrack didn't get into the final PST game so for the PST fanbase that connection is nebulous at best, but it's still fundamentally Lustmord no matter which way you look at it.

I'm sure there would be way more than 1000 people who love Lustmord (but have no knowledge/interest in PST whatsoever) who would love to hear and pay for 1.5 hours of his music that has been hidden away for more than a decade.

 

[tuluse]

Would Lustmord fans care for the PST soundtrack over his new projects? Wouldn't they want him to work on whatever he wants to?

 

[Excommunicator]

Would Lustmord fans care for the PST soundtrack over his new projects?

It isn't about one or the other. This is music already (or almost) done, it's not a project he's being asked to start from scratch. They aren't equivalent.

The PST connection would be little more than source inspiration as far as most people are concerned.

Wouldn't they want him to work on whatever he wants to?

What kind of question is that? He's not being forced to do anything. What's in question is not whether or not he wants to to X or Y, it's whether or not he feels he will be able to make the effort worthwhile, and that's up to fans to prove.

 

[iqzulk]

Excommunicator, well, the thing is, during 1994-1999, Brian worked on a LARGE number of movies (like, here is the partial list - and I'm pretty sure, I saw number 30 somewhere else) - and, well, I can imagine PS:T soundtrack being perceived by Brian's fans as "Oh yeah, that, just another odd job, nothing interesting". That - and the thing about most of the tracks being

short 1-2 min tracks

which, I imagine, is also not something Lustmord fans would be ecstatic about.
Well, it would probably be possible to pitch it as a "lost album very similar to Metavoid" (since he talked about the influence between PS:T soundtrack and Metavoid himself) but I don't even know if that album is all that popular among Lustmord fans (I happened to stumble upon some very negative comments about it across the web).
Moreover, writing the message to Lustmord's fans in the main petition text would probably make the petition longer and less focused without adding anything at all for the PS:T fans (who, I still think, would constitute the majority of potential signatures). I guess, it would make sense to create a thread on Lustmord's forums (which, come to think of it, don't seem to have all that much activity as of right now) with a special message to Lustmord fans (without altering the main petition text), but you'll probably need a person who really knows his shit when it comes down to Lustmord's albums, in order to pitch PS:T album to them the right way and to be perceived as a fellow fan (who I'm not, since I've only ever heard that Metavoid album of his). Oh, and I have no idea whatsoever as to any other musical forums, and as to where else could those Lustmord fans be found at all.

 

[tuluse]

Would Lustmord fans care for the PST soundtrack over his new projects?

It isn't about one or the other. This is music already (or almost) done, it's not a project he's being asked to start from scratch. They aren't equivalent.

The PST connection would be little more than source inspiration as far as most people are concerned.

Wouldn't they want him to work on whatever he wants to?

What kind of question is that? He's not being forced to do anything. What's in question is not whether or not he wants to to X or Y, it's whether or not he feels he will be able to make the effort worthwhile, and that's up to fans to prove.

Colin wrote in this thread that Lustmord is busy with other projects. So I assumed he would rather be working on those projects since the evidence that we have is that he is working on them instead of releasingb the PST soundtrack.

 

[m_s0]

Excommunicator, well, the thing is, during 1994-1999, Brian worked on a LARGE number of movies (like, here is the partial list - and I'm pretty sure, I saw number 30 somewhere else) - and, well, I can imagine PS:T soundtrack being perceived by Brian's fans as "Oh yeah, that, just another odd job, nothing interesting". That - and the thing about most of the tracks being

short 1-2 min tracks

which, I imagine, is also not something Lustmord fans would be ecstatic about.

Uh, why's the length a problem?

I guess, it would make sense to create a thread on Lustmord's forums (which, come to think of it, don't seem to have all that much activity as of right now) with a special message to Lustmord fans (without altering the main petition text), but you'll probably need a person who really knows his shit when it comes down to Lustmord's albums, in order to pitch PS:T album to them the right way and to be perceived as a fellow fan (who I'm not, since I've only ever heard that Metavoid album of his). Oh, and I have no idea whatsoever as to any other musical forums, and as to where else could those Lustmord fans be found at all.

Posting it there wouldn't hurt, but that forum never was all that active and these days it seems pretty much dead. Anyway, I listen to Lustmord and I enjoy Metavoid, but I guess it's not grimdark enough for some people. What I don't get is how anyone is supposed to "pitch it" not knowing how it sounds. There's literally one short sample available (and we don't know how representative it is) and maybe a few bits on Metavoid, but these are less reliable. It's best to just include the trailer as a sample and post it along with a short explanation wherever it seems appropriate (anywhere there's interest in Torment for instance). I could post it myself on a few smaller forums, but you'll need to find someone else to do the same for Neogaf and SomethingAwful.

 

[meanwhileInPoland]

i played torment long time ago but i dont recall a lot of scenes and locations from that trailer. especially that tomb with columns and that strange mechanism. is it early concepts,cut content or just scenes for trailer? sorry for offtopic