Torment PS:T + Lustmord

[Surf Solar]

There are so many pieces of good music out there and as much as I love PS:T; I doubt any non-aspie particularly cares unless it can somehow be integrated back in to the game with a superior outcome than the original. Do you guys seriously sit down and listen to game soundtracks done, usually, by 3rd rate composers?

 

[Ninjerk]

This guy has no interest in doing this. I admit, though, I wish I could forget PS:T and play it again with the different soundtrack.

 

[GlutenBurger]

Lustmord might be right about interest in his music for the game. There's certainly strong interest for Planescape: Torment, but the music that it was released with has become ingrained in its legacy. A sizable portion of potential customers would likely regard the rejected soundtrack more as a novelty than as something they would want to purchase an album of.

 

[Akratus]

This is really tormenting us, huh guys?

Hey guys . . torment. . get it? Torment, guys.

 

[iqzulk]

Okay, cherry blossom (and, apparently, Vault Dweller) it seems like I could use your advise.

Here is my current draft (BTW, I won't quote any of the subsequent messages in the correspondence between me and Brian, should there ensue any - but I will, of course, try to explain/recount what's going on there in more general terms). The draft is still unfinished and very rough around the edges, but I was thinking about finishing it today, giving is a level of polish and sending it to Brian today or tomorrow.

What should I change (if any)? I know that the infodump in the first two parts of the message is quite heavy, but it was important for me to explain that there was A LOT happening on both PS:T-related and Kickstarter-related scenes during all this time.

Spoiler

Greetings. I am the person who conversed with you via Twitter about the Planescape:Torment (PS:T) soundtrack. In this message I'll try both to outline in great detail the current situation regarding PS:T, and to explain my entire line of thought regarding this whole matter as precisely and carefully as possible. {it's a temporary version of the beginning of the message, I'll certainly need to rewrite it}

1. Significance of PS:T.
PS:T (released in 1999) was a western role-playing game (wRPG) developed by Black Isle Studios (BIS) - a developmental division of Interplay. It was built using so-called Infinity Engine, which was, in turn, developed by a company called BioWare specifically for a game called Baldur's Gate (and subsequently licensed to PS:T developers). Baldur's Gate was published, once again, by Interplay and hit the shelves in 1998.
Because of the engine used, PS:T is often considered being an integral part of so-called "Infinity Engine games" group, consisting of Baldur's Gate 1-2 (1998 and 2000 respectively, BioWare), PS:T (1999, Black Isle Studios) and Icewind Dale (2000, again, Black Isle Studios). The significance of that group is that, along with FallOut 1&2 games (1997 and 1998 respectively, developed by Black Isle Studios using different engine) these games basically resurrected and REDEFINED the whole wRPG genre that was otherwise pretty much dead in the water since 1994. Probably, more than a half of wRPG-related games released after 2000 owe lot of their stuctural and gamedesign aspects both to FallOut games and Infinity Engine games. That is the reason Infinity Engine games are still fondly and vividly remembered by the fans of the genre.

>A bit of trivia to illustrate how the aforementioned games were perceived by videogame critics at their time:
>FallOut, 1997, mean score 89.69%: http://www.gamerankings.com/pc/197289-fallout/index.html
>FallOut 2, 1998, mean score 87.13%: http://www.gamerankings.com/pc/63576-fallout-2/index.html
>Baldur's Gate, 1998, mean score 91.94%: http://www.gamerankings.com/pc/75251-baldurs-gate/index.html
>Planescape: Torment, 1999, mean score 90.63%: http://www.gamerankings.com/pc/187975-planescape-torment/index.html
>Baldur's Gate 2, 2000, mean score 93.97%: http://www.gamerankings.com/pc/258273-baldurs-gate-ii-shadows-of-amn/index.html
>Icewind Dale, 2000, mean score 86.12%: http://www.gamerankings.com/pc/256221-icewind-dale/index.html​

Even being considered part of Infinity Engine games group, PS:T, however, also managed to radically differentiate itself from the rest of the games of the group and to establish a strong reputation of its own. The first reason for that was that the events of the game took place in a highly unconventional setting (in-game world) that was highly unusual in terms of design (at least in context of other videdeogames of its time), averted a lot of traditional fantasy cliches and directly encouraged (developers and players both) to consider a lot of themes that were extremely uncommon for videogames of that time (frequently delving in matters philosophical). The second reason was the insane amount of highly stylized literary text (for both ingame conversations and descriptions), the majority of which was written by a single person - Chris Avellone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Avellone - you might remember him from the time you were woking on the PS:T soundtrack) with the second writer being Colin McComb (who was also one of the creators of the original pen-and-paper Planescape setting, with other two creators being David "Zeb" Cook and Monte Cook [no relation] - with Zeb Cook being the MAIN creator of Planescape). PS:T was not only the most "talkative" game of the aforementioned bunch (both compared to FallOut games and Baldur's Gate games - and by FAR), but also was - and still is - one of the most "talkative" singleplayer-only videogames ever released (with the entire script with all the dialogue choices being ~5000 text pages or 800.000 wordslong). These are the main reasons why PS:T stuck in players' memories even when being considered a part of Infinity Engine group.

After Interplay and Black Isle Studios went under, Chris Avellone with some of his former colleagues found a new and independent company called Obsidian Entertainment (which was a videogame development company, specializing, once again, in wRPGs), managing to stay both afloat and relevant to the hardcore wRPG gaming scene until now. Moreover, during this time the company also released two games that were extremely reminiscent of PS:T in terms of writing and overall mood - Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II – The Sith Lords (which was radically different and distinctive from both the first Knights of the Old Republic game [developed by BioWare, by the way] and from the majority of Star Wars products as a whole) and Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer. The significance of those two games was that they, so to speak, kept the fire alive and indirectly helped to further establish the cult status of PS:T itself while also helping to keep the fanbase together.

These are the reasons that caused PS:T to stay relevant even despite the fact that the game was released 14 years ago (which is a huge period of time for videogames, because tend to show their age extremely fast compared to, say, books or movies). Just how relevant - that's what the next chapter is about.

Note: something to keep in mind for the further exposition.

Black Isle Studios games: FallOut 1&2, Planescape: Torment, Icewind Dale 1&2 (also helped BioWare on Baldur's Gate 2)
Infinity Engine games: Baldur's Gate 1&2, Planescape: Torment, Icewind Dale 1&2 (Icewind Dale 2 was released much later than the others)
Original pen-and-paper Planescape setting: David "Zeb" Cook, Monte Cook, Colin McComb
Planescape: Torment writing and gamedesign: Chris Avellone, Colin McComb​

2. Kickstarter.
a) On February 8, 2012, a videogame developer studio Double Fine Productions launched a crowdfunding campaign on a web service, called Kickstarter ( http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/doublefine/double-fine-adventure ). Double Fine was led by a person called Tim Schafer (completely unrelated to Planescape: Torment in any way). Much like Chris Avellone, Tim was a videogame scriptwriter and gamedesigner. In 90s he worked for LucasArts and was one of the main creators of a number of humorous point-and-click adventure games (which were basically LucasArts' trademark at the time as far as gaming was concerned) that were since considered cult classics of the genre, established their own genre tradition that was preserved by other developers ever since, and still have a strong cult following. After departure from LucasArts in around 2000, Tim established his own independent videogaming company (again, much like Chris Avellone), called (as noted above) Double Fine Productions. However, the games developed by that company (Psychonauts and Brutal Legend, for example) shifted heavily to being action-oriented instead of being pure puzzle-oriented adventure games. They did still retain the witty writing that was Tim's trademark, but many of fans of those old adventure games just didn't like the aforementioned gameplay shift, especially since these new games had significant gameplay problems of their own.

The deal Tim offered via kickstarter was very simple. He proposed to create a "classical adventure game" from a blank slate, without any kind of publisher's influence, with extensive cooperation with all the fans during the development, while also showing the aforementioned fans in detail what it's like to create a (classical adventure) game. And asked for 400.000$ in donations (in advance) to make that happen. It was a bit more complex than that, of course. If someone pledged 15$, then that person would both receive his own copy of the game right after its release and gain access to the game community which would allow that person to provide input concerning the development of the game. If that someone pledged 30$, that person also received a detailed documentary explaining every little aspect of the development process. The more someone pledged - the more merchandise and more service he was obliged to receive both during the development of the game and right after its release.

Now, kickstarter basically operates like this. Developer (writer, musician, director) sets up a goal (in case of Double Fine Adventure, DFA, the goal was 400.000$) and the amount of time campaign is going to be open (in case of DFA, the funding period was 33 days), he specifies exactly what the rewards tiers are (what exactly the pledger will eventually receive for a such and such donation) and he composes a pitch video and text to coerce the potential pledger into supporting the project. If the campaign manages to get more than the amount specified until the time runs out, then he gets the money and begins the development while releasing an occasional update to the anticipating backers/pledgers. And then, in time, he finishes the development and sends every pledger the merchandise that person paid for. If, however, the campaign is short for even 5$ by the time the campaign ends (for example, having 399.995$ instead of 400.000$) - then it's over, the campaign fails, and the developer (writer, director, etc.) doesn't get any money at all (all the money is transfered to the developer only AFTER the campaign is successfully concluded). If the campaign collects the requested sum of money, one could also set some stretch goals, promising to implement some costly extra features should the campaign collect, say, twice or thrice the amount of money it was originally set to. Basically the whole thing is a kind of a middle ground between donation system and pre-ordering system with a couple of extra rules.

Double Fine Productions needed to make a self-imposed limit of 400.000$ in donations/pledges over the self-imposed course of 33 days.

The 400.000$ mark was hit in just 8 hours ( http://www.vg247.com/2012/02/09/double-fine-launches-kickstarter-to-fund-untitled-adventure-game ). In 24 hours Double Fine already had 1 million in donations. And by the end of the campaign they had 3.3 millions (not including non-Kickstarter Paypal pledges), more than 8 times they were initially asking. The game is still in development, by the way. Again, here is the link to that campaign: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/doublefine/double-fine-adventure

Double Fine Productions established an important precedent. Before their campaign, Kickstarter was used only by very small semi-amateur... basically, one-man-teams. Double Fine was the first professional team with a significant cult following to test the waters there. After them, a lot more followed.

b) The next major videogame-related Kickstarter campaign was created by Brian Fargo (by the way, he was a co-owner of Interplay at the time you were working on the soundtrack to PS:T, you might remember him: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Fargo ; he is also important in the light of subsequent developments). Almost immediately after it became clear that Double Fine Aventure was going to get funded a BIG time, he started talking about creating a direct sequel to Wastland - a 1988 western role-playing game - a sequel he planned to create foryears, but couldn't procure the funding needed. What's interesting - is that the very first FallOut game was not only produced by Fargo - but also was a sort of spiritual successor to it, and even had the official tagline "Remember Wasteland?". A lot of hardcore wRPG fans (even who haven't played Wasteland) were aware about the ties between the first Wasteland and first FallOut games - and this connection helped Wasteland2's campaign TREMENDOUSLY. Fargo also managed to assemble together a lot of key people who worked on either the first Wasteland, classical FallOuts or some other famous Interplay wRPGs mentioned above (even procuring services of Chris Avellone and Colin McComb as some of the writers working on the game), thus making this connection even more evident.

The campaign started immediately after the Double Fine campaign concluded, and was set to 900.000$ with a funding period of 35 days. In ended up with 2.9 millions which was only a bit less than the amount Double Fine Adventure managed to receive. Link: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/wasteland-2

The next one was, if I remember correctly Shadowrun Returns - http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1613260297/shadowrun-returns - which collected 1.8 million. From that point the "craze" seemingly went downhill, projects were collecting less and less, a couple of failed high-profile kickstarter campaigns happened - and it began to seem Kickstarter "boom" is slowly dissipating. However~

c) This is where it becomes directly relevant to Planescape: Torment. Almost immediately after success of Double Fine Adventure campaign became apparent (8-9th of February, 2012):

Feb 10, 2012; Chris Avellone's Twitter account - http://twitter.com/ChrisAvellone/status/167778384162717696
"@Chrisavellone I'd kickstart $500 for an old school isometric RPG. For Planescape 2? $1000." - "@Msanton1 Hmmmm. I admit, I've got Kickstarter fever now. I feel like a bunch of doors suddenly appeared in game development."

Feb 10, 2012; official Obsidian forums - http://forums.obsidian.net/blog/1/entry-158-if-obsidian-kickstarter/
Chris Avellone: "Out of curiosity, if Obsidian did Kickstart a project, what would you want to see funded?" -> 35 page discussion after that

Jul 24, 2012; an interview with Chris Avellone named "Return to the Wasteland: Obsidian's Chris Avellone" - http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-07-24-obsidians-chris-avellone
"One last thing. Tempted by a Planescape Kickstarter?" - Chris Avellone: "Yes! Very tempted."
Reaction to the interview - http://www.google.com.ua/search?q=july 2012 chris avellone planescape

Aug 20, 2012; an interview with Chris Avellone named "The Guy Who Made Planescape: Torment Tells Us What A Spiritual Successor Would Look Like": http://kotaku.com/5935737/the-guy-w...us-what-a-spiritual-successor-would-look-like

One thing to note from the last two interviews is that the game was not intended to be a _Planescape_ (i.e. taking place in licensed Planescape setting) game, both due to the difficulties with obtaining the license for using the setting (the license owner - company named Wizards of the Coast - didn't have any interest in either developing the setting or licensing it to anyone for years at that moment) and due to the unwillingness of Obsidian and Chris Avellone to build the game around the set of Dungeons&Dragons rules that Planescape setting would imply. It was therefore intended to be a sort of "spiritual sequel" to Planescape: Torment, much like aforementioned Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II The Sith Lords and Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer were, only without constraints of any publisher.

------------------------
c1) Meanwhile, on August 17, 2012, Monte Cook, one of the creators of the original Planescape setting announces the kickstarter campaign for his new pen-and-paper RPG set (including both new original setting and new set of rules) aiming for 20.000$ and 39 days. His campaign manages to collect 517.255$, more than 25 times the amount he asked for. This fact (although speaking volumes about the level of admiration towards original pen-and-paper Planescape setting) will become more significant later. Link to the campaign: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1433901524/numenera-a-new-roleplaying-game-from-monte-cook
------------------------​

Obsidian's kickstarter campaign finally launched on September 14, 2012, more than 7 months after the start of the original Double Fine Adventure campaign (February 8). The name of the game was "Project Eternity" and the crowdfunding campaign for it was set to 1.100.000$ and 32 days.

Due the the slow fading of the "kickstarter craze" during the time during all that time and due to more hefty budget Obsidian needed in order to make Project Eternity happen, they decided to play it safe. Instead of pitching the game as a follow-up to Planescape: Torment _specifically_, they decided to pitch it as a follow-up to the Infinity Engine games in general (Baldur's Gate 1-2, Planescape: Torment, Icewind Dale 1-2), while also mentioning some other, later, games some members of their team have previously worked on (namely, Arcanum and Temple of Elemental Evil).

Project Eternity managed to hit 1.1 million mark in a bit more than 24 hours after the launch of the campaign. Moreover, in the final days of the campaign it managed to surpass the original Double Fine Adventure campaign (which, with its 3.3 million, was the the most funded "kickstarted" videogame at the moment), clocking off at 3.986.929$ (and more than 4 million if you count the non-Kickstarter Paypal pledges), becoming the most funded "kickstarter" videogame of its time itself. Link to the Project Eternity campaign: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity

However, it wasn't the end of story for Kickstarter and Planescape: Torment.

d) On November 30, 2012, having finished his part of the work on Wasteland 2, Colin McComb (the second writer of Planescape: Torment, as well as one of the creators of the original Planescape setting) posted a blog post titled "What's Next?", where he discussed a possibility of creating a proper Planescape: Torment follow-up: http://colinmccomb.com/?p=157

On December 3, 2012, it was revealed that Torment follow-up is indeed being actively considered by Brian Fargo (along with the development of Wasteland 2) with Colin McComb being the creative lead. It was also revealed that the game wouldn't use the official Planescape setting (due both to licesing difficulties and to the desire to move away from the traditional Dungeons&Dragons set of mechanics) thus being a "spiritual sequel", and that Chris Avellone (the main PS:T writer) probably wouldn't take part in the creation of the game, having his hands full with Project Eternity (which, by that time, departed significantly from being a pure PS:T follow-up it was initially concieved to be) development and at the same time "giving his blessings" to Colin McComb's team. Link to the article with the announcement: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...-blesses-inxiles-planescape-torment-successor

On January 9, 2013, Brian Fargo (already mentioned in relation to Wasteland 2 campaign in part b) ), who was in the middle of developing Wasteland 2 at the time, announced his intention to undertake a second project: a proper Torment sequel with Colin McComb as creative lead and main writer. The game wouldn't use the official Planescape setting (primarily because of difficulties with obtaining the license), but would rather use... the aforementioned Numenera setting (discussed briefly in part c1) ). That move enabled the team to both circumvent the Planescape licensing issue in a pretty smart manner (using a sort of a "spiritual successor" to Planescape setting [note that the main creator of the Planescape setting was David "Zeb" Cook, who had no relation to either new Numenera setting or the new Torment videogame!] as a setting for the "spiritual successor" to Planescape: Torment) AND to reunite two of the three main persons who worked on the original Planescape setting (with Monte Cook being now directly involved with the game project as well; and with David "Zeb" Cook - the main creator of Planescape - still missing from the picture). In any case, Fargo also announced, that this project would also have Kickstarter campaign somewhere along the way. Link to the article with the announcement: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/01/09/planescape-torment-sequel

Kickstarter campaign of this new project, now called Torment: Tides of Numenera, started on March 6, 2013, more than a year after Double Fine Adventure's campaign, with the goal being 900.000$ and the funding period being 30 days.

This project ended up collecting 1 million over the course of just _8_hours_ becoming the fastest Kickstarter project ever in that regard. In the end, Torment campaign collected 4.188.927$, thus surpassing Project Eternity and becoming the most funded videogame project on Kickstarter. It still keeps that title, as can be seen via this link: http://www.kickstarter.com/discover/categories/games/most-funded (Ouya isn't a videogame, but a gaming console - and, thus doesn't count; however, this list doesn't include the non-Kickstarter crowdfunding campaign for a videogame called Star Citizen, which was able to collect 25 millions [and counting]).

By the end of the campaign, it was announced, that Chris Avellone, although still busy working on Project Eternity WOULD take part in the creation of Torment: Tides of Numenera, although if in a relatively minor and overlooking role.

Link to the Torment: Tides of Numenera crowdfunding campaign: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/torment-tides-of-numenera

This concludes the "Kickstarter" portion of this letter.


3. Interest.

Now, to the main matter at hand. As you could see above, Planescape: Torment (as well as Infinity Games is general) and the original Planescape setting still manage to retain a sizeable fanbase, that is more than willing to pay in order to fund the follow-up projects both to the game (Project Eternity as an indirect follow-up in the same general style and by the same main writer + Torment: Tides of Numenera as a much more direct follow-up by a specifically assembled sort of "all-star team"; both of them ended up collecting >4 millions$ in donations) and to its setting (Numenera crowdfunding campaign that managed to collect 500.000$ in donations instead of 20.000$ it asked for). Beign an extremely major lost page of PS:T's history (just to think of it! a pretty much done alternative soundtrack, which was taken out mere weeks before the game's release, when it was already in beta!) - and considering your established reputation as a professional musician - I personally think, the remastered soundtrack is bound to sparkle the interest of both the videogaming press (EDGE magazine, IGN, Gamespot, RockPaperShotgun, Eurogamer, Kotaku, etc.) and all the fans (who, as the examples above showed in a very unambiguous manner, are more than willing to pay for their stuff). Not to mention, that some of your long-standing fans could also be interested in 90-100 minutes of previously unreleased material from Metavoid era.

Of course, the examples above provide only a very indirect way of estimating just how much interest would your soundtrack gather in reality, should you decide to spend your time remastering it. I understand that you might be unwilling to take that kind of chance, and to spend your time on something that may be not really worthy of it financially in the very end.

I see two ways of measuring the interest your soundtrack could sparkle in its potential audience, the most direct way possible. Those two ways are 1) Creating an online petition, and 2) Creating your own Kickstarter crowdfunding campaign.

In short, the "petition" route would require minimal effort on you part and would show you the potential number of buyers (with some amount of uncertainty). The "Kickstarter" route would require you to spend some time and effort, but will show you the exact amount of money all that audience is willing to pay for the album, while also procuring much more significant digital media coverage.

1) Me (or somebody else) creating an online petition requesting the commercial release of the soundtrack via such services as IPetitions.com or Change.org. Each vote the petition gets is one more potential buyer for the album. There are two major problems with this course of events though.

First of all, you have no guarantee, that each one of those who signs the petition will buy your album afterwords. Moreover, if the time period between the time of petition creation and eventual album release is significant, some of those who signed the petition might just change their mind or forget about it altogether (on the other hand, the more time the petition is out there, the more newcomers would manage to discover it in the meanwhile).

On my part, if creating a petition, I would need at least some kind of estimate from you of what you consider to be an "Okay, now this is worth my while" number, the concrete number of people that the petition should be directed towards, the concrete number of signatures that would indeed make you consider remastering and finally releasing that album.

The second problem is the promotion. The petition would probably need to make it from the very bottom up, purely via word of mouth on the initial phase, because I don't think that videogaming press would be interested in covering it without any official statements from you personally. As a result, a major part of the potential audience for the album could just stay unaware about the whole petition issue altogether. Moreover, I personally have no experience whatsoever with such campaigns as online petitions, I don't have any idea about how they should be formulated (although some amount of research on my part should alleviate that problem), promoted effectively (via forums, facebook, etc.) or any such thing. I think that the official statement (which would provide some sort of guarantee, that you WILL begin working on the album, should the petition reach such or such number of signatures) on your part shortly after the creation of the petition could alleviate at least part of those promotional problems though (since some gaming outlets would probably write a news post about both the statement and the petition).

This is the "creating online petition" route of directly estimating the interest. It will however require an absolutely minimal amount of activity on your part during the "estimation" phase. Basically, only the number the petition should be directed towards and, ideally, some sort of official statement that would both provide guarantees that you would indeed remaster the album should the petition be successful - and create some media coverage concerning the whole issue.

2) You creating your own Kickstarter campaign. It has the advantage of alleviating the "not everyone who signs the petition, buys the album afterwards" issue. It also has the advantage that the potential audience, who is interested in PS:T's legacy enough to pay for it, is, as the examples above (Numenera, Project Eternity, Torment: Tides of Numenera) have shown, very aware of Kickstarter and is used to operating via that service. Kickstarter is also available both in UK and US, so you should have no technical problems setting up the campaign. The videogaming media would also be, I imagine, quite willing to cover the event in gaming news, especially if you couple the start of the campaign with some sort of official statement to major videogaming news sites (EDGE, RockPaperShotgun, etc. - see the partial list above) or maybe also a couple of interviews about both the crowdfunding campaign and about your time working on the soundtrack 14-15 years ago.

The downside is that you would need to spend your time on that campaign. Writing and filming the campaign pitch, constructing the reward tiers (what extras and merchandise should pledger/backer recieve if he pays 40$ or 50$, instead of 10$ or 15$?) and stretch goals (what extras would you implement if, for example, the campaign ends up getting 1 million instead of 500.000$?), making the media statements - all of that is bound to take at least some amount of time and effort on your part. But, at the same time, that campaign is bound to have much more media coverage - and it would provide the most direct way of assessing whether people do indeed want that album or not. And after the successful completion of campaign (IF it indeed completes successfully) all the pledges would automatically carry on as the preorders both on the album and all the merchandize from the higher reward tiers (in any). Basically, if the campaign completes successfully, then you are ALREADY PAID the necessary minimum amount (if not more) for the album.

By the way, about the reward tiers. Am I correct to assume that the "unreadable" format that soundtrack is as of right now, is the combination of .mus and .acm files? If that is the case, then all the fans would also be VERY interested in those original files as well. Why? Because it could be possible, maybe with some extra scripting on fans' part, to re-integrate all those files back into the game (instead of the soundtrack it ended up with), so that the entire game could be played exactly the way it was meant to before those final weeks of development. Planescape: Torment is a game that is actively played and replayed even today, 14 years after its release - and the release of those original files would really be appreciated by all the fans of the game. Also, about the files being _UNREADABLE_ - here is a guide as to how you could convert those files to .wav format using fan-created tools, should you be unsuccessful with the obtaining the official tools, the ones you were using while creating that music in the first place: http://bootstrike.com/Torment/Online/music1.php

You were also talking about the possibility of re-exploring the original PS:T trailer theme in this Planescape thread on your forums: http://www.lustmord.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=259 And I personally think that writing extended versions of some of the crucial themes of the soundtrack would make for some excellent stretch goals for the campaign.

Anyways, that covers the "creating Kickstarter campaign" route of directly estimating the interest. It will require some amount of initial effort on your part - but the end result, I think, is well worth the trouble, compared to the "petition" route.

There may be some other ways of more or less directly estimating the interested, but as of right now I can't think of anything else.

{still need to finish it}

Also, yes, I'll definitely include this theme

The guy has made his position clear: "this is how I make money". Entice him with a channel to make money.

The idea that Torment originally had different music that all the devs, including MCA, was in agreement with must be marketed but the way you should talk about it to him is as if that already has happened and with a convincing enough effort, people are ready to buy an exclusive PST album. There is potential in this.

the most direct way possible, maybe even somewhere in the beginning of the message.

 

[iqzulk]

Lustmord might be right about interest in his music for the game. There's certainly strong interest for Planescape: Torment, but the music that it was released with has become ingrained in its legacy. A sizable portion of potential customers would likely regard the rejected soundtrack more as a novelty than as something they would want to purchase an album of.

It's still a MAJOR lost page from its history (especially considering the fact that it was swapped only after the game entered beta and Guido Henkel resigned), probably the biggest there is currently. Considering the professional reputation of Lustmord, I think that there's almost bound to be significant interest for the album (especially if he releases the original files, ready to be reintegrated into the game, as well - as a bonus to the main album). Of course, not everyone knows about this alternative soundtrack and the fact of Lustmord's involvement in the first place - and that's why the media coverage is needed (which, I think, at least some of videogaming media will be quite willing to provide after a couple of official statements or an interview, especially considering ZOMGZOMGZOMGPLANESCAPETORMENT!!!1!1! attitude of, say, RockPaperShotgun or Eurogamer).

 

[tuluse]

Don't rewrite the first paragraph, drop everything except the first sentence introducing yourself.

Drop the numbered points.

The whole thing is way to long and verbose. What the fuck does Lustmord care about Fallout or Black Isle or Chris Avellone? Most of what you have written is irrelevant and tl;dr. Here's the points to make: PS:T has a cult following, kickstarter is a way to connect directly to a niche audience, there is a good chance he could raise enough money to release the album if he understands the kind of people who would pledge and appeals to them.

Find some PS:T retrospectives (I think rps did one recently) to prove the lasting cult following. Then link to the T:ToN kickstarter. Then warn him he needs to take it seriously and put some work into presentation and not just throw something up if he wants it to work.

Also, don't use acronyms and initialisms, they're confusing to people who aren't familiar with them.

 

[Infinitron]

Don't rewrite the first paragraph, drop everything except the first sentence introducing yourself.

Drop the numbered points.

The whole thing is way to long and verbose. What the fuck does Lustmord care about Fallout or Black Isle or Chris Avellone? Most of what you have written is irrelevant and tl;dr. Here's the points to make: PS:T has a cult following, kickstarter is a way to connect directly to a niche audience, there is a good chance he could raise enough money to release the album if he understands the kind of people who would pledge and appeals to them.

Find some PS:T retrospectives (I think rps did one recently) to prove the lasting cult following. Then link to the T:ToN kickstarter. Then warn him he needs to take it seriously and put some work into presentation and not just throw something up if he wants it to work.

Also, don't use acronyms and initialisms, they're confusing to people who aren't familiar with them.

Perhaps somebody could volunteer to write it for him.

 

[tuluse]

It's so much easier to criticize others than actually make your own thing though

I'll give it a shot later today

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

I would fucking like it, guise.
If there will be a petition, I will sign it.

 

[Excommunicator]

Don't rewrite the first paragraph, drop everything except the first sentence introducing yourself.

Drop the numbered points.

The whole thing is way to long and verbose. What the fuck does Lustmord care about Fallout or Black Isle or Chris Avellone? Most of what you have written is irrelevant and tl;dr. Here's the points to make: PS:T has a cult following, kickstarter is a way to connect directly to a niche audience, there is a good chance he could raise enough money to release the album if he understands the kind of people who would pledge and appeals to them.

Find some PS:T retrospectives (I think rps did one recently) to prove the lasting cult following. Then link to the T:ToN kickstarter. Then warn him he needs to take it seriously and put some work into presentation and not just throw something up if he wants it to work.

Also, don't use acronyms and initialisms, they're confusing to people who aren't familiar with them.

I agree with all of these points. Writing too much can really damage your ability to get your point across.

 

[iqzulk]

Ouch.

Drop the numbered points.

Considering the tl;dr-iness of my draft (if that's still relevant in any way), I don't think that would be a good idea. With numbered points, there is at least some semblance of structure to the whole thing.

there is a good chance he could raise enough money to release the album if he understands the kind of people who would pledge and appeals to them.

Yes, because there is a magical switch up there somewhere. You just flip it - and BAM! - you suddenly understand everything, and without any effort as well. Researching stuff - nah, who needs that, that's for amateurs.
I mean, the entire infodump is there specifically so he could understand the "kind of people who would pledge", why they would pledge, and how much they've apparently pledged recently and in what situations exactly.

The whole thing is way to long and verbose. What the fuck does Lustmord care about Fallout or Black Isle or Chris Avellone?

1) Because he could remember the guy from the time he was working on the soundtrack. 2) Because I needed to explain, how exactly Project Eternity (and its Kickstarter success) connects to PS:T, and why its success should tell anybody anything about PS:T's contemporary cult following. 3) Because Chris Avellone's recommendation/support could matter for the success of the campaign (not covered in the draft). 4) Because I provided a context for the entire thing - and yes, MCA, Fargo and McComb (all three of whom he could actually remember) are significant figures in that context.

Most of what you have written is irrelevant and tl;dr. Here's the points to make: PS:T has a cult following, kickstarter is a way to connect directly to a niche audience, there is a good chance he could raise enough money to release the album if he understands the kind of people who would pledge and appeals to them.

And he is going to believe me (or somebody else), a random person from the Internet, just because..?

Find some PS:T retrospectives (I think rps did one recently) to prove the lasting cult following. Then link to the T:ToN kickstarter.

That's an excellent idea. Especially considering the history of him (apparently not) following the links so far. That's exactly the reason why I dubbed every piece of potentially important information in the message itself, even when there was a link just nearby.
And how should a random retrospective from a place the man probably haven't even heard about before, prove anything to anybody? I bet, he is perfectly aware, that the game has a couple of fans. Pretty much any not-complete-pile-of-crap game does. Chances are, that retrospection was simply written by such a fan. And as for reasons why the game still matters and is still remembered - I believe that I did explain just that in the first part of the draft (and more briefly and up to the point than in many of retrospections out there). I mean, I could throw some extra links just to show that I'm not the only person thinking that way - but that would just clutter the entire message even more.
The same thing goes about Kickstarter. How should an arbitrary Kickstarter link prove anything, if the man probably doesn't currently know how Kickstarter works, what's it all about, and why are all those people featured on the main campaign page? Moreover, in the twitter conversation I did pretty much that: I dumped two random Kickstarter links. Reaction?

Difficult to follow the thread of what you're trying to say

Then warn him he needs to take it seriously and put some work into presentation and not just throw something up if he wants it to work.

Warning somebody about doing something incorrectly, while that person in not even considering doing that, is kinda funny.

Also, don't use acronyms and initialisms, they're confusing to people who aren't familiar with them.

I tried to introduce those only after the first use of the corresponding phrase, but yeah, the entire thing was not thought out all that well.

Also, I'm not trying to argue that the draft should be perceived as the thing of utmost harmony, perfection and beauty, but some of the things there are written the way they are for pretty specific reasons. Of course, it's entirely possible those reasons could be utter shit themselves - and I won't try to defend myself on that point, as that could actually be true.

I agree with all of these points. Writing too much can really damage your ability to get your point across.

Well, I DO agree, that the message in its current form does have significant problems with "getting its point across". Not because of the infodump, mind you, but because of what's before and after it. Because I got lazy writing those parts - and they don't do their job in their current form.

As for tl;dr/longevity issue - I was basically thinking about warning the man about the size of the message and asking him for 15 minutes of his time upfront, so he could read the entire message properly / could give it a chance to explain itself and the entire PS:T situation. Of course, considering the current size of the message, that would be entirely dependent on his goodwill (or the absence of it).

____________________________________

Also, to make it clear, I don't have any problems with "stepping down" in case any person here really thinks he has a better understanding of what he is doing, and what the correct way to direct that conversation is. Also2, to make it even more clear, if I continue with my draft, it WILL (almost definitely) NOT shrink (and I probably won't be able to write another one pretty much from the ground up in the entirely different style, right after working on this one). So, if your main complaint is about the size and the amount of pointless exposition, you could as well start writing the alternative "no bullshit" version.

 

[Sceptic]

Also2, to make it even more clear, if I continue with my draft, it WILL (almost definitely) NOT shrink (and I probably won't be able to write another one pretty much from the ground up in the entirely different style, right after working on this one). So, if your main complaint is about the size and the amount of pointless exposition, you could as well start writing the alternative "no bullshit" version.

The problem isn't that it's bullshit (it's actually got a lot of interesting tidbits... up until where I stopped reading anyway), the problem is that you're trying to convince this guy who can't be bothered making money out of his own creation to read a long, long, LONG text. Look at the underlined bit and you'll see the problem. He's not going to read any of what you wrote - of that you can be certain. Not because it's bad or bullshit or whatever; but because he's going to look at the length and decide "fuck it". You're not making a detailed pitch to someone who has some interest in doing this but wants to be convinced it's worth his time/effort/investment; you're trying to convince someone who said "Not aware of any of the things you mentioned. I doubt there's enough interest to justify a release" it's worth his time and effort. You're not going to do this by taking so much of his time and effort to read your pitch in the first place.

tl;dr don't take it personally.

 

[tuluse]

Ouch.

That's the codex way.

Also, to make it clear, I don't have any problems with "stepping down" in case any person here really thinks he has a better understanding of what he is doing, and what the correct way to direct that conversation is. Also2, to make it even more clear, if I continue with my draft, it WILL (almost definitely) NOT shrink (and I probably won't be able to write another one pretty much from the ground up in the entirely different style, right after working on this one). So, if your main complaint is about the size and the amount of pointless exposition, you could as well start writing the alternative "no bullshit" version.

If you're trying to sell him on it, you want him to be interested and asking for more information.

Anyways, I actually came through and wrote a draft of a much shorter email to send. It could use some work, but I think for someone who only has the faintest idea what's going on, it would be a friendlier intro.

Spoiler

Greetings. I am the person who conversed with you via Twitter about the Planescape: Torment soundtrack.


I wanted to go into more depth about what I mentioned. I think there is a real market for your alternate soundtrack. Planescape: Torment has become a cult hit among video games with a dedicated following. There are a lot of people who would be interested in preserving and acquiring a copy of the original soundtrack intended for the game. Right now is a great time to move forward with this for two reasons. The first is that Kickstarter has emerged as a service that lets artists connect directly with their potential audience and raise funds to pay for their creation in advance, in particular video game projects have had great support. The second is that a sequel to Planescape: Torment was recently funded using Kickstarter to the tune of 4 million dollars.


To give you an idea of the impact Planescape: Torment has had on people, I have a few retrospective articles on the game. These are all written a decade or more after the game was released showing it's staying power. http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2007/09/25/retrospective-planescape-torment/, this one from Rock, paper, shotgun discusses how it might be the only video game with literary merit. Another from Eurogamer follows a similar line but focuses more on how different it is from all other games, http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/planescape-torment-retrospective. RPGFan, http://www.rpgfan.com/reviews/planescapetorment/, is a bit more technical in it's review but also touches on the literal quality and how the game feels different from other games. So you can see the game struck a chord with people who are compelled to share their experience 10 years after it has been out, which is unusual to say the least in video games.


While some people are deeply attached to Planescape: Torment, it's still a niche product. That's where kickstarter comes in. The basic idea of kickstarter is that you put a pitch a project, and people who are interested can contribute money to help you accomplish it. You set a goal for how much money it would take to complete and a time frame to get the money by, and people can pledge as much as they feel comfortable with. If you don't hit the goal, you don't get any of the money. So it protects everyone from a situation where they gave you some money, but you don't have enough to finish the job and from messy refund situations. Using Kickstarter to fund the mastering of the album would expose you to very little risk, with a chance at receiving a surprising amount of money. If you reach the goal you set, people can still contribute money until the time frame you set has ended. Plus, you would still be able to sell the album after the fact with the costs of it's production entire paid for.


The popularity of this service has exploded in recent years. Video game projects in particular have done well, with over 15 projects collecting 1 million or more dollars in the last 2 years. Planescape: Torment itself recently had a sequel funded using the service. As you can see, it raised over 4 million dollars, http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/torment-tides-of-numenera. The market for Torment related projects definitely exists. If you launched your own project in the next few months it would be striking while the proverbial iron is hot.


I don't want to oversell the idea. It takes effort to have a successful kickstarter drive. People expect a certain degree of personal touch. Also, I doubt you'll reach the same numbers as the video game projects have, people are willing to pay more for an entire game than just the music for a game. If you're interested I can explain more about how kickstarter works, what I've seen people's expectations are for them, and how I think you could have a successful one. I know I personally would love to have a copy of the soundtrack myself.


Sincerely,

 

[tuluse]

I just remembered this, but there was a pretty successful video game music kickstarter.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects...-level-3-game-composers-of-the-wor?ref=search

It got 280k.

 

[Sensuki]

As much as I enjoy Lustmord's music (Heresy is so good) I cannot see him going forward with anything of the sort, these one-man band underground dark ambient (and black metal) guys are reclusive by nature.

I would support the release of his version of the PS:T soundtrack, but I doubt he'll ever do it lol.

CMcC brofist for musical choice though, clear taste.

 

[Ninjerk]

I would support the release of his version of the PS:T soundtrack, but I doubt he'll ever do it lol.

CMcC brofist for musical choice though, clear taste.

I read it as he's politely telling OP to fuck off.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

I would support the release of his version of the PS:T soundtrack, but I doubt he'll ever do it lol.

CMcC brofist for musical choice though, clear taste.

I read it as he's politely telling OP to suck his dick and fuck off.

fxd

 

[iqzulk]

Anyways, I actually came through and wrote a draft of a much shorter email to send. It could use some work, but I think for someone who only has the faintest idea what's going on, it would be a friendlier intro.

It's pretty nice actually. I like how basically every sentence is there for a reason.
Well, actually, I don't want to nitpick, by there is one minor thing.
I don't know, I have an impression, that Brian prefers to discuss things in a pretty exact and specific manner. And I am not really sure if some wordings in your draft (like "real market", "exploded", "where... comes in", etc. - it really sounds like a typical salesman pitch in those moments) would be OK, or if they'll just make him disregard the whole message altogether as (hyperbolizing mode) some overly-enthusiastic fan fantasy or sales pitch with very little amount of useful info and very little relation to reality. I'm really not trying to nitpick, but I do get the impression that kind of stuff will probably rub him completely the wrong way. That also concerns "the proverbial irons" and "to the tunes".

Also another thing is that if you are going to write him, please, PLEASE don't do it on my behalf, don't say, that you are the guy, who conversed via twitter, etc. The twitter conversation is there, completely out in the open, anyone could stumble upon it and decide to add his two cents. It's nothing personal - but still, please, don't speak on my behalf, it's completely unnecessary, and I would really prefer if you don't do that.

 

[tuluse]

I didn't mean to give the impression that I would try to represent you like that. If I were you, I would take that personally. I actually intended it to be a draft you could use if you wanted to (and you're free to make any changes that you would like), since you already had started a conversation with him.

 

[Infinitron]

Tuluse's letter is good. Come on, stop biting your fingernails and send that shit out.

 

[Ninjerk]

Whatever you or I think he's saying, the worst that can happen is he can say no.

 

[Sensuki]

I read it as he's politely telling OP to fuck off.

Yep, pretty much lol.

 

[m_s0]

I concur with Septic but it wouldn't be the hardest thing to convince him into a Kickstarter with smart communication.

Maybe, maybe not. Some people don't want anything to do with Kickstarter and consider this begging for money, i.e. something which would potentially hurt their image in the long run. And I mean "image" not as in "I'm avantgarde", rather "I'm a guy who happens to be serious about his work, gets things done and is worth contacting"

I'd be down with the idea, but I wouldn't assume too much here.

I just remembered this, but there was a pretty successful video game music kickstarter.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects...-level-3-game-composers-of-the-wor?ref=search

It got 280k.

There's also this thing:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/499808045/from-the-composer-of-skyrim-soule-symphony-no-1

And, for anyone who isn't aware of this, here's a thread from Lustmord's official forum:
http://www.lustmord.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=259&hilit=planescape

I hope he just lost the original files for that trailer, and not for everything.

It's pretty nice actually. I like how basically every sentence is there for a reason.
Well, actually, I don't want to nitpick, by there is one minor thing.
I don't know, I have an impression, that Brian prefers to discuss things in a pretty exact and specific manner. And I am not really sure if some wordings in your draft (like "real market", "exploded", "where... comes in", etc. - it really sounds like a typical salesman pitch in those moments) would be OK, or if they'll just make him disregard the whole message altogether as (hyperbolizing mode) some overly-enthusiastic fan fantasy or sales pitch with very little amount of useful info and very little relation to reality. I'm really not trying to nitpick, but I do get the impression that kind of stuff will probably rub him completely the wrong way. That also concerns "the proverbial irons" and "to the tunes".

This is an excellent point.

Whatever you or I think he's saying, the worst that can happen is he can say no.

The worst thing that could happen is we could fuck up our only chance. We've easily got a couple of days, let's take our time and polish this a bit.

 

[ghostdog]

Informing Brian Fargo about this wouldn't be a bad idea either. Since Inexile has Torment license, they might even be willing to use some of these songs in TToN. Maybe resident twiteress Crooked Bee could let him know.