Proving Calis right (and responding to DU)...

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I think you missed the point. The forums mentioned have nothing to do with role-playing games or role-playing business. It's just the usual extra forums most game sites have for people to talk about other things besides rpgs. It's common to have more than one forum for this as you can see in the links to the sites above.

Do you mean, like having 2 Retardo Lands? 1 unlocked for random LULZ and 1 locked for the best bullshit posted at GD to be "immortalized"? And Politics/Religion Board? Really? Will it contribute to Codex more than GD? Because this image below represents quite well what I predict its content will be:

Arts? Writing? Doesn't Roleplaying games have enough content on that?

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Even lawyers are getting on high moral grounds to stand for what is best for Codex. I have only one message for all this:

Enough moralists and E-dramas.

And this is for DU:

Yah, seriously yall.

What is all this nonsense and where does it come from? There's some problem that's so fucking pervasive that everyone seems to see it but me. Lulz, lulz, I know, must mean I'm part of it! LULZ!

There wasn't anything wrong with this forum until all this shit hit the fan. Not for me anyways. RPG Discussion is there, duh, and you can go there and talk about RPGs. But, you know, sometimes you just want to BS with personalities you like on an internet forum. For some reason the serious business faggots are getting bent over that. Fuck you. And yes, I know, you're thinking the same trite bullshit. It isn't overrunning the site, it's not detracting from RPG discussion, lay off it.

"Vocal minority" my ass. This is a forum not a representative democracy and you have as much power as anyone to determine the direction any discussion here takes. Appealing to the authorities to haul away your neighbors because you don't like sharing an index with them is just pure fail.

No one's actively hijacking RPG discussion threads or stopping you from talking about RPGs -- and if they do, more power to you. But they aren't, so god damn why are you screwing up a good thing?

It works in the other sites. I don't see why it would not work here.

Very funny, but irrelevant.

Some people like to discuss arts and writing outside video games and these are somewhat related. Splitting general discussion into sub-forums is nothing new and it may help the forums.

In fact one thing i immediately noticed as odd here is why you only have one forum for general discussion when most other game sites have it split by themes.

I think that focusing exclusively on RPG's would be a mistake, people have other interests as well, and repeating the same post about choices and consequences for the nth time can get pretty damn boring. As far as I can tell, the controversy has never been about limiting serious discussion to RPG's, but rather, preventing serious discussions of all sorts (whether RPG related, political, etc.) from degenerating into lulz.

Currently, I don't see a lot of lulz going on in the RPG discussion forum, so I guess having seperate forums for serious debates and art/music/literature/movies is a good idea, as discussions on these topics will also be less lulzy. There could also be different rules for such forums - while a remark such as the one made by Spacemoose might be admitted in general discussion threads, in the serious forum, it could be against the rules. In order to have a more vibrant and intellectual community, more serious debates and discussions should be supported.

Yeah, no horse combat for poor SP while riding Todd.

I doubt anyone here will pay much attention to thoughts of yet another lurker and irregular, but as someone who has over the years come to depend on the Codex for interesting CRPG content and discussions, I feel obliged to comment on recent developments. As the occasionally disparaging tone of my post is bound to offend someone (likely the individuals disparaged), I'd like to state that I have a great deal of respect for nearly all people mentioned in my post, though after what transpired my respect for some of them has understandably decreased. I'd also like to note that as I'm not privy to what occurs in admin forum and private correspondence, my perception of certain elements of this situation may be skewed or plain erroneous due to incomplete information.

First of all, I'll make an effort to describe what the situation appears like to an outside observer like me. Bluntly put, it appears like a coup on part of DarkUnderlord and with reluctant participation of other admins against VD, motivated by DU's personal dislike of the latter, with spacemoose's ban, Naked_Lunch fiasco and VD's vague mentions of hiatus used as feeble pretext.

Why this impression? For starters, the fact that VD was removed from power while still in discussion on what should be done in reaction to the recent "disturbance" indicate that the putschists (for lack of a better word) were never really interested in persuading VD to mellow on the issue of forum-wide crackdown, but rather intended to overthrow him regardless of his position. The swift, furtive manner in which the overthrow was done shows that the putschists had no pretenses of their coup's legitimacy. This is further confirmed in the despicable character assassination campaign launched by DU hours (if not minutes!) after the coup. The tone of DU's posts reflects a personal animosity toward VD, clearly resulting from some unresolved issue or other, while the coup pretext outlined in the posts is weak at best. Even if we go by the assumption that VD's banning of spacemoose was an error of judgement on his part, simple fact is that VD was in the process of working things out with spacemoose and fixing that error. Subsequent mayhem inflicted by Naked_Lunch is no fault of VD's - rather, it is the fault of Naked_Lunch first and whoever entrusted someone as obviously untrustworthy as him with admin access second. DU also cites that VD has mishandled several such situations months prior, thus attempting to present the spacemoose incident as last straw rather than the sole, weak reason for VD's removal; yet according to VD, neither he nor any other admin ever made a serious attempt to discuss these mistakes with him, let alone warn him that he might be stripped of his power because of them. DU furthermore claims that VD has been unwilling to compromise on his plans for a crackdown, but as I understand it, the matter was still being discussed when the coup happened. Finally, we are left with the assertion that VD was planning to resign anyway - I don't think it's necessary to explain how pathetically weak a justification that is.

I truly want to believe that no sinister byzantine plot occured and my impression is merely a consequence of DU and Calis handling this delicate situation with finesse and tact of drunken lumberjacks, but surely everyone can understand that available information indicates otherwise.

However, it's ultimately irrelevant if VD's removal resulted from an unfortunate set of circumstances or if Darth Underlord and his apprentice Calis Skywalker executed Order 66. Whichever scenario is true, I'm certain of one thing - loss of VD will be a disaster for the Codex. Ever since Saint faded into obscurity, VD has been practically the sole contributor of news and content. More importantly, his efforts have afforded the Codex an unprecedented amount of recognition. His reviews of Gothic 3 and Oblivion are often cited in the gaming community as the most informative and analytical on the Internet. His prolific contacts with both mainstream and indie developers have spawned many exclusive (not to mention damn interesting) interviews. The biting tone of his newsposts is what gives the Codex frontpage its notorious edge. Last but not the least, some of the publicity surrounding AoD has undoubtedly rubbed off on the Codex.

With all that in mind, the following quote comes to mind: "I am ignorant, sir, of your motives or provocations; I only know that you have acted like a man who has cut off his right hand with his left." (Sidonious Apollinaris addressing emperor Valentinian III regarding the latter's murder of his best general.) Seriously, how is VD anything but indispensible for the Codex? Who will replace him? Saint and Role-Player, who have left and will probably never return? DarkUnderlord, who has no qualms about publicly belittling and disparaging him despite not having a fraction of his dedication? Calis, who is, by his own admission, a programmer rather than a journalist/writer? Shagnak and baby arm, of whom newer people probably don't even know that they are Codex admins? The newly enlisted newsposters, who have neither VD's contacts nor his experience and are likely to get bored a week from now? What will the Codex look like in a couple of months? Will all newsposts, interviews and reviews be as dry and trite as those on RPGWatch and RPGVault? Will there even *be* newsposts, interviews and reviews? Or will there only be a forum, devoid of anything worthwhile to discuss and filled with juvenile retards wallowing in their precious "LULZ" without the evil Nazi VD to disturb them? Is the moronic idea of requiring a full staff consensus before a decision as basic as banning a troublesome user can be enacted indicative of your plan for the post-VD Codex? Do you actually *have* anything resembling a plan, or is this a matter of your egos being so inflated that it doesn't matter if you destroy the Codex in the process of indulging them? I'm talking to you, admins!

Finally, to everyone stupid enough to suggest that VD should return as an editor without admin powers: 1. The forums are as integral part of the Codex as news and other content. Forum discussions where content is analysed and dissected over twenty pages by the likes of Section8, David Gaider, Saint Proverbius and Volourn (...) have always been the staple of the Codex and lack of ability to administer the forums would at the very least be a handicap for VD, especially since other admins seem to drop by about twice a year. 2. Any man willing to return after being unceremoniously deposed and under humiliating terms specified by the very people who threw him out and then devoted a dozen or two pages of forum posts to flinging mud at him would have to be completely devoid of self-respect. I would sooner kill myself than acquiesce to such undignified treatment, and I doubt VD's sentiments are considerably different.

There you have it. An average assessment/appeal to common sense by an average Codex viewer, submitted for your ignoral.

Sincerely, as always,
Ratty

JC, Greg, stop it.

But VD -forced- Spacemoose to post NSFW. Forcing people to do things is fascism.

Is that an offer?

Just some clarification.

He could have still "administered the forums". Full moderation and full site admin. It was really all about pushing the big red ban button and other forum admin stuff (which is distinct from/above forum moderation powers) which would have required some sort of majority.

You obviously have no idea how much moderation someone like, say, baby arm does.
I'm a bad example (esp. since I've been lax in attendance for about 2 months due to work commitments), but even I've retardoed a few threads in the last couple of weeks. And involved fully in moderation arguments during the "TNP Nazi-spam and VD intending to ban Naked Ninja for very little" era.

Actually, I'm not sure why I'm trying to clarify anything because it usually matters for naught grumble grumble.

Carry on.

I believe you, Shagnak.

u cannot b sirius

sirius is dead OMG spoiler

I helped to define an "era"? *sniff, so proud*

Look, yes, he was near to banning me at that point. Thanks to people who argued against that banning. I don't hold it against him though. In the grand scheme of things, it was nothing and holding onto it would be petty. We've all moved past it and everything is rainbows and kittens and hugs.

And to that end, in my humble opinion, you guys need to let this go. All of you, VD, included. It isn't worth it. This is doing nothing but damaging the Codex. DU is making public his issues with VD, it's making him look like a villain to some people. In defending VD, admins who probably do a good deal of work behind the scenes are being slated by some members and feeling the need to defend their contributions publically. Normal members who can't see the hidden workings are picking sides based on limited information, and making grandiose and melodramatic statements about military coups. VD has had his authoritah ripped from him, which probably stings a bit after all his contributions, and so his only recourse apart from being quietly swept out is to do this publically.

It's just a mess as everyone takes pot shots at each other. We're supposed to be the badasses of RPG review sites, not catty schoolgirls. Really, each side of the argument seems to be losing far more than they are gaining. It's all so pointless.

VD, the main thing the others seem to want is for a majority vote to be required before banning. Is that really that big an issue? Worth sacrificing all the work you put in? You wanted to make a difference in the RPG genre, is bowing out now going to achieve that? Since you have indicated you would be willing to discuss it, I'm assuming your answer is no.

Other admins. You disagree with his actions. Fine. But kindova slap in the face how quickly VD was stripped of rank. Maybe just apologise to the guy for jumping the gun? Sometimes the actions which seem right at the time aren't. No biggy, everyones an adult, lets just call it "a mistake in hindsight" and move on. Calis already seems to have said that, so cool.

DU, you say you wouldn't mind VD back, dispite not seeing eye to eye, you just want to sort out the banning issue. Cool. But the little jabs and jibes are just fanning the flames, sure you're probably just being funny but until people calm down maybe just chill a bit with that? As a token offering, to encourage everyone to bloody well relax? Is it worth losing VDs contribution? Sure the Codex will survive without him, but why throw away a valuable resource for a cheap laugh? Again, losing more than gaining.

Just to clarify. NN made some statements, but repeatedly refused to explain and support his position with arguments. I used a ban threat to force him to do so, without ever having intentions of banning him. In fact, when I learned that he's an indie developer, I immediately offered him the forums and encouraged him to present his game to the Codex.

Yep. And I'm grateful for it. Despite our semi-heated disagreement at the time, VD showed no hard feelings, he's been very helpful and friendly. He's not some unreasonable jackbooted Nazi who will stomp on anyone who looks at him funny.

And I'm similarly sure that, if we all just chill this can be sorted out and we can all go back to jeering at Todd Howard. And, you know, promoting and discussing RPGs instead of forum policy.

Geez, how terrible. Having stuff like Roqua vs. Bryce on the one hand and VD on the other is what made the complete Codex experience. I guess it's going to be 4chan on one hand and RPG Watch on the other now.

You miss all the commotion and wonder why news are suddendly posted by people other than VD, and you only discover by mere coincidence what is going on. That is what happens.