Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Development Info Project Eternity Kickstarter Update #41: Dwarves and Doors (and a complete lack of proofreading)

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,656
"Picking locks is not obselte in games where bashing is also allowed."

Yes it is. Why put points in a skill when you can have your heavy hitter along with you to pry open everything? Who cares if a few insignificant trinkets get trashed? Or if a couple of trash mobs show up to fall on your swords?
 

Captain Shrek

Guest
"Picking locks is not obselte in games where bashing is also allowed."

Yes it is. Why put points in a skill when you can have your heavy hitter along with you to pry open everything? Who cares if a few insignificant trinkets get trashed? Or if a couple of trash mobs show up to fall on your swords?

Braindead?

It has been suggested at least twenty times WHY.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,656
Twenty different ways of saying "because I'm LARPing."
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Messages
24,924
"Yes it is. Why put points in a skill when you can have your heavy hitter along with you to pry open everything? Who cares if a few insignificant trinkets get trashed? Or if a couple of trash mobs show up to fall on your swords?"

You are an idiot. Isn't one of the things the Codex begs for is multiple ways to do things and you want to stop that? Utter bullshit.

I've playd games that had both ways to open shit and it didnt stop me from using lockpicking. You fucknut. Why are you such an ignorant loser who doesn't know anything about RPGs?
 
Unwanted

Kalin

Unwanted
Dumbfuck Zionist Agent
Joined
Sep 29, 2010
Messages
1,868,264
Location
Al Scandiya
Besides, you might not have a heavy hitter in the party, all items save the story-critical ones could potentially get destroyed by bashing and it needn't be trash mobs per se that would show up but rather story-relevant characters, quest givers and such, basically anyone who would react negatively to you trashing their stuff, or indeed, guards who when you fight them might lower your reputation in the city/area in question. For normal players those things would make lockpicking anything but obsolete.
 

Captain Shrek

Guest
Twenty different ways of saying "because I'm LARPing."
It has NOTHING whatsoever to do with LARP.

All it takes is missions where making noise is a bad idea. I can see plenty of opportunities where a party of 6 may not want to fight the entire tribe/army/city guards etc which would deplete resources. oh wait! Per encounter regen and Out of combat regen! Riiight.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,656
"You are an idiot. Isn't one of the things the Codex begs for is multiple ways to do things and you want to stop that? Utter bullshit."

I support multiple ways of doing things as long as one way isn't diminished by others. A few chests and doors could have keys and that would be fine. Being able to ignore a skill with an attribute check or a spell? Not fine.

"I've playd games that had both ways to open shit and it didnt stop me from using lockpicking."

Well you are a strange one. Plus, as I recall, the IE games and the Fallouts would give you xp for opening things using the skill but none if you bashed (or used knock in BG's case). P:E doesn't have any of this xp-for-performing-every-activity nonsense, so that particular incentive is no longer there.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,656
All it takes is missions where making noise is a bad idea. I can see plenty of opportunities where a party of 6 may not want to fight the entire tribe/army/city guards etc which would deplete resources.
Someone playing a role playing game without murdering everyone who gets in their way? News to me.

oh wait! Per encounter regen and Out of combat regen! Riiight.
:retarded:
 

Jim Cojones

Prophet
Joined
Nov 2, 2008
Messages
2,101
Location
Przenajswietsza Rzeczpospolita
"You are an idiot. Isn't one of the things the Codex begs for is multiple ways to do things and you want to stop that? Utter bullshit."

I support multiple ways of doing things as long as one way isn't diminished by others. A few chests and doors could have keys and that would be fine. Being able to ignore a skill with an attribute check or a spell? Not fine.

"I've playd games that had both ways to open shit and it didnt stop me from using lockpicking."

Well you are a strange one. Plus, as I recall, the IE games and the Fallouts would give you xp for opening things using the skill but none if you bashed (or used knock in BG's case). P:E doesn't have any of this xp-for-performing-every-activity nonsense, so that particular incentive is no longer there.
Yeah, these 25 exp per door is one of the reasons why lockpick is considered one of the most useful skills to have in Fallout. O_O How about Wizardries where there is no experience for lockpicking yet pretty much every party will rely on having at least one character good at opening locks instead of trying to force every lock with high strength characters?
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,656
Yeah, these 25 exp per door is one of the reasons why lockpick is considered one of the most useful skills to have in Fallout. O_O
Yup. Without the xp bribery there'd be no incentive to put any points into lockpick. Just equip a crowbar and bash away or blow it up. Exceptions being the rare electronic lock, which I think can only be affected by lockpick, I don't quite remember.

How about Wizardries where there is no experience for lockpicking yet pretty much every party will rely on having at least one character good at opening locks instead of trying to force every lock with high strength characters?
Didn't play any of 'em long enough to see how this worked.
 

Angthoron

Arcane
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
13,056
A locked door is the proverbial red rag to the bull that the player is in any given game. Something's hidden behind that door - some extra content, or a little cash, or a secret, or a cool item they'd want to have for their character/party. Or maybe it's just a teapot they'll steal anyway, and then sell to some vendor - it doesn't matter. If it's locked, it has to be unlocked, and there are very few players that will just leave that door fucking be. It can even COST them XP to open it, but damn it, they will do it. Sadly, these days the devs provide either just one way to tackle the situation, or they make the other option so lackluster while the "obvious" solution is so easy that the player will always go for the obvious path anyway, thus giving the "telemetry"-centric devs to later complain about uselessness of adding multiple solutions and just stop bothering.

So how about making different paths more interesting for the player while limiting the availability/usefulness/universailty of lockpicks? If a game has alignment trackers, then a Good character's alignment would slide towards Neutral gradually, or Lawful towards Chaotic. Of course, this is active punishment for choosing just one path, but if the designers made multiple paths available, then the player has to be actively guided to look for different approaches, rather than locked one way or another.

Have a character sweet-talk his way into that storage. Fool the guard into checking what's inside and sneak in once he's opened the door and stepped in. Get him drunk. Seduce him for a snog, then steal his key and his wallet. Knock him out. Find the reserve key from "totally inconspicious" medicine cabinet in the office (and loot the meds while no-one's looking). Bluff your way in by demanding the key and succeed the stat check. Kill the guard and loot his corpse.

I mean sure, if it's a choice between sticking it in and fumbling for a couple of seconds for AWESOME, or trudging around looking for that alternative way in for half an hour, I pretty much know what I'm going to do. But if it's actually rewarding/supplementing a player's playstyle, whatever it might be, then why the hell not? The only constraints are time and money, but if these are not in the way too much, it adds a lot of value to have all these options. And yeah, one way of getting towards fixing the issue is simply to not reward the most obvious solution, or to track the way the player works, and at some point, have his solutions "peak" and stop giving maximum benefit for his play style, or have them become more expensive/complicated as the game progresses.

However, one thing that's actually important in multiple-option games to begin with is to actually make the player aware that these options even exist. Yeah, it may seem obvious, talk to the guard in a certain way and get what you want! Of course! However, the way the industry's been working lately, even the most open-world, big-budget titles are really locked into some very obvious pathways, so a player for a more "budget" title will have no idea what to expect at all. "Really?", they'll wonder, "They added a way to lockpick, lie, kill, seduce AND bluff into this 20-dollar title? Holy shit! And it doesn't even have VA! What is this foul magic?"

But yeah, all of the above applies to projects that have enough time and money to implement it. This isn't an approach for a Slam Dunk or EA Rush.
 

Angthoron

Arcane
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
13,056
Great, I thought I had enough of doors at Obsidian forums, and now look at this.
Doors are fascinating, you know? Have you ever considered that it could be that we all live in a cave, and sometimes we catch a glimpse of the real world, not just the reflections cast by the perfect objects outside? That door you see is probably just a shabby representation of the perfect Door - but sadly, you can't reach out and touch the real thing because it's just beyond your reach and sight. You merely live in the shadow of the Perfect Door.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,955
Location
Russia
Doors are fascinating, you know? Have you ever considered that it could be that we all live in a cave, and sometimes we catch a glimpse of the real world, not just the reflections cast by the perfect objects outside? That door you see is probably just a shabby representation of the perfect Door - but sadly, you can't reach out and touch the real thing because it's just beyond your reach and sight. You merely live in the shadow of the Perfect Door.
That... was amazing.
(Shadenuat gains +1 Wisdom)
 

hiver

Guest
- you guys dont know the half of it.


Walking through a doorway triggers memory loss, and there's nothing you can do about it


f2bMXqY.jpg



Remember the last time you walked into a room and forgot what you were there for? Absurd lack of parallelism aside, it's something we all experience, and apparently it isn't just some random occurrence.
A team of researchers in the state of Indiana say there's a bona fide, scientific reason for it.
It's a fairly common feeling to walk into a room and then look around, no clue why you're there, but it isn't common to walk across a room and forget why you did so. Even if it's the same distance.

Well, fear not: you're not crazy. (yes you are)

Researchers at the University of Notre Dame recently conducted a study that showed doorways serve as "event-boundaries," which help the brain organize memories.
The team found that our minds actually separate activity from room to room, which is why walking through a door can lead to forgetting while walking the same distance across the room has no effect.
Doorways have long been used as a symbolic boundary in films and books, but it turns out our brains have been creating this connection for a long time.

The reasons why remain unclear.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom