Prisonscape - a prison RPG

[Lhynn]

Ah, that actually sounds a lot better. Will there be movement in battle?

And changing subject and building on gear.
Will there be a mechanic to build stashes and store your shit, or to find other inmates stashes?

We're planning on making hiding places where the player can store "hot" items. These locations will be fixed, but some of them are better than others, and you have to use strength/agility/intelligence to find them and to actually use them. I haven't thought about finding other inmate's stash before, but that's actually a really good idea.

Yeah, exploration is aways good. Wouldnt mind getting collectibles in the form of posters and old playboys either.

Asking about the movement in combat because i cant quite picture it in my mind.
Dont know if youll have AP to move in turn based, or it will be a FFVII esque where its seemingly a turn based/real time hybrid but you and your enemy stay on the same place, or it will have movement and a contextual menu, will you be able to target? or fights will be 1 on 1. If not how will it deal with multiple opponents without the fight becoming a clusterfuck of punches and kicks were numbers count more than strategic thinking (not that its a bad thing).
These are the things most of us can help you with, gameplay, we can tell you what is fun and what is shit, so if you want to go ahead and give us a detailed breakdown of it, or even better, a vid we can watch. QTEs are not a bad idea, especially its a main mechanic in combat, because it helps a lot with immersion, its the other kind of QTEs ive got a problem with, the press X not to die ones.

 

[palmito]

I hope you have already beaten this shit:
http://download.cnet.com/Hard-Time/3000-2097_4-10629141.html

 

[PekkaK]

Yeah, exploration is aways good. Wouldnt mind getting collectibles in the form of posters and old playboys either.

Asking about the movement in combat because i cant quite picture it in my mind.
Dont know if youll have AP to move in turn based, or it will be a FFVII esque where its seemingly a turn based/real time hybrid but you and your enemy stay on the same place, or it will have movement and a contextual menu, will you be able to target? or fights will be 1 on 1. If not how will it deal with multiple opponents without the fight becoming a clusterfuck of punches and kicks were numbers count more than strategic thinking (not that its a bad thing).
These are the things most of us can help you with, gameplay, we can tell you what is fun and what is shit, so if you want to go ahead and give us a detailed breakdown of it, or even better, a vid we can watch. QTEs are not a bad idea, especially its a main mechanic in combat, because it helps a lot with immersion, its the other kind of QTEs ive got a problem with, the press X not to die ones.

Movement and positioning is still an open issue in combat. Our implementation method with features in the game is that we do them layer by layer - at first we did very basic combat where you can only use one attack, then we added some more powerful attacks, then added attacks that affect the enemies stats, and so on. We add new features layer by layer, so that we can test the old layer while we implement the new one. This also allows us to see how well the new feature fits the old system fairly quickly. Right now fights are 1 vs 1, but there has been talks about adding more combatants so that you could fight in the front/back row, give commands to your henchmen, etc. Also adding the element of surprise would be very nice in prison-based game where shankings are common. But the thing is, I don't want to go all Peter Molyneux on promising all sorts of features and then not implementing them, so I won't give a 100% answer on anything. In addition to deadlines it also depends on how well these added features work in the actual game.

I will make a video as soon as we have a proper and working skill/item system. Right now the combat is pretty boring to watch, because it's pretty much like CT/FF fights in the beginning of these games.

 

[Lhynn]

My advice for simplicity and fun? just go with the final fantasy tactics aproach to combat, real time combat has to look pretty and interesting, turn based combat can look like shit and it will still be something engaging (if done well).
With a grid based combat and a contextual menu (based on your fighting skill, position and stats), fights are more time consuming and victories feel more rewarding.
You could even add a bit of random luck and depth to the mix by making move options in the form of a card deck, were attacks will come up and be usable depending on the situation, being stronger means more powerful attacks, being faster means more complex attacks and being smarter means a bigger hand.

 

[PekkaK]

My advice for simplicity and fun? just go with the final fantasy tactics aproach to combat, real time combat has to look pretty and interesting, turn based combat can look like shit and it will still be something engaging (if done well).
With a grid based combat and a contextual menu (based on your fighting skill, position and stats), fights are more time consuming and victories feel more rewarding.
You could even add a bit of random luck and depth to the mix by making move options in the form of a card deck, were attacks will come up and be usable depending on the situation, being stronger means more powerful attacks, being faster means more complex attacks and being smarter means a bigger hand.

We had a meeting today where we talked about the battle system and also about the pros and cons of real time / turn based combat. If we decide to take the turn-based way, we will probably add a grid so that tactics can play bigger role in fights and especially in combat where the player is against several opponents. We thought about making n different combat grids with different tactical aspects to them - some would have narrow spaces where the player can stay in guard so that all enemies cannot surround and attack at once. We also talked about influence and intelligence and how they could affect the player henchmen on the field: if the player is intelligent and has good reputation with the henchmen, he has more control over their doings, for example they can select their fighting style, if they should defend the player and whom they should attack. I really like the card deck idea! I think that's something that we should consider.

About the real-time combat, I really don't have any ideas or say about it since this is the first time I've even considered it for Prisonscape. Have you people enjoyed some specific real-time combat systems?

 

[Gakkone]

Turn-based with grid would be optimal. Forget about real-time, it only brings trouble.

 

[JudasIscariot]

My advice for simplicity and fun? just go with the final fantasy tactics aproach to combat, real time combat has to look pretty and interesting, turn based combat can look like shit and it will still be something engaging (if done well).
With a grid based combat and a contextual menu (based on your fighting skill, position and stats), fights are more time consuming and victories feel more rewarding.
You could even add a bit of random luck and depth to the mix by making move options in the form of a card deck, were attacks will come up and be usable depending on the situation, being stronger means more powerful attacks, being faster means more complex attacks and being smarter means a bigger hand.

We had a meeting today where we talked about the battle system and also about the pros and cons of real time / turn based combat. If we decide to take the turn-based way, we will probably add a grid so that tactics can play bigger role in fights and especially in combat where the player is against several opponents. We thought about making n different combat grids with different tactical aspects to them - some would have narrow spaces where the player can stay in guard so that all enemies cannot surround and attack at once. We also talked about influence and intelligence and how they could affect the player henchmen on the field: if the player is intelligent and has good reputation with the henchmen, he has more control over their doings, for example they can select their fighting style, if they should defend the player and whom they should attack. I really like the card deck idea! I think that's something that we should consider.

About the real-time combat, I really don't have any ideas or say about it since this is the first time I've even considered it for Prisonscape. Have you people enjoyed some specific real-time combat systems?

I have never enjoyed real-time combat in an RPG. If I wanted to play a rapid fire clickfest, I would play an RTS.

 

[Lhynn]

Well... its true, its harder to pull off, and in the overwhelming majority of cases it is better to go with turn based over real time when you cant rely on pretty graphics. But IF you can make it smooth and responsive, guess the one used on seiken densetsu 3?
Id still rather see a TB game tho.

 

[PekkaK]

Turn-based with grid would be optimal. Forget about real-time, it only brings trouble.

I have never enjoyed real-time combat in an RPG. If I wanted to play a rapid fire clickfest, I would play an RTS.

Well... its true, its harder to pull off, and in the overwhelming majority of cases it is better to go with turn based over real time when you cant rely on pretty graphics. But IF you can make it smooth and responsive, guess the one used on seiken densetsu 3?
Id still rather see a TB game tho.

Noted. We'll probably go with the turn-based combat. Already got some new ideas for it, and I think that we'll also consider implementing the card system that Lhynn suggested. Book of dirty tricks

 

[TripJack]

java icon in top left corner game confirmed shit

 

[Lhynn]

java icon in top left corner game confirmed shit

Please, kindly go Fuck yourself

 

[TripJack]

barely a week on the codex and you're already telling people to go fuck themselves bro i like your style

 

[PekkaK]

java icon in top left corner game confirmed shit

What's with the hate towards Java as a development platform? I'm not a coder so I really have no clue why it is so hated but I'm curious.. How does the platform show in the end product?

Here is an old technology blog post by Tuomas about the platform and why we chose Java:

http://www.prisonscape.com/?p=70

 

[JudasIscariot]

His smooth talking and slight-of-hand made him a prison escape expert – a very valuable person to know.

That should read "sleight of hand" in Mancini's description

As far as Java goes, I don't hate it. Only thing I care about is that the final game runs well without any major bugs and is actually fun :D

 

[OSK]

What's with the hate towards Java as a development platform?

If I had to take a stab in the dark, I'd say because it's viewed as "baby's first programming language" and is associated with buggy, unoptimized and unfinished games by amateurs. People also probably have bad memories of Java applets.

In reality, there's nothing wrong with choosing Java for your game.

 

[TripJack]

What's with the hate towards Java as a development platform?

If I had to take a stab in the dark, I'd say because it's viewed as "baby's first programming language" and is associated with buggy, unoptimized and unfinished games by amateurs

definitely the latter for me, i can't think of a single quality game that was written in java

 

[Lhynn]

What's with the hate towards Java as a development platform?

If I had to take a stab in the dark, I'd say because it's viewed as "baby's first programming language" and is associated with buggy, unoptimized and unfinished games by amateurs

definitely the latter for me, i can't think of a single quality game that was written in java

I cant think of a single quality game that was written in the IW engine
And its a solid, pretty looking engine.
And its good to feel welcome to the codex, thanks Jack

 

[PekkaK]

I wrote a blog post about the battle mechanics, there's a lot of stuff we've been discussing here. It can be found here:

http://www.indiedb.com/games/prison...hting-man-aka-the-fighting-mechanics-reprised

Special thanks to Lhynn for quality ideas and feedback!

 

[Andyman Messiah]

WELCOME TO OZ PRISONSCAPE. IT'S A PLAY ON WORDS. LIKE PRISON AND ESCAPE. PRISONSCAPE! ANYWAY LET ME SHOW YOU AROUND. WE'RE PASSING THE ARYAN BROTHERHOOD. DON'T FIX WHAT ISN'T BROKEN ETC. HAW HAW HAW. AND THERE'S THE ARYAN BROTHERHOOD'S SWORN ENEMIES, THE BLACK GUERRILLA FAMILY.
wait the "black guerrilla family"?
YES THE BLACK GUERRILLA FAMILY! MOVING ON WE HA--
"the black guerrilla family"
DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM?
ye
MOVING ON WE HAVE THE LA NUESTRA FAMILIA.
okay
THEY'RE THE ITALIANS
okay that's kinda good not great but--
COME AGAIN?
"black guerrilla family" jesus christ...
SHUT UP AND KEEP WALKING. WE'RE ALMOST OVER IN THE MEXICAN MAFIA TURF. WATCH THE BUMP.
the "mexican mafia"? really?
YES REALLY.
...
...
the black guerrilla family, really? it sounds like "the black gorilla family" for god's sake
IT'S RACIST BAIT, TO BAIT RACISTS
okay... what do you call the guards?
THE GUARDS.
yeah, the guards.
THE GUARDS.
...
...
oooooooohh! you just call them "the guards"! i gotcha.
FANTASTIC.
so where's the nobodies?
THEY GO BY "THE NEUTRAL INMATES"!
alright fuck this shit.
WAIT YOU HAVEN'T EVEN SEEN THE LIFERS.
oh? what do they call themselves?
THE DEATHROW PRISONERS.
i feel sick
YOU SHOULD. YOU'RE IN PRISON! MUAHAHAHAHA!!

edit: Also consider me on the list of people that dislike Java. If this turns out to be good or even acceptable it'll be the first damn thing to come out of that shit and not suck ass.

 

[Agesilaus]

They didn't invent the name Black Guerrilla Family, or Mexican Mafia for that matter, etc...

 

[Lhynn]

WELCOME TO OZ PRISONSCAPE. IT'S A PLAY ON WORDS. LIKE PRISON AND ESCAPE. PRISONSCAPE! ANYWAY LET ME SHOW YOU AROUND. WE'RE PASSING THE ARYAN BROTHERHOOD. DON'T FIX WHAT ISN'T BROKEN ETC. HAW HAW HAW. AND THERE'S THE ARYAN BROTHERHOOD'S SWORN ENEMIES, THE BLACK GUERRILLA FAMILY.
wait the "black guerrilla family"?
YES THE BLACK GUERRILLA FAMILY! MOVING ON WE HA--
"the black guerrilla family"
DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM?
ye
MOVING ON WE HAVE THE LA NUESTRA FAMILIA.
okay
THEY'RE THE ITALIANS
okay that's kinda good not great but--
COME AGAIN?
"black guerrilla family" jesus christ...
SHUT UP AND KEEP WALKING. WE'RE ALMOST OVER IN THE MEXICAN MAFIA TURF. WATCH THE BUMP.
the "mexican mafia"? really?
YES REALLY.
...
...
the black guerrilla family, really? it sounds like "the black gorilla family" for god's sake
IT'S RACIST BAIT, TO BAIT RACISTS
okay... what do you call the guards?
THE GUARDS.
yeah, the guards.
THE GUARDS.
...
...
oooooooohh! you just call them "the guards"! i gotcha.
FANTASTIC.
so where's the nobodies?
THEY GO BY "THE NEUTRAL INMATES"!
alright fuck this shit.
WAIT YOU HAVEN'T EVEN SEEN THE LIFERS.
oh? what do they call themselves?
THE DEATHROW PRISONERS.
i feel sick
YOU SHOULD. YOU'RE IN PRISON! MUAHAHAHAHA!!

edit: Also consider me on the list of people that dislike Java. If this turns out to be good or even acceptable it'll be the first damn thing to come out of that shit and not suck ass.

They are all actual prison gang names.

 

[palmito]

some people like to look bad
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Guerrilla_Family
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Guerrilla_Family
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuestra_Familia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_Brotherhood
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Mafia
http://listverse.com/2010/12/11/top-10-us-prison-gangs/

 

[Andyman Messiah]

I know they're all a real thing but fuck can I say? The names are ridiculous.

Spoiler

Especially the "Neutral inmates". "Boy, you wanna watch yourself around here. The neutral inmates are some hardcore, stone cold muthafuckas."

Also drop the ranks for intimidation, fighting and pickpocketing. I know you assholes probably wanted to fill out the screen with skills real fucking bad but to me it just looks lazy as shit.

 

[Lhynn]

I know they're all a real thing but fuck can I say? The names are ridiculous.

Spoiler

Especially the "Neutral inmates". "Boy, you wanna watch yourself around here. The neutral inmates are some hardcore, stone cold muthafuckas."

Also drop the ranks for intimidation, fighting and pickpocketing. I know you assholes probably wanted to fill out the screen with skills real fucking bad but to me it just looks lazy as shit.

+1 theres no need to show all the ranks.

Prison, being a very social place should probably have some sort of charisma based stat

I would also change or add the following:
Thievery (governs pickpocketing, sneak, and even gambling really)
Insight (observation, ability to find hidden stuff, that includes loot at the end of the combat, etc)
Technique (improves on fighting, dodging and something else)
Eloquence (Improves speech, leadership, your cheap porn writing skills and lying)

As for intimidating folks, that thing should be based on stats and skills, for example strengh, technique, eloquence, faction relationship all go to a pool and determine your "Badass" rank.

Trying to simplify it while keeping it as indepth as possible at the same time.

 

[Excidium]

java icon in top left corner game confirmed shit

What's with the hate towards Java as a development platform?

Newbie programmers trying to look edgy and cool + people who don't know shit + bandwagoning

It's a 2D RPG FFS. It's not like the choice of language matters. I believe there's plenty of java opengl support for 2D games.

Some programmers are prejudiced against java because all memory management is handled for you by the JVM so a lot of people who are taught programming with java don't learn some p. important stuff. SPECIALLY self-taught programmer like many indie game devs tend to be. "Oh I'll go with java because then I'll never need to learn pesky things like pointers or worry about memory leaks because of the garbage collector!" Some two years ago I'd give them two thumbs up because I fucking hated learning that shit.