Arkane PREY - Arkane's immersive coffee cup transformation sim - now with Mooncrash roguelike mode DLC

[Carrion]

The hate for ladders proves that Bethesda is indeed involved in this. I do somewhat agree on their reasoning, though, because ladders really aren't that interesting from a gameplay perspective.

Complexity is about presentation.
Having systems working together is what depth is. Complexity is when you don't explain how to make it work.

Yeah, I assume that by "complexity" they meant how things appear on the surface, i.e. preferring to keep things as intuitive as possible rather than needlessly convoluted. In principle there's nothing wrong with this kind of thinking, but of course there are many potential pitfalls when you're designing a game for the modern AAA audience that can't find their way out of a room without a compass pointing them to the door.

I still haven't played either Dishonored game, so I don't know all that much about the quality of Arkane's recent offerings, but I do like what I've seen and heard so far about this one. There's just something about the whole space station thing that gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling.

 

[Ash]

Complexity is "the state or quality of being intricate or complicated." I'm going with that. Depth is how far the components of said complexity can cumulatively go. As in the jump command has a lot of uses while the slide command does not have quite so many. therefore the jump command is a deeper component.

And games are very complex software. Yet they have the potential to be exponentially more so, yet the majority hold us back.

Complexity is when you don't explain how to make it work.

But people enjoy figuring out how to make things work. People doing that is how the playing of video games is even possible today. Old school gamers are always whining about spoonfeeding, and rightly so. Many new gamers only don't complain because they have no point of reference.
As long as it's intuitive, that should be the only parameter that is met in that regard.

Anyhow, all this depth vs complexity, less is more (regarding gameplay) nonsense is lies they tell themselves to justify selling their soul to Bethimax and making lackluster games. Even as a simple/moderately complex game and judging it based on its merits and intentions Dishonored isn't particularly engrossing. Still better than most trash these days but that;s not saying much, of course.

 

[Dev_Anj]

Of course they are not good games and the difficulty is artificial,

Surprised nobody has jumped on you for this statement yet, this being the Codex and all.

 

[Ash]

He received an appropriate

rating from me just as you posted that. Would have ignored it if only he didn't have a Twitcher avatar, which is a game absolutely destroyed by DSouls in terms of gameplay, making DS the better game in the strictest definition of the word.

ladders really aren't that interesting from a gameplay perspective

Neither is, say, swimming when looked at singularly. But there can be interesting scenarios. Being ambushed while on a ladder. Picking up step ladders and throwing them at people. The intense vulnerability you face when on them and so on. And they're absolutely essential to add additional verticality to games that don't have magical teleportation, weapons that essentially create ladders as seen in PREY, or super jumps.

Arkane's gameplay design sucks these days and their hate for ladders probably reflects that.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

Thief was a simple but deep game, so I agree with Raph's statement.

 

[LESS T_T]

Two moar coverage:

Prey: Arkane’s Seth Shain on the design of Talos 1’s mysterious aliens http://stevivor.com/2016/12/prey-arkanes-seth-shain-designing-talos-1s-mysterious-aliens/

Prey is "one big mission" where anything you do at any point "potentially has an impact on the end" http://www.gamesradar.com/prey-is-o...y-point-potentially-has-an-impact-on-the-end/

 

[WhiteGuts]

Prey is "one big mission" where anything you do at any point "potentially has an impact on the end"

Wow, never heard that one before.

 

[vortex]

Arkane is really throwing the info out. Maybe Prey will have release date in Q1 2017.

 

[Carrion]

Neither is, say, swimming when looked at singularly. But there can be interesting scenarios.

Sure. Prey does have alternative methods to create verticality, though, so it makes sense for them to prefer those. Their goal is to keep the player in full control at all times rather than locking you into "ladder mode" (or using those sticky old school shooter ladders that allow for 360-degree movement and don't really work like ladders at all), which is a very immersive sim-like philosophy. While I don't think that "fuck ladders" should be some universal game design rule, in this context I don't see it as a negative.

 

[vivec]

To address some of the discussion going on above.

PoE is a complex game, but is it interesting? It's also a deep game, but is it good? It has a shit ton of words in it, but is the plot compelling?

Quantity != Quality.

 

[Ash]

Quantity != Quality.

Of course. That goes without saying.
When someone is calling for more of something, naturally they also want that thing to be executed well/quality too.

Their goal is to keep the player in full control at all times rather than locking you into "ladder mode" (or using those sticky old school shooter ladders that allow for 360-degree movement and don't really work like ladders at all), which is a very immersive sim-like philosophy

What's next, removing swimming because you're locked in "Swim mode" and can't use your weapons in this state? Removing "jump mode" because while airborne you have no air control? Removing "Slide mode" because while sliding you're vulnerable and can't alter velocity?

It's bullshit. Ultimate freedom is not a good goal to aim for, and is not something LGS aimed for. Pure sandbox games are boring. Consequences are just as important as choices, and a consequence of opting to climb a ladder is additional vulnerability by taking away some control (in a simulated and semi-realistic manner, no less).

Thief was a simple but deep game, so I agree with Raph's statement.

Thief is the most overrated Immersive Sim and was a compromise with the goal of funding Ultima Underworld 3 because their better games were not selling. Underworld series, System Shock series and Deus Ex are far better.

 

[Carrion]

What's next, removing swimming because you're locked in "Swim mode" and can't use your weapons in this state? Removing "jump mode" because while airborne you have no air control? Removing "Slide mode" because while sliding you're vulnerable and can't alter velocity?

It's bullshit.

I agree. They are correct about the fact that ladders are often a rather lazy way of adding verticality to your level design, though, and in games you often see them in places where they make little sense. Figuring out clever ways of making vertical levels without always going for the most obvious and gamey solution could lead to some interesting stuff, like the rope arrows in Thief or the Speed Enhancement in Deus Ex*, as Arkane are among the few devs today who still seem to know how to create cool levels in three dimensions. Plus, the game takes place on a space station with probably some unique architecture, so such general guidelines might be appropriate. You're right that removal of features because of their limiting nature is in general just bullshit, and if it was coming from some random developer I'd probably dismiss it outright, but again, it all depends on the context.

* Or maybe it's just like the Blink in Dishonored... Eh, I want to give them the benefit of the doubt at this point.

 

[Ash]

Ladders aren't exactly a gamey concept. They're a real life tool to get to an elevated position. If anything, guns that create ladders, magical teleportation and super jumps are gamey concepts while ladders are not...not that there is anything wrong with gamey concepts anyway, as Immersive Sims are games, filled with gamey concepts like balance, C&C (in the sense that all choices must have sensible rewards or downsides appropriately, such as picking a lock should have fair loot behind), and fun scripting.

I don't think it's a"lazy" way to add verticality either. It's just another design tool. Deus Ex had super jumps, elevators, box stacking and ladders all in abundance. Nice variety.

Arkane are among the few devs today who still seem to know how to create cool levels in three dimensions

Agreed. Although mostly only from a layout perspective. The events and challenges that occur in the levels are usually uninteresting and unengaging, and their overall gameplay and systems don't reward or provide incentive for exploration of the levels adequately. Lacks substance despite being one of few these days that understands the simple premise that 3D levels should actually make use of the third dimension.

 

[toro]

Arkane is really throwing the info out. Maybe Prey will have release date in Q1 2017.

They fucked up with Dishonored 2. They need to reassure Bethesda that they are good boys.

Edit: And it's weird. The game is 3-4 months away from release date and they are pushing it like crazy.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

id Soft and Tango Gameworks fucked up worse and they're still around.

 

[Siel]

Arkane is really throwing the info out. Maybe Prey will have release date in Q1 2017.

They fucked up with Dishonored 2. They need to reassure Bethesda that they are good boys.

Edit: And it's weird. The game is 3-4 months away from release date and they are pushing it like crazy.

It's a new IP and has that blending of genres and themes modern gaaamers can't recognize on the fly. First Dishonored was already marketed in 2011 and it released late 2012.

 

[Ranarama]

I was onboard with PREY until the trailer turned into generic shooter. Thought there might be real C&C. Do you have milk? Sugar? Do you go out this time to a cafe? Will you have to run to the toilet after your coffee? NPCs commenting on your coffee breath. It could have been amazing with countless branching storylines.

 

[Siel]

 

[Siel]

Some more preview:
http://www.gamereactor.eu/articles/490973/Arkane+Studios+set+its+sights+on+its+latest+Prey/
http://www.gamereactor.eu/news/490943/Arkanes+Raphael+Colantonio+discusses+storytelling+methods/
http://www.gamereactor.eu/news/490873/Ricardo+Bare+We+make+one+kind+of+game+here+at+Arkane/

 

[MuscleSpark]

New part of Game Informer's feature: The Powers In Prey Are Out Of This World

 

[MuscleSpark]

More Gamereactor coverage: Arkane Studios on the perfect Prey

 

[LESS T_T]

More Gamereactor coverage: Arkane Studios on the perfect Prey

More possibility of Mimic ability:

Staying with the powers, we asked about what limits the powers had. "You can use the powers as much are you want," he explained, "but you do have several limitations. One of them is the kinds of things you can mimic. So you can mimic anything that is roughly your size or smaller, and it has to be a free object, so something that isn't bolted to the ground. Typically, most of the physics objects in the games are objects you can carry in your inventory, you can mimic those. But then you can upgrade the power so eventually you can mimic more complex things like operators, which are what we call the helper robots that exist on the station." Turrets are also included in the space station, which can be mimicked as well.

Bare also revealed that "while you are mimicked as an object you can still use other powers, so that lets you do some really cool combinations, like blasting yourself across the room or sneaking past somebody [...] you could be in the form of a coffee mug while you are hacking a computer that's 30 metres away from you. The possibilities are really cool."

I like that the game seemingly has more physics elements and object interactions than Dishonored. I guess I could carry companion turrets like did in DX:HR.

Subtle camera animations:

In terms of how you control this player, the subtle things are important for Arkane. "We put a lot of effort into feeling of being in a body," he continued. "The way the camera animates when you jump and land, or the slight tilting when you run. There's a lot of making you feel like you're in a body [...] that is something we spend actually much, much more time than people believe."

I hope they also have Shock-like movement control, but I guess they haven't.

 

[Siel]

 

[Siel]

Raf interview:

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featu...n-for-more-bold-hardcore-games-like-prey.aspx

 

[anus_pounder]

Looking good, looking good. The dishonored games were abysmal, but it looks like Arkane Studios has a few learning animals in the pack.