Prelude to Darkness - anyone tried it?

[Saint_Proverbius]

I've been playing with the demo for a little while, and I was wondering if I was the only one.

You can get the game here:

http://www.zero-sum.com

About the only thing that has really made me scratch my head so far was character creation. You need to decide your attributes so you can pick your background.

Everything else seemed straight forward. One thing I found that was really neat is that the first guy that talks to you tells you that you were selected for the assignment based upon your characters' abilities.. AND HE LISTS THEM! The Dialogue knows your abilities.. Very cool, indeed.

 

[SexExitium]

 

[Walks with the Snails]

Yeah, it looks nice. I haven't gone through all the help files, but I'm a bit curious if you can learn new skills in-game, and what skills your NPC recruits will have. I just hate going into a game like that not knowing if I'm going to be able to eventually have a party with all the bases covered, if everyone and their dog will have skill X, if I'm never going to find a good axe while magic swords grow on trees, stuff like that.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Well, what I want to know is the opposite, really. Will unbalanced parties work?

It's not hard to make a party based CRPG where balanced parties work. You just have to throw a bit of everything in to the game. Mix a bunch of traps, combat, spell casters, and so on, and go with that. You have a CRPG where balanced parties work.

It's much harder to make one that also allows unbalanced parties to work, since you need to make alternative means of doing things. For example, there's a physical resistant beast guarding a door and you don't have any casters in your party. What do you do? Can a stealth party sneak around the beast, or find another way in? There's a hallway filled with traps and you have to trap disarming people. What do you do? Is there a way to disable them elsewhere?

That's kind of what I'm interested in.

 

[Constipated Craprunner]

Prov, in your view, what games have done this well?
Also, just out of curiosity, will the game allow a diplomat class? Say for instance, your group has a Thief, a Fighter, a mage and a diplomant?
Also, what do you think of the 3D move?

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Prov, in your view, what games have done this well?

None that I can think of really. Demise was pretty good about it up until Level 5 or so, but then you might need to start balancing things.

Also, just out of curiosity, will the game allow a diplomat class? Say for instance, your group has a Thief, a Fighter, a mage and a diplomant?

Well, there's a few backgrounds devoted to speech, as you can see in the Backgrounds article:

http://www.rpgcodex.com/content.php?id=12

Merchant and Bard stand out as far as that goes.

Also, what do you think of the 3D move?

It wouldn't bother me if it were done well. There's a few quirks in this game due to the 3D engine. Demise was 3D, and I played it for a few months.

 

[Walks with the Snails]

True, I guess I just kind of assume a game won't let unbalanced parties do everything at this point. Plus, I usually have a compulsion to try to get absolutely everything in the game in one go.

There are also plenty of options for diplomats. My party has a farmer, merchant, and acolyte, and I just select the merchant as party leader in town and she does all the talking. Anybody can take speech as a skill, too.

 

[SexExitium]

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

True, I guess I just kind of assume a game won't let unbalanced parties do everything at this point. Plus, I usually have a compulsion to try to get absolutely everything in the game in one go.

There are also plenty of options for diplomats. My party has a farmer, merchant, and acolyte, and I just select the merchant as party leader in town and she does all the talking. Anybody can take speech as a skill, too.

I went with a Druid, a Scholar, and a Bodyguard, and there's this one road ambush that ALWAYS kills me. So, it looks like I might remake my party with two bodyguards and a Scholar or other caster type.

That Leader thing is pretty good. I let my Scholar do most of the talking as well simply because he's the best at it.

 

[Walks with the Snails]

I've noticed the nature skill lets you detect ambushes and try to avoid them. I haven't gotten out of the first town, though. My farmer has proven pretty useful since he's nice in a fight with the stat bonuses and learns up his armor skill quickly when he's decked out and absorbing blows from enemies. I'm thinking of trying a farmer, thief, and scholar, though. With pickpocket, you really don't need barter since you can rob the shopkeepers blind. All my acolyte manages to succeed with is the blind druid and some townsfolk, though.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

I went with a Guardian, Scholar, and a Bodyguard. Two thumpers and a caster. My bodyguard has Medical, so he heals the party a bit after every battle, which is nice to have.

I actually killed an ambush this time around, so that makes me happy. I got some nice armor out of that.

I will say this though, if you're going to rest as a newbie party, going to the Inn and shelling out the 10 draches is a HELL of a lot better than resting, since I can't seem to rest without bad guys showing up and hurting me.

I'll have to try that Nature thing, because those ambushes can be extremely hard.

 

[Rosh]

Well, it will be good when they:

Get rid of the bugs. A hard lock when you're trying to save isn't good. Graphical errors like seeing the ground through a doorway from the outside of the building, and seeing a fire, doors, and other tiles in the black "not seen" areas.

Get a clue about interface design. That is a classic example of a piss-poor interface. It's hardly functional.

Now for combat, it's often hard to see what is going on. There's hardly enything to tell you what's going on aside from a blue diamond on the ground and to really know anything, you need to right-click on an enemy and see the attack abilities.

A help menu designed with some competence. Digging through multiple pages back and forth is very annoying. Put the combat help in a SINGLE, SCROLLABLE PAGE. Same thing with other topics. It shouldn't take guesswork as to what topic to pick to go "back" (whoa, there's another concept) to check the properties about another race. For ease, I just quit and restarted the help system after looking at each.

Hire someone to do their music and fire the epileptic earthworm they have currently mixing. Thank goodness you can turn that shit off.

I think this game also makes a strong argument AGAINST 3d.

Other than that, it's a nice alpha.

 

[Walks with the Snails]

Yeah, it needs more polish before I'd be willing to shell out money for it. There's also problems with selecting things, I had to fiddle with the view a bit sometimes (okay, quite a few times) before it would let me select things. And having to manually reboot fairly often is annoying, too, though to its credit it still kept me coming back for more. I think it's got lots of promise, though, hope they keep working on it.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Well, it will be good when they:

Get rid of the bugs. A hard lock when you're trying to save isn't good. Graphical errors like seeing the ground through a doorway from the outside of the building, and seeing a fire, doors, and other tiles in the black "not seen" areas.

I've never had the hard lock on save. Usually it's a after a load it and quit a half a dozen times. Then again, most Direct3D applications do that.

Get a clue about interface design. That is a classic example of a piss-poor interface. It's hardly functional.

I agree. The interface could stand some improvement. However, there's a good reason the interface is complicated, and that's because there's a lot of things you can do within the game. The more complex the game, the more complex the interface design.

There are hotkeys though.

Now for combat, it's often hard to see what is going on. There's hardly enything to tell you what's going on aside from a blue diamond on the ground and to really know anything, you need to right-click on an enemy and see the attack abilities.

What's worse is that you can't really see who's turn it is when it's dark, because the interface overlays are also darkenned by dark areas for some strange reason.

You don't have to use the right click though, you can just click on the enemies and it'll do a standard attack. There's also several hotkeys, like W for "wait", and D for "defend".

A help menu designed with some competence. Digging through multiple pages back and forth is very annoying. Put the combat help in a SINGLE, SCROLLABLE PAGE. Same thing with other topics. It shouldn't take guesswork as to what topic to pick to go "back" (whoa, there's another concept) to check the properties about another race. For ease, I just quit and restarted the help system after looking at each.

BACK! Yeah, I totally agree. That's something the help system seriously needs.

Hire someone to do their music and fire the epileptic earthworm they have currently mixing. Thank goodness you can turn that shit off.

I rarely like music in games anyway.

I think this game also makes a strong argument AGAINST 3d.

I tend to agree. I think the 3D thing works against this title. The terrain has heights, but it's hard to tell because of the texturing and lack of shading, for example.

The game does take advantage of 3D models to show armor and weapons being used though, which is nice. However, they could have still used 3D models and 2D tiling.

Other than that, it's a nice alpha.

I've noticed a few other bugs.

I saw a Mantid's pathfinding get hung on one of my characters trying to get to other character. Fortunately, the program allows you to still exit the program even though the pathfinding is infinite looping.

For some reason, my spells don't work on mantids or humans. They work on lupins and hoppers though. No idea why that is.

Magic is hideously weak in the game. For one, it lacks any type of range at all. You have to get right up on the enemy to use Flame Fountian or Flame Finger for example. This is fairly silly because mages are typically not the kind of people who need to be standing right next to enemies who can kill them in a few hits. The enemy loves to smack the characters with as little armor as possible, and that means your mage. On the animals it does work on, you typically get 6 damage out of a Flame Snake spell which is horribly weak compared to what fighters can do.

Likewise, my healing spell, "Mother's Kiss", only heals 6 points.

Another thing, I've never seen my magic skills advance. Combat skills and Armor seems to go up in combat by use, but I've cast gobs of curing spells and Flame Snakes, and never had the magic skill advance. Barter and the other noncombat skills don't seem to go up either.

Yeah, it needs more polish before I'd be willing to shell out money for it. There's also problems with selecting things, I had to fiddle with the view a bit sometimes (okay, quite a few times) before it would let me select things

Did you try the ALT key? That actually helps quite a bit. Even works on those people that walk too fast to talk to.

I actually restarted again, though.. Farmer, Merchant, and Guardian this time. Screw Flame magic. My Farmer does have Gift of the Goddess though, so he can heal. However, that spell is fairly weak, as mentioned above.

You know what this game really needs is a DIFFICULTY SETTING. I trained my party for days, and eventually I bought the best equipment in Kellen. However, I still can't overcome fights with road ambushes.

But you're right, it does have something that keeps me coming back to it.

 

[Walks with the Snails]

Yeah, I used the ALT key a lot, just some angles it was impossible to select people, chests, and the like. Some things that would show in with ALT, like cabinets and chests, I never could get to work.

All I did in the end was pickpocket Heira until it said she had nothing to steal, sold her stuff back to her for 3000+ gold, then bought out the blacksmith. Kind of simplified matters a bit. The NPC's, helped, too. The girl at the inn and the butcher's apprentice were pretty gimpy, but a druid tracked me down saying I was destined to save the valley while I was wandering around. She had nice spells, stats, and skills, and she even taught my merchant spellcaster a spell. I don't think the nature spells have a prerequisite skill level, high skill just makes them more effective maybe.

I found some use for the Acolyte by lining up those cave dwellers and then using that first flame spell over and over on both of them before running out of mana. It was the only way I was able to beat them at the time, since they'd wear down my farmer before the rest could kill them. I never managed to raise any skills except combat ones, either. I must have used pickpocket 100 times and it never raised past 10, even with 19 intelligence. Dagger would sometimes raise every two hits on the other hand.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Yeah, I used the ALT key a lot, just some angles it was impossible to select people, chests, and the like. Some things that would show in with ALT, like cabinets and chests, I never could get to work.

Those are probably empty chests and cabinets, but there should be feedback on those for their empty state if that's the case.

All I did in the end was pickpocket Heira until it said she had nothing to steal, sold her stuff back to her for 3000+ gold, then bought out the blacksmith. Kind of simplified matters a bit.

What character did you use to pickpocket? What was the skill of that pickpocket?

The NPC's, helped, too. The girl at the inn and the butcher's apprentice were pretty gimpy,

I've never been able to get either of them. I haven't been able to solve that quest to find out who the father of that barmaid's kid is either. In fact, the only quest I've managed so far as the one with Cronis's fence.

but a druid tracked me down saying I was destined to save the valley while I was wandering around. She had nice spells, stats, and skills, and she even taught my merchant spellcaster a spell. I don't think the nature spells have a prerequisite skill level, high skill just makes them more effective maybe.

They require skill levels, it's just that Growth is Gift of Goddess level 1.

I've only been able to get that druid girl once, and that was in my first attempt when I had a druid.

I found some use for the Acolyte by lining up those cave dwellers and then using that first flame spell over and over on both of them before running out of mana. It was the only way I was able to beat them at the time, since they'd wear down my farmer before the rest could kill them. I never managed to raise any skills except combat ones, either. I must have used pickpocket 100 times and it never raised past 10, even with 19 intelligence. Dagger would sometimes raise every two hits on the other hand.

I wonder if this is a bug, because there's references to having Tinker of 60 and the like in the help files. If they don't improve with use, it's going to be damned hard to get those to rise because the XP bonuses are fairly rare from what I've seen. Then again, I've only been able to do one, whopping quest.

I've picked up a few, but I'm not sure what to do with them. I even followed the Barmaid to that tree she goes to at 3AM, but she just stood there by the tree. No one contacted her.

 

[Walks with the Snails]

All I did in the end was pickpocket Heira until it said she had nothing to steal, sold her stuff back to her for 3000+ gold, then bought out the blacksmith. Kind of simplified matters a bit.

What character did you use to pickpocket? What was the skill of that pickpocket?

I used my acolyte with 10 pickpocket and 15 dex. The other shopkeepers would always catch him, but I guess she was easier since she was blind.

The NPC's, helped, too. The girl at the inn and the butcher's apprentice were pretty gimpy,

I've never been able to get either of them. I haven't been able to solve that quest to find out who the father of that barmaid's kid is either. In fact, the only quest I've managed so far as the one with Cronis's fence.

The girl will join you after you finish a few quests. She's got 10 sword and then 2 skill in everything but the magical ones. The butcher's apprentice has 10 axe and 5 in a few other skills, I think barter and medical being the most notable. I'll try not to spoil it, but you need to figure out what happened to your contact to get him.

but a druid tracked me down saying I was destined to save the valley while I was wandering around. She had nice spells, stats, and skills, and she even taught my merchant spellcaster a spell. I don't think the nature spells have a prerequisite skill level, high skill just makes them more effective maybe.

They require skill levels, it's just that Growth is Gift of Goddess level 1.

I've only been able to get that druid girl once, and that was in my first attempt when I had a druid.

I guess she's just random. My merchant had 10 gift of goddess and only one spell and she had like 11 and 5 or 6 spells. I didn't see any prerequisite skill listed like with my acolyte, either.

I found some use for the Acolyte by lining up those cave dwellers and then using that first flame spell over and over on both of them before running out of mana. It was the only way I was able to beat them at the time, since they'd wear down my farmer before the rest could kill them. I never managed to raise any skills except combat ones, either. I must have used pickpocket 100 times and it never raised past 10, even with 19 intelligence. Dagger would sometimes raise every two hits on the other hand.

I wonder if this is a bug, because there's references to having Tinker of 60 and the like in the help files. If they don't improve with use, it's going to be damned hard to get those to rise because the XP bonuses are fairly rare from what I've seen. Then again, I've only been able to do one, whopping quest.

I've picked up a few, but I'm not sure what to do with them. I even followed the Barmaid to that tree she goes to at 3AM, but she just stood there by the tree. No one contacted her.

I wound up with 11 exp after solving most of the quests except the missing boy and the fence. Solving the pregnant girl's dilemma is worth a good bit. It is fairly prohibitive to only raise skills that way, though. Maybe if it was just magic it would be fine, but all the other skills would just be too much.

You almost got it by following her out of town, you just need to check the tree she was at.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

I fired off an email to Mat Williams, the head designer and coder for the game. Here's what he said about the issues I raised:

> 1.) Noncombat skills and spell skills never seem to go up with
> usage while combat skills go up a great deal with use.

yes, they raise much more difficulty and xp is meant to speant primarily on non-combat skills as it's usually gained as a result of non-combat actions.

> 2.) Approach never takes in to account the range of the weapon. A
> polearm character will march right up to the adjacent square of the
> bad guy even though his weapon has a range of two.

hmmm. This seems like a bug, I'll check it out further and fix it in the first patch.

> 3.) Flame spells don't seem to work at all versus humans and
> Mantids in my game. They do work on Dwellers, Hoppers, and
> Lupins though. There is no feedback on why they aren't working
> either. The spell is cast, the animation is done, but there's no
> "Damage Report" in the text console or flinching from the enemy.
> Examining the enemy before and after confirms no effect.

This is definitely a problem, right now the spell effect seems to be a little too specific in area.

> 4.) Magic is wimpy. Really, really wimpy. Even when it does work, it
> rarely gives more than 6 damage for the ranged spells. You can do
> much better damage with a thumper character or even a bow
> character.

Yes, magic starts out rather weak. It does gain power rapidly with skil improvement and is _very_ powerful by the end game. Also it has a couple tactical advantages when used carefully in that it can affect multiple enemies, or large enemies multiple times. The starting spells are (obviously) a variation on a specific spell, they extend outwards from the caster, range also varies with skill, so they get a lot more useful later in the game, and learning new spells also increases a flame wielders utility.

Unlike many games, we don't require a caster to not be able to fight as well, it is possible to have a "tank-mage" or an armor focused caster who gets up close and personal. All that being said, it may need to be pumped up a bit. <grin>

> 5.) Mantids occationally have a pathinfing issue when they try to go
> around one character to get to another. They end up getting hung
> up on a character.

Obviously a bug. <sigh> I'll look at it.

> 6.) "Alt" doesn't work in combat. This would make it a lot easier to
> spot those bad guys you can't find because they're behind
> something.

This should be easy to add in.

So, as you can see, they are still working on the game and addressing issues for it. YAY!

I used my acolyte with 10 pickpocket and 15 dex. The other shopkeepers would always catch him, but I guess she was easier since she was blind.

That sounds like a good reason for it to be easy. I am curious how much a thief gets for those things, though. Thieves start with 15 Pickpocket, so I wonder if they'd be able to loot from more than the blind shopkeeper.

The girl will join you after you finish a few quests. She's got 10 sword and then 2 skill in everything but the magical ones. The butcher's apprentice has 10 axe and 5 in a few other skills, I think barter and medical being the most notable. I'll try not to spoil it, but you need to figure out what happened to your contact to get him.

I figured you'd have to prove yourself to the town before she'd join you.

Neat, I found the contact's corpse. I may go back and see if that triggers it.

I guess she's just random. My merchant had 10 gift of goddess and only one spell and she had like 11 and 5 or 6 spells. I didn't see any prerequisite skill listed like with my acolyte, either.

She approached my party right off the bat when I had a druid as my leader. I hadn't even done the fence quest at that point, though I did find her on the Western side of that fenced area. Been there with all my other party members and never seen her yet.

I wound up with 11 exp after solving most of the quests except the missing boy and the fence. Solving the pregnant girl's dilemma is worth a good bit. It is fairly prohibitive to only raise skills that way, though. Maybe if it was just magic it would be fine, but all the other skills would just be too much.

Finding the missing boy might be a problem. I halfway suspect he's in that Dweller Cavern or where the Lupins are being forced up from the mines.

You almost got it by following her out of town, you just need to check the tree she was at.

DOH.

 

[Rosh]

Yeah, the barmaid quest is fun. I'm tempted to go through this game in "Bastard Mode", because of what I did. I got 350 drach, a sword, and some other nifty things for it, but I don't know if it will have some adverse effect later on...perhaps I might not be able to get the recruitable NPC at the Inn for being a greedy bastard.

It's also good they are still working on the game. I've got some other things that are a bit of a problem. These aren't all of them, I'll list more in a bit.

Movement of NPCs. WAY TOO %&^$&*ING FAST.

NPCs in a schedule that reply as (saydesc [NPC is sleeping.]), while walking. Minor, but something to check out.

"Finding items that are just lying around" seems to be determined by pickpocket skill or something, regardless if the NPCs in the building are asleep or not. They will wake up for a moment and tell you to leave it be, then drop right off again.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Yeah, the barmaid quest is fun. I'm tempted to go through this game in "Bastard Mode", because of what I did. I got 350 drach, a sword, and some other nifty things for it, but I don't know if it will have some adverse effect later on...perhaps I might not be able to get the recruitable NPC at the Inn for being a greedy bastard.

Yeah, I noticed that as well. You could do the QUICK yet EVIL means of doing this quest, or the longer GOOD way. The GOOD way seems to offer more XP and a shield, but the QUICK yet EVIL offers the same sword and more money and takes much less time.

There are also EVIL things you can do along the way in this quest too.

It's also good they are still working on the game. I've got some other things that are a bit of a problem. These aren't all of them, I'll list more in a bit.

Mat also brought up weapons balancing, which is great because I currently don't see a reason to buy a normal Longsword over the Ironwood Longsword. The Ironwood Longsword does less damage, but it's also faster. You can make up for the lack of damage with more and better attacks due to the speed of the Ironwood Longsword.

Movement of NPCs. WAY TOO %&^$&*ING FAST.

I agree. Even though alt stops them, it'd be better if they just moved slower.

NPCs in a schedule that reply as (saydesc [NPC is sleeping.]), while walking. Minor, but something to check out.

I haven't noticed this, I have noticed them sleeping while they appeared to be standing up though.

One problem I noticed is that I rested in a house outside of Kellen. Bandits attacked while I was in the house. The cool thing is that Bandits also go after the people in the house. The bad part is, they don't seem to wake up while the bandits are killing them.

"Finding items that are just lying around" seems to be determined by pickpocket skill or something, regardless if the NPCs in the building are asleep or not. They will wake up for a moment and tell you to leave it be, then drop right off again.

I noticed this as well. This could definitely be handled better.

 

[Walks with the Snails]

Yeah, I'd also sometimes get weird gossip considering the source, too, like Salomon or his daughter saying, "Salomon is willing to pay anyone who can find the father of her child."

The quest about the girl's child was pretty well-done I thought, since there was more than one solution depending on how you decided to react. There were also nice little things like people responding logically to your actions, and it's always cool when NPC's wander back home to go to sleep at night. There were lots of nice little touches that made it feel more real. Only thing I might do differently is occasionally let your character get screwed over or taken advantage of for always doing the right thing. From what I saw, you pretty much always came out ahead by being nice, except for maybe a little petty larceny when people's backs were turned. I always that it was funny in Avernum when you turn the Castle upside-down for the King's Son's expensive ring, and then he doesn't even thank you for returning it and you get a measly 10 experience.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Yeah, I'd also sometimes get weird gossip considering the source, too, like Salomon or his daughter saying, "Salomon is willing to pay anyone who can find the father of her child."

I got pretty much the same thing from the retired guardian who told me, "Altanis is a retired guardian."

The quest about the girl's child was pretty well-done I thought, since there was more than one solution depending on how you decided to react. There were also nice little things like people responding logically to your actions, and it's always cool when NPC's wander back home to go to sleep at night.

If you botch/bastard that quest, the NPC in the inn won't join you afterwards. She will join you if you do it correctly. I'm not sure if you can make up for that by helping additional people though.

I've got her and the butcher's lackey now. I've started preying on road ambushes to outfit and make money.. heh heh heh

Anyone else noticed that some of those bandit chief/leader/commanders dual wield?

There were lots of nice little touches that made it feel more real.

I agree. I like the fact that people leave their shops and go to their homes. It's also neat that the bar wench goes out to that tree on schedule as well. While it may not be the most accurate representation of life, it still adds a nice touch of flavor.

Only thing I might d differently is occasionally let your character get screwed over or taken advantage of for always doing the right thing. From what I saw, you pretty much always came out ahead by being nice, except for maybe a little petty larceny when people's backs were turned. I always that it was funny in Avernum when you turn the Castle upside-down for the King's Son's expensive ring, and then he doesn't even thank you for returning it and you get a measly 10 experience.

Trying to do this without spoilers

Have you tried declining the butcher lackey's joining? I halfway wonder if that doesn't end up screwing you and the town over.

 

[Anonymous]

Prelude comments from a beta tester

Hey guys,

was quite surprised to see a discussion on this game. I was a beta tester last april for Prelude, and it had so many bugs that i'm amazed to see that it has actually been released to the general public.

Some comments that might be helpful:

a) NPCs:

If you refuse to let an NPC join your party you can always hook up with them later.
Similarly, you can dismiss an NPC who has joined your party. They will go wait for you at an Inn of your choice, and you can pick them up at any time after that.

Yes, the NPC's that you meet in kellen seem pretty gimpy. However, they earn XP like everyone else and you can boost their stats to create specialists (for instance a person with a high mechanical aptitude) that you take with you on certain missions. Plus there are some pretty powerful npc's later in the game in the barrier and the citadel.

b) XP

XP is gained through noncombat situations in this game. This allows the writers to ensure that by the time you reach a particular quest you aren't superpowered for it.

You don't gain that much XP in kellen, so don't expect to hit 60 on any stats.

You have to realize that kellen is 1/20th of the game. It's a pretty minor portion (I think there are 8 quests in kellen as opposed to hundreds for the game as a whole).

It gets pretty cool when you get to the other cities in the full version. Kellen is very small compared to the citadel or the barrier. And when the plot picks up it gets very very fun.

Problem was that the beta I was testinig crashed all the time. YOu'd try to open a cabinet... bing... no warning... back to desktop. Especially in the citadel.



c) evil vs good.

The game seems to favour playing good. This ties in to the overall plot which isn't revealed in kellen. But you have plenty of opportunities to be evil, and as long as you are careful I think you can still finish the game that way.

d) Balanced vs unbalanced parties.


You will not win the game very easily if you build super combat characters. You really need speech, tinker and nature skills to have a good shot of finishing some of the quests.

Since only one person per party needs to have a skill in order for the party to have it, i think the game favours teams of specialists.

I recall that in the beta version I played, hand weapons like swords were pretty useless.

But bows and arrows were deadly because they could shoot through trees and obstacles, and fire in hand to hand combat. I created 3 archers and was unstoppable once you get the 'cripple' attack at archery skill 40. Hopefully they fixed that, because it wasn't much of a challenge to win... just tedium.



I turfed prelude for neverwinter nights, which has the advantage of being stable. But I think prelude is a much more memorable game, if you can put up with the glitches. Very old school rpging, which I like compared to the modern dungeon siege crap.

Cheers

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Re: Prelude comments from a beta tester

Hey guys,

was quite surprised to see a discussion on this game. I was a beta tester last april for Prelude, and it had so many bugs that i'm amazed to see that it has actually been released to the general public.

Well, we're not exactly a mainstream CRPG site.

Some comments that might be helpful:

a) NPCs:

If you refuse to let an NPC join your party you can always hook up with them later.
Similarly, you can dismiss an NPC who has joined your party. They will go wait for you at an Inn of your choice, and you can pick them up at any time after that.

I found this out when I ditched the Druid lady whom Mena didn't trust. That's fairly nice that dismissing them doesn't mean "forever".

Yes, the NPC's that you meet in kellen seem pretty gimpy. However, they earn XP like everyone else and you can boost their stats to create specialists (for instance a person with a high mechanical aptitude) that you take with you on certain missions. Plus there are some pretty powerful npc's later in the game in the barrier and the citadel.

After outfitting them, they seem to be able to stand well on their own. I gave the butcher a Balanced Great Axe, which seems to work well for him. However, the main problem with the girl you get in the Inn in Kellen has a really, really low speed, so she's not as effective. I think the main reason to keep her is that she can become nearly anything though, since she has so many skills.

b) XP

XP is gained through noncombat situations in this game. This allows the writers to ensure that by the time you reach a particular quest you aren't superpowered for it.

You don't gain that much XP in kellen, so don't expect to hit 60 on any stats.

The only quest I haven't done in Kellen is finding that farmer's kid. Then again, there's not much of a lead on what to do with that quest either.

You have to realize that kellen is 1/20th of the game. It's a pretty minor portion (I think there are 8 quests in kellen as opposed to hundreds for the game as a whole).

It gets pretty cool when you get to the other cities in the full version. Kellen is very small compared to the citadel or the barrier. And when the plot picks up it gets very very fun.

I'm really going to have to see this Barrier city. Mat's been telling me that it's impressive. He mentioned it in the interview we did with him as well.

Problem was that the beta I was testinig crashed all the time. YOu'd try to open a cabinet... bing... no warning... back to desktop. Especially in the citadel.

I've had a few lock ups, but I haven't seen a dump to desktop yet. Frankly, I'd rather have the desktop dumps.

c) evil vs good.

The game seems to favour playing good. This ties in to the overall plot which isn't revealed in kellen. But you have plenty of opportunities to be evil, and as long as you are careful I think you can still finish the game that way.

Most CRPGs seem to be this way. It's fairly difficult to make a game balanced between good and evil on a shoe string budget and with a group of first time developers. However, I feel that Prelude to Darkness does do a number of things very well despite this.

d) Balanced vs unbalanced parties.


You will not win the game very easily if you build super combat characters. You really need speech, tinker and nature skills to have a good shot of finishing some of the quests.

Well, this is one thing I like about Prelude to Darkness. You can actually start with wimpy merchants, farmers, and other people of backgrounds that have the skills you need, like speech. However, you can train them in combat by picking fights with bandits and road ambushes. My merchant is pretty nasty with an Ironwood Axe now. :D

Since only one person per party needs to have a skill in order for the party to have it, i think the game favours teams of specialists.

It seems to do that. However, I have ditched Flame magic now. I'm basically a Brute Squad of thumpers now, but most of my thumpers also have non-combat skills or were built from noncombat backgrounds. I've just picked a lot of fights with them to make sure they can handle combat as well.

I recall that in the beta version I played, hand weapons like swords were pretty useless.

Daggers and unarmed seem pretty wimpy to me. I have two using longswords, one battle axe, one great axe, and one spear.

But bows and arrows were deadly because they could shoot through trees and obstacles, and fire in hand to hand combat. I created 3 archers and was unstoppable once you get the 'cripple' attack at archery skill 40. Hopefully they fixed that, because it wasn't much of a challenge to win... just tedium.

Bows seem nasty. I haven't used them for my party, but I've been hit by them. They certainly do an impressive amount of damage. I'm just happy that bandits and the like don't have much ammo.

I turfed prelude for neverwinter nights, which has the advantage of being stable. But I think prelude is a much more memorable game, if you can put up with the glitches. Very old school rpging, which I like compared to the modern dungeon siege crap.

That's actually what I like about it, the old school CRPG aspect.

 

[thathmew]

comments and such

Just wanted to hop in and let yall know it's great to see some discussion of the game, I love the feedback, both positive and negative, it will definitely make a difference on how I approach the first patch. Anyone is welcome to email me directly if you have specific comments. balancing ideas, patch priority thoughts, questions, or even better a reproduceable bug. <grin> Coders are welcome to ask me programming questions as well.
I'll try and respond to postings when I get the chance, but I'm pretty busy on the patch. Hopefully I'll get some of the other team members up and active as well soon.

Cheers,
mat williams
lead programmer, creative director
zero sum software
www.zero-sum.com