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Torment Planescape: Torment has bad writing

Self-Ejected

unfairlight

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I agree with you purely because you even dared to say something negative about a game that everyone else loves on this site. I have never played Planetescape: Tornado.
Please enjoy the dumbfuck tag you will get because nazi mods discriminate against newfags. I earned my dumbfuck tag in sweat and blood after daring to shit on a garbage nostalgiafag game, and it appears you are in a similar situation.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
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I agree with you purely because you even dared to say something negative about a game that everyone else loves on this site. I have never played Planetescape: Tornado.
Please enjoy the dumbfuck tag you will get because nazi mods discriminate against newfags. I earned my dumbfuck tag in sweat and blood after daring to shit on a garbage nostalgiafag game, and it appears you are in a similar situation.
I recommend the
possibly_retarded.png
for him,it is far more aesthetic.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
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But what is a cRPG?
eO4VXfh.png


Role-Playing Adventures
You band some adventurers together, equip them with whatever you can afford from the local store, and send them out to an uncertain future, with the ultimate objective of wiping out some monstrously evil being. The challenge of these games is to develop characters that can overcome the final obstacle. These games normally take longer to complete than any other type of game.

From Amiga World Magazine, November 1988. +M
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
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Russia
that's

kinda accurate.


I like that is says "rp adventures". it's quite an important part, the adventure one.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
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Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,949
Pathfinder: Wrath
It puts too much emphasis on narrative and not enough on mechanics, even if it mentions equipping and developing characters.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
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If you gonna compare the writing of Torment to fucking Milton of course it's gonna be shit.

So, what is the argument again?
 

Abhay

Augur
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India
Is it becoming a trend now to shit on old classics? While OP might have some good points to criticise the game, but I don't get the purpose behind it? What's there to gain from letting the codex has bad writing? No game is perfect and there are always some things that can be found weak in some aspects but Planescape is honestly the kind of game that gets a lot of things right. Not the kind of "right" that the actual definition suggests, but the kind of riggt every video game can learn on how to immerse the players within the game world. It does with writing and does so well.
I haven't played the game for a long time now to counter any of the points OP has made so far but I will certainly say that games like Planes ape despite whatever the criticisms may be, still stand out from the current crap of RPG's.

Again, I would like to know what exactly is OP trying to achieve? Is OP saying that its fine to have bad writing even after so many years have passed because even Planescape had bad writing?
Planescape developers dared to create such a game at a time when I don't think the concept of immersing the players in a video game with loads if texts on screen could even be possibily imagined to attract video gamers in playing them. Even today, these type of games are rarely seen, and even if they released it, the chances of it getting enough recognition is going to be always low. So when I compare the developers work on Planescape with todays games, I feel like the game was way ahead of its time. Even after 20 years there's no game that comes close to Planescape in beautifully combining both storytelling and gameplay in such an approach, especially when the times are now perfect for a more mature and thoughtful stories in video games, and yet, how many games have even managed to offer such an experience as Planescape did 20 years back????

Take the time into account before simply trashing the old classics.
 
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unfairlight

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No game is perfect and there are always some things that can be found weak in some aspects but Planescape is honestly the kind of game that gets a lot of things right. Not the kind of "right" that the actual definition suggests, but the kind of riggt every video game can learn on how to immerse the players within the game world. It does with writing and does so well.
Because if a game is always praised for something someone else believes is shit, they are allowed to criticize that something.
 

Wayward Son

Fails to keep valuable team members alive
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aweigh he is spamming that shit everywhere mate,while praising dumpsterfire.
Going out , having a nice meal , a cocktail ,that's a few hundreds euros, at least for me last time. So cant blame kids for shitposting , there's not much to do.
It's even true in Kwa, I can attest. Shitposting is the only pastime that I can afford.
 

Frahnk

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Feb 14, 2015
Messages
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I was speaking about all fictional literature in general, but if Tolkien, Erickson, Sanderson, Rothhuss, or Hobbs played Planescape they would say it has bad writing.
God I hope this is bait, but if it isn't, I'm sorry, but your taste is fucking awful. Your criticism of Torment's writing rings hollow when you list shit like Sanderson and Rothfuss as a superior alternative. If you were listing people like Wolfe, Peake, Harrison, Crowley, Kiernan, or Vance, then you might have a leg to stand on. Instead, you're just grabbing the stuff that r/fantasy jerks themselves raw over. Read better books dude.
Yeah, Torment's prose isn't great. I wouldn't explicitly call it bad, but it does definitely feel amateurish and like it could have used another editing pass to cut down on word count. I feel like if Chris Avellone were to pop into this thread he'd probably agree with me on this. Torment strikes me as written by a guy who reads more than he writes, and game masters more than either. The issue with that is neither of those really give a whole lot of experience or insight into prose. However, they give insight into other things, and those are where the strengths of PS:T's writing lie.
  1. Torment shows a great deal of knowledge of its own medium. The way it fucks around with the basic mechanics of death and does it *well* is very impressive. Unlike when I've played Bioware games, I don't remember any times when playing Planescape:Torment where I'm presented a list of dialogue options and it felt like the manner I'd like to respond wasn't listed, or wasn't present in the implicit choice to just kill the guy once I stopped talking to him. Torment understands how players tick, and knows how to use that to get them invested in a story and world that are very different from their expectations. This is no small feat.
  2. Torment's characterization is fucking excellent. Avellone in general is very good at this. Whereas in other games I'll typically remember three characters at most, in Torment the entire main cast is very memorable, as well as some of the secondary cast. Avellone has a very good grasp on dialogue, especially on how to convey a pretty incredible range of different character voices. Some of the main cast do receive more development than others, compare Grace, Morte, and Dak'kon to Ignus and Vhailor. However, all characters are well characterized and voiced, even if some characters get much more writing than others. On top of this, tying it in with the sheer number of options present in dialogue is a very impressive feat.
  3. Avellone knows how to pace an interactive plot and mystery very well. Most games just railroad you through the core story with the player having no effect on it. Maybe with some sidequests, but they're completely ancillary to the main plot. Torment slams you with a great opening to get you invested, then drip feeds you with new clues and information with just enough frequency to keep you intrigued, without demystifying itself with massive exposition dumps. On top of the main story thread, there are tons of sidequests that frequently tie into the main plot and provide clues, and the main plot will recognize whether or not you've received that information. PS:T is a very well crafted mystery, especially in the first half, and I think it doesn't get enough credit for that.
  4. Finally, the thing that elevates PS:T over most games of its type is how well it uses theme. All the stuff on the power of belief, regret, the capacity for individuals to change, the importance of death, etc. Planescape: Torment asks a lot of very heavy questions, ties them into its mechanics, and, most importantly, lets the player answer those questions instead of answering those questions for them. This is the most important thing PS:T does, and what sets it apart from so many other games in the genre. It asks all these big questions, let's the player answer them for themselves, and engages with them on good faith regardless of answer, all while blending these questions into the mechanics themselves.
Yeah, Torment's prose is obviously written by someone lacking the experience to really pull off something with its word count. But it does so many other things well that we're willing to forgive it for mediocre prose. "Writing" is such a broad fucking quality that contains so many things that saying something's "writing" sucks without delineating that means your complaint says nothing. Torment's prose is mediocre, but every other part of its writing is fucking phenomenal.

In conclusion, your gay.
 
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TheHeroOfTime

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what the fuck i mean i never usually get into the crpg forum and now i tried and i saw this shit. what the fuck is wrong with you fuckin morons
 

ItsChon

Resident Zoomer
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
The fact that no tag has been awarded yet is indicative of the slipping standards of moderation on this shit forum.
 
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Codex Year of the Donut
Unlike when I've played Bioware games, I don't remember any times when playing Planescape:Torment where I'm presented a list of dialogue options and it felt like the manner I'd like to respond wasn't listed, or wasn't present in the implicit choice to just kill the guy once I stopped talking to him.
eobizq.jpeg
 

Kev Inkline

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A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Starting threads like this:
hey-look-at-uqmqd7.jpg

Paradise Lost had bad writing BECAUSE it was trying to imitate Inferno. Paradise Regained is an improvement because it toned down the pretentious faux-intellectualism of Paradise Lost and focused more on believable dialogue.

Paradise Lost sold like shit because it was full of mundane and poorly written dialog (and the layout was fucked too). It wasn't until more than a centuries later that hipsters started pretending it was an underrated gem.
 
Joined
Mar 29, 2007
Messages
4,548
In all seriousness, verbose dialog and prose sucks in computer RPGs. I don't know how Planescape got away with it, because it's the worst offender of superfluous pretentious writing.

I wasn't a big fan of the writing either.

I thought it was way too wordy and tried way too hard to be philosophical and existential.

The game world and characters I did like.
 

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