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Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread

AwesomeButton

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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
I'm having orders of magnitude more fun with Deadfire than with PoE. I like the colonial setting, and I even wish there was more emphasis on discovering unknown cultures and on the conflict between colonizers and colonized, but that would have been a different game, without this whole Eothas distraction :)
 

Grunker

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Dunno which game I like the most now, but I do know that Deadfire feels a million times more "alive" than PoE1 did, thanks to its often concise delivery and more focus on grounded characters (outside of the main plot of course). Besides Gilded Vale and a select few other areas PoE1 did feel pretty dead to me in the realm of its text. Deadfire isn't an overwhelming success in that regard but it still baffles me that anyone would find it more lifeless than PoE1.

(Not counting White March, of course)
 

Turjan

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It's not that deadfire feels more lifeless. It's that both are very lifeless but at least in PoE1 it matches somewhat with the setting and the narrative.
Well, that game has the Grieving Mother to remind you about the plot.
 

Lacrymas

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Pathfinder: Wrath
Finished WM1 today and started working towards act 3 to get my story talents and begin WM2. And 'working' is the right word, the difference in quality between WM and base game really is staggering, base game is mind-numbingly boring and trivial, I have to force myself through it. The companions honestly feel like mercenaries, but mechanically worse, they don't talk much and don't have a lot of banter between themselves. They are really underdeveloped and don't feel like people. That's including Zahua and the Devil. Once you exhaust the (limited) options you have with them, that's it. Once you get to Defiance Bay, the whole game starts to fall apart and only WM is holding it together. Sad.
 

Tigranes

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Just install IE Mod and use F11 to teleport, and use the console to level yourself up? If you hate the base game might as well just skip to WM content.

I'm enjoying my playthrough and about to start WM content, but there is definitely something weird about the Defiance Bay / Chapter 2 content. It's like all the trappings of a good old big city CRPG is there, and some of the story moments should be very cool, but it ends up being very disjointed and underperforming.

Heritage Hill for example has several cool conceits - the first discovery of the soul crunchy factory at work, the scientist turned man-eating zombie, the option to trick some prisoners to getting eaten by said zombie, the long-bitter woman that you have to gently cajole for the crucial info, the parent zombies clawing at their own child's door. And I don't even think it's about writing that is so terrible that it sinks each of those moments into a crater; sometimes the writing is poor, but it's more often between mediocre and decent. It seems to be more about the lack of little touches that put it all together. The scientist-zombie guy feels entirely disconnected from the scene as you deal with the soul factory, the bitter woman is found in some random house that looks like a villager's domicile in Icewind Dale. The little kid with PTSD is a great moment, but the rest of the whole map doesn't support this theme of psychological horror, and so on.

From a murderhobo standpoint, I'm running with a barbarian, rogue and cipher on POTD with -33% XP, and it's a good challenge. My party's more geared towards evasive action - debuffing enemy ACC, riposte, etc. - than carpet-bombing, and it makes me appreciate the strongest aspect of POE combat - how different damage/defence types interact in meaningful ways. Without a Frostseeker ranger or a Slickenspamming wizard or such, you do start to appreciate how your high-deflection rogue can be instakilled by a necrotic lance, how oozes are particularly effective at killing each other when charmed, how you might switch to different weapon types, or pump up different defences for a fight, things like that. (Obviously, the monotonous of enemy mobs within those species varieties remains a problem.)

The obvious problem is that in most cases, playing with a full party and normal XP gain, you're so far ahead of the relative defences curve that you can seemingly attack with anything and everything. Difficulty - both in terms of number pumping and qualitative differences - really is the bane of RPG systems; the problems with the mechanics themselves aside, the mechanics can't even reach their full potential when the power pacing is bad.
 
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aweigh

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Yeah, using IEMod's fast-travel via F11 key is absolutely essential. Wish there was something like it as easy to use for PoE2.

I can't even imagine getting around Cadnua without that F11 teleport function, seriously. Or Def. Bay. Just be sure not to go somewhere you're not supposed to and accidentally break an event and you're golden! It also helps that you can't teleport to areas you haven't visisted yet, prevents doing dumb shit like teleporting to the Maw or whatever.
 

Lacrymas

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The writing in Heritage Hill fails to evoke the idea it wants because there is no context and it's crammed with too many differing types of horror tropes. There isn't enough time to build up anything and it comes out as a collection of ideas. I'd say the whole game is like that. And even when there is enough time, like with Thaos, they fail to make him compelling.
 

AwesomeButton

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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
There isn't enough time to build up anything and it comes out as a collection of ideas.
This applies to nearly all of the writing intended to draw an image of an area or region in both PoEs.

I was just reading up on the recent Greek-Russian grudge over Ukraine's church, and it occurred to me that Dragon Age Origins did so much better in depicting the history of religion and religious institutions in its fantasy setting than Obsidian with all the "loredumps", really reading like copy-pasted text from design documents. That's also an illustration of the same trend - in so many little details in PoE and Deadfire, you can see how a designer just pasted text into the conversation editor, without a deeper understanding of what purpose this description should serve - to draw a picture of a world, and hint at this world's realities and mechanisms, and thus make the player care about his characters' involvement and actions in it.
 

Tigranes

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Lacrymas - more or less. It's a pity because the very first time I played, I was so taken in by the opening - the introduction to Gilded Vale is very cool, the tree, the bells, the dialogue fits very well together. But then the problem starts where, again, the village has in theory all of the different stories that evoke the themes - the Hollowborn, the feudal lord that has abandoned them - but it doesn't cohere.

I would really like to have seen Raedric's Hold be full of confused and worried underlings as well, perhaps some of the higher-ups gorging themselves on food even as the Vale goes hungry (connecting with the Mill quest), etc. The hold itself is quite decent from a gameplay perspective, but by the time you get to Raedric you've forgotten that he's a feudal lord that just had a miscarriage.

It would have been great if POE1 could have just finished with the end of Act 2, the riots at Defiance Bay, and then the rest of the game bulked up and polished - better faction intrigue, more hollowborn related shit, more scenes of Zika-like freak babies, superstitious people wanting to burn and hang the 'infected' people, etc.
 
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aweigh

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dude i don't know, try pressing f10 or f12 or f9 or google the IEMod website or nexus page, it's not a secret or anything. It's in the mod's instructions.
 

Lacrymas

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Pathfinder: Wrath
It would have been great if POE1 could have just finished with the end of Act 2, the riots at Defiance Bay, and then the rest of the game bulked up and polished - better faction intrigue, more hollowborn related shit, more scenes of Zika-like freak babies, superstitious people wanting to burn and hang the 'infected' people, etc.

I vaguely remember making the same observation. The third act is too much and it spreads the content too thin. Even then, they could've done more to connect everything better. I don't think a lack of editor is an excuse.
 

IHaveHugeNick

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Biggest crime of the first game is they placed all the good content right at the start. You start out with a massive nostalgia hard-on and only continue to go limp as the game goes on.
 

Tigranes

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It would have been great if POE1 could have just finished with the end of Act 2, the riots at Defiance Bay, and then the rest of the game bulked up and polished - better faction intrigue, more hollowborn related shit, more scenes of Zika-like freak babies, superstitious people wanting to burn and hang the 'infected' people, etc.

I vaguely remember making the same observation. The third act is too much and it spreads the content too thin. Even then, they could've done more to connect everything better. I don't think a lack of editor is an excuse.

I believe someone commented about how if they could do it all over again with no stretch goal requirements, Od Nua wouldn't be 15 levels and Twin Elms would have been cut.

In an ideal world, Od Nua would have had no artificial level requirement, alllowing the same content to be packed into a fewer, bigger, more complex levels, and White March would have provided the Twin Elms equivalent.

Nobody knew back then what the hell they were doing with stretch goals. Obsidian chose to actually try and meaningfully deliver on everything, some others chose to cut stuff or put up a Potemkin village - I don't even know which is better, to be honest. It was just a messy process.
 

eXalted

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dude i don't know, try pressing f10 or f12 or f9 or google the IEMod website or nexus page, it's not a secret or anything. It's in the mod's instructions.
Is this the Ctrl+J thingie that teleports the party under your cursor?

Nobody knew back then what the hell they were doing with stretch goals. Obsidian chose to actually try and meaningfully deliver on everything, some others chose to cut stuff or put up a Potemkin village - I don't even know which is better, to be honest. It was just a messy process.
If they knew what they were doing, they wouldn't have implemented the Stronghold feature. Clearly, they didn't have the time or idea what to do with it. The game would have only won if features like that were cut out.
 

IHaveHugeNick

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Ship combat sucks, but as a whole the ship system is much more better integrated into the game. At least it gives you the reason to spend money on it. Even if it's mostly superficial because to kill every enemy ship all you need is 4 cannons and a starter sloop.

Stronghold was just pointless filler altogether.
 

Tigranes

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Ignoring the stronghold completely except for the few landmark events works just fine, by the way. I just build the Warden place for the bounties, and ignore the rest.
 

Quillon

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For all the shit the POE's stronghold got, it turned out much better than Deadfire's ship combat (which nobody even asked for)

Naw, only good thing about the stronghold was the later added storyline. And only bad thing about shipronghold is its combat which is a big bad thing :P And whole ship/pirate stuff is underutilized IMO, tho whole game is littered with underutilized themes.
 
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Sacred82

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you don't have to ask people about ship combat in an RPG. Ship combat > ass > tits.


Doesn't matter if it sucks mechanically or it's monotonous. Assigning your 'beloved companions' to die in a corner of some barge like expendable humanoid resources and then going pew pew means fun in spades.
 

2house2fly

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They should really have made it so party members could have crew roles on the ship too. I'm trying to mod that in
 

Prime Junta

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For all the shit the POE's stronghold got, it turned out much better than Deadfire's ship combat (which nobody even asked for)

EVENTUALLY

The items you get from the stronghold adventures are cool, though.

That Helwax Mold is some great stuff.

I broke the game by cloning Spelltongue and giving both to Maneha. She pretty much soloed Concelhaut on PotD.
 

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