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Game News Pillars of Eternity II Fig Update #40: Multiclassing Revisited

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Tags: J.E. Sawyer; Obsidian Entertainment; Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire

Because of Gamescom, their recent media campaign, and perhaps other reasons we're not aware of, it's taken Obsidian a longer time than originally anticipated to release the Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire multiclassing update they promised in last month's Fig update. But today it's finally here, and it's an important update indeed, for it reveals that Josh Sawyer has made the decision to scrap his original plans for 3E-style multiclassing and move to an AD&D-style system where both classes are selected at character creation. The reasons for this are typically Sawyery ones, but perhaps the system is complex enough as it is. Join Josh and his loyal apprentices as they explore its depths in the update's accompanying video, which also includes a look at the new character creation UI and gameplay footage showing various multiclass builds in action.



Our original design for multiclassing was based on D&D 3.X's approach, where players pick classes level-by-level. You could build a character as a wizard for 4 levels, then add 2 levels of fighter, then switch back to wizard for 3 levels, and so on. Because 3.X multiclassing has some mechanical problems with how spellcasters progress (barring certain prestige classes like the Mystic Theurge), I designed a system that separated each class' power source advancement from its level advancement. It was designed to create a more reliable advancement curve for each class' abilities. It more-or-less succeeded at that, but we noted some problems early on, including after the announcement:
  • People had a difficult time understanding the relationship between individual levels and power source progression.
  • Selecting powers worked pretty well if you knew exactly what you were doing, but you could easily wind up with casts per encounter from levels of spells you had no spells for (e.g. 2 third level casts but no third level spells).
  • There were some shortcomings with building characters level by level in different orders.
  • Displaying power source progression in the UI was either confusing or took up an inordinate amount of space.
After talking things over with the other system designers, we discussed what the most important aspects of multiclassing were.
  • Allowing people to realize hybrid class character concepts. "I want to be a fighter and a wizard."
  • Keeping the overall power of the character competitive with single-class characters. The character should be viable. It's okay if it winds up over- or a little under-powered compared to a single-class character as long as it's not fundamentally weak.
  • Allowing players to emphasize one aspect of the hybrid more than others. "I'm a fighter and a wizard, but more of a wizard."
The original design allowed the first and the last aspects, but the middle aspect suffered because of the high degree of flexibility. It was still easy to make non-viable characters. A non-viable character can be part of a viable party, but still feels bad to play. The high degree of flexibility also strained the first aspect, the basic character concept. A character with 18 levels in fighter and 2 levels in rogue is less of a character concept and more of a strategic build choice.

I went back to the drawing board to revisit an idea I had around the same time as the original design, which was based on AD&D 2nd Edition-style multiclassing, where the player chooses to opt into multiclassing at character creation instead of selecting classes level-by-level. In such systems, the core concept is established from the beginning. A player who says, "I want to be a fighter and a wizard," can be that (a battlemage) from the beginning instead of picking one class and then alternating to the other later on. Progression is also easier to understand from the beginning as access to abilities and the increase of their power is consistent from multiclass to multiclass. A fighter/rogue (swashbuckler) gains access to 2nd level abilities for both classes at 4th level, as does a priest/monk (contemplative), barbarian/chanter (howler), and druid/ranger (beastmaster).

In a strict sense, the new system allows for less overall flexibility, but multiclass characters now get two abilities each time they hit a new power level, one from each class. This means that a multiclass character starts with more abilities and will always have more abilities than a single-class character of the same level. However, multiclass characters get access to each power level later than a single-class character and their abilities progress in power at a slower rate. A wizard has access to Fireball at 5th level, but a battlemage (fighter/wizard) does not gain access until 7th level.

A multiclass character also uses the average of their classes' base health and defenses. If one class begins with 48 health and the other begins with 30, the multiclass will start with 39 health. If one class gains 14 health per level and the other gains 10 per level, the multiclass will gain 12 per level.

In actual playtesting, multiclass characters have terrific flexibility even though they lag power-wise compared to their single-class counterparts. In my personal experience, they are a lot of fun to play and there is a huge amount of variety to how a multiclass character can be built even before subclasses are taken into account.

Subclasses add an additional dimension to character conception and development. As in our original design, players are allowed to choose a subclass for each of their classes. The only classes that are required to have a subclass are paladin and priest. Subclasses all have trade-offs, though some subclasses change the core playstyle of the class more than others. A sharpshooter plays similarly to the pure ranger, but emphasizes the ranged aspect more and suffers more in melee. A stalker needs to stay close to their animal companion to avoid penalties and take advantage of the subclass' melee-oriented benefits. A ghost lodge ranger plays much differently from the pure ranger because their animal companion is only present as a spirit summoned in combat. There are very few restrictions on multiclassing combinations. Only a few paladin orders and priest deities are restricted from combining for mechanical reasons (i.e., contradictory Dispositions that affect their abilities). Otherwise, the player is free to combine classes as they see fit.

The full update includes a list of all the multiclass titles and descriptions of each class's subclasses. Those of you who are unhappy with this change might be glad to learn that the new system will still allow you to emphasize one class over the other via ability selection on level-up. The next Deadfire update, coming in a few weeks, will be another social media feature compilation.
 

Valtiel

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Honestly laughed hard here
774a0cedbe850f837e1430b74cdf7edd.png
 

Shadenuat

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aka Sawyer fails at balancing new neverwinter nights and just reverts to AD&D 2 edition he and other kewl nu Dungeon Masters hate.

3:20 I am playing as that.
I hope now I get more unique dialogue lines than 1.

Watching these unique abilities just makes it more obvious how better game would be turn based.
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
Very enjoyable vid!

Btw...
Is that a pipboy at 4:29?
And that's Tim Cain at 0:26.

They are playing with our minds.
 

HanoverF

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Messages
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MCA Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Codex USB, 2014 Divinity: Original Sin 2
I'd appreciate their walk and talk more if it was properly lit.

Game is looking leaps and bounds ahead of the first, hope they can pull it off.

:littlemissfun:
 

slowtard

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Count Slowtard, for one, very offended that all members of the marching posse are white folks!

So when you're near me, darling can't you hear me
S. O. S.

It is surprising they think exclusion is acceptable in today's world. They might as well be carrying torches (& a noose)!

The love you gave me, nothing else can save me
S. O. S.
 

Iznaliu

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Messages
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I ques devs got wild idea that players like to know what they can build.

There was actually a lot of demand for something like this in PoE1. It's definitely possible that they developed the idea independently of Owlcat.
 

Tavernking

Don't believe his lies
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"This bear crazy beastmaster shifts into his bear form before fighting alongside his bear companion"

I wonder what else they do together besides fighting...? Uh, I'm wondering for lore purposes of course.
 

*-*/\--/\~

Cipher
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That picture is the complete opposite of clickbait, it effectively prevented me from clicking the video. Eew.
 

MicoSelva

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Is that the style of PoE2 KS updates (I have not watched the previous ones)? Or is Josh just channeling Swen now to show (fake?) his enthusiasm for the game?

Anyway, I approve. I honestly thought it was pretty funny.

As for multiclassing - more abilities at the cost of not getting the highest-level ones seems like a reasonable solution, but I still expect 18 months of balancing patches after release, so I will not get too attached to any ideas presented here.
 

Diggfinger

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Belgium
Very funny, like Sawyer's style of videos.

Graphics looks amazing.
Hope this will do well in the wake of Divinity's success, but still have its own unique flavor.
Anyway, off to playing Fallout of Nevada (ENG translation) :cool:
 

Perkel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
15,810
+5% damage per wound

as sub class "meaningful" trait as only trait.

Sawyer, Sawyer never changes.

------------------------
------------------------

Can't wait for other meaningful traits for subclasses:

Inquisitor:
- +1% to spell resistance

Sharpshooter:
- +6% to damage with long range weapons

Wild Berserker:
- You can summon rabbit for 3 seconds once per day.

Kensai:
- Ability: Kai - once per 10 hours of real time gameplay you can use this ability to roll max damage for 30 seconds

Wild Mage:
- There is 0,00000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 % chance for unpredictable effect of spell you cast.

GOD OF DESTRUCTION HIDDEN KIT AFTER YOU BEAT GAME WITH ONLY ONE HAND AND ALL CHARS on 1HP each:
- 10% to all damage
- 2% to run speed
- +1 to chosen stat
 

Prime Junta

Guest
+5% damage per wound

as sub class "meaningful" trait as only trait.

At higher levels it's quite easy to rack up, say, 10 wounds. That's +50% damage. That's not minor.
 

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